Morrissey's views on black people and music...

[L'Estrange]

> In a 1986 Interview...

> Moz: "Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music
> in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of
> black supremacy... There is a line when defense of one's race
> becomes an attack on another race and, because of black history
> and oppression, we realise quite clearly that there has to be a
> very strong defence. But I think it becomes very extreme
> sometimes."
> "But, ultimately, I don't have very cast iron opinions on
> black music other than black modern music which I detest. I
> detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all
> those records in the Top 40 - Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I
> think they're vile in the extreme. In essence this music doesn't
> say anything whatsoever."

> Interviewer: But it does, it does. What it says can't
> necessarily be verbalised easily. It doesn't seek to change the
> world like rock music by speaking grand truths about politics,
> sex and the human condition. It works at a much more subtle
> level - at the level of the body and the shared abandon of the
> dancefloor. It won't change the world, but it's been said it may
> well change the way you walk through the world.

> Moz: "I don't think there's any time anymore to be subtle
> about anything, you have to get straight to the point. Obviously
> to get on Top Of The Pops these days, one has to be, by law,
> black. I think something political has occurred among Michael
> Hurl and his friends

I've visited the states a number of times in the past and i do envy the choice that you have in
radio stations. Whilst in New York i heard "Christine" by The House of Love, "Desiire" by Talk Talk
"What she Said" from Rank.....then i returned home to the trite that is offered by UK stations.
At the time i thought it was poor(1988) but now...Where do i begin, in Manchester where i live we have the national stations(radio 1,2etc & Virgin)
None of these give time to indie music, with the exception of radio 1 - a couple of late night shows.
Local stations offer less challenging records (there is also only 9 records in the building!), there are
dedicated stations that play black music. I can understand where Morrissey is coming from when he cites this as racist.
Radio 1 plays music from across the board, but the powerful black lobby means that as well as the dedicated dance/club
shows the other Dj's play dance tracks also. To say you dislike black music is paramount to rascism in todays Britain - Morrissey will know this only too well.
I'm angry that here in Manchester home of The Smiths , Joy Division,James,New Order,Stone Roses etc that there is NO platform for this music. I'm pissed that
The all new Hard Rock Cafe that opened in Manchester 2 months ago has crowd drawing exhibits from Tina Turner & Jacko but no mention of Manchesters legacy.
It's perverse!
All this because when i turned my radio on last night in the car all i could get was channels playing "Brupp! Brump! Brupp! Brump!" and i didn't have a tape in the car
to play. .

 

[suzanne]

Re: i couldnt help but say a little something...

> i haven't been here in a couple days and it seems like i missed
> a good thread. i was prepared to perch myself atop my soapbox
> and rant about racial stereotypes but thankfully i dont have to,
> for the most part people here seem to have some sense. my
> observation has been in that in urban music (identifing it by
> race no longer has the relevence it once did) tends to be
> motivated by the rythmn of the song. the words are arbitrary as
> that is not the immediate goal of the artist, a point well made
> by the respective heritage of either genre. it's the flow of
> what artists like eminem do, not what they say that makes it
> good. god knows how i wish he would talk about something else
> and prove it, maybe he'll grown up and do it who knows. i do
> think he's contrary just to be contrary(i've my own little
> theory on that.) and, that throws into question his actual
> skill. unfortuneatly crap sells, and it is the record labels
> jobs to know that and produce as much of it as the industry can
> stand. fact is people who are thirsty will eventually drink the
> sand, the bad thing is when they cease to know the difference.
> since morrissey has no intention of dancing(at least he
> shouldnt, i've seen it and it's wrong)the idea of him relating
> to anything remotely primal in nature doesnt sit well with what
> i know of him( little but enough for me). the point of music(and
> art in general) as far as i can see is to create a bridge
> between the conscience and the subconscience, and what would get
> one person across doesnt apply to everyone else. i just think
> that he's biased by his own preferences(who isn't) and is prone
> to excessive generalizations.

What in the world????

Have you heard any of Moby's stuff? He's a white guy who choses words for their sound. Singers chosen for the texture they can bring to the song. Notice most of the elecronica artists do not "sing" their own music and that's because they round up singers for a song to bring a specific sound to it in the way you would pick up a Tuba for a sousa march. Nothing of what he writes is deep. Yet, if you look at his and most electronica type artists, they chose their singers and lyrics for the exact points you prescribe. Sounds and effects.

so, it's not strictly rap, and I object to the term "urban" on the grounds that it's a euphemism for the same thing.

AND rap does have a lyrical point. Many rap songs are political in nature, or relate the life story of who wrote the words. Reggae is political in nature. "stand up for your rights" and all that.


yah

 

[WorkingGirl]

Re: i couldnt help but say a little something...

> i haven't been here in a couple days and it seems like i missed
> a good thread. i was prepared to perch myself atop my soapbox
> and rant about racial stereotypes but thankfully i dont have to,
> for the most part people here seem to have some sense. my
> observation has been in that in urban music (identifing it by
> race no longer has the relevence it once did) tends to be
> motivated by the rythmn of the song. the words are arbitrary as
> that is not the immediate goal of the artist, a point well made
> by the respective heritage of either genre. it's the flow of
> what artists like eminem do, not what they say that makes it
> good. god knows how i wish he would talk about something else
> and prove it, maybe he'll grown up and do it who knows. i do
> think he's contrary just to be contrary(i've my own little
> theory on that.) and, that throws into question his actual
> skill. unfortuneatly crap sells, and it is the record labels
> jobs to know that and produce as much of it as the industry can
> stand. fact is people who are thirsty will eventually drink the
> sand, the bad thing is when they cease to know the difference.
> since morrissey has no intention of dancing(at least he
> shouldnt, i've seen it and it's wrong)the idea of him relating
> to anything remotely primal in nature doesnt sit well with what
> i know of him( little but enough for me). the point of music(and
> art in general) as far as i can see is to create a bridge
> between the conscience and the subconscience, and what would get
> one person across doesnt apply to everyone else. i just think
> that he's biased by his own preferences(who isn't) and is prone
> to excessive generalizations.

I thought what you have said is excellent, good points, well made.

I too like the poetry of well produced Rap, one of my all time favourites, "Close to the Edge" (Grandmaster Flash), and the group the Disoposable Heroes of HipHopCrasy were very under-valued.

The points regarding Morrissey are also valid, we all have our personal likes and dislikes, I would like to think that, by the opportunity for discussion that boards like this create, fixed ideas can be examined and maybe changed.
"Vive la Difference"

WorkingGirlx

 

[WorkingGirl]

Re: i couldnt help but say a little something...

Many rap songs are political
> in nature, or relate the life story of who wrote the words.
> Reggae is political in nature. "stand up for your
> rights" and all that.

This is very true.

But lyrics condoning violence towards people because of sexual preference, Gender or Colour is for me, unacceptable.

WorkingGirlx

 

[WorkingGirl]

Too true...

Radio 2, according to my sister, is the station to listen to, but I can't bring myself to do it....I have this nightmare of me becoming my parents..AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WorkingGirlx

 

[jinxt]

Re: i couldnt help but say a little something...

> What in the world????

> Have you heard any of Moby's stuff? He's a white guy who choses
> words for their sound. Singers chosen for the texture they can
> bring to the song. Notice most of the elecronica artists do not
> "sing" their own music and that's because they round
> up singers for a song to bring a specific sound to it in the way
> you would pick up a Tuba for a sousa march. Nothing of what he
> writes is deep.
Yet, if you look at his and most electronica
> type artists, they chose their singers and lyrics for the exact
> points you prescribe. Sounds and effects.

i didnt say that it only applies to rap music now did i, i said it is a trait that is common in that genre. what i'm discussing is the motive behind the structure of the song not it's validity.

> so, it's not strictly rap, and I object to the term
> "urban" on the grounds that it's a euphemism for the
> same thing.

first off not all urban music is rap, i was using that term as opposed to 'black music' not rap. reason being that this music tends to come from a specific demographic that is no longer characterized by race. in other words the grouping no longer fits the label and a label is exactly what is. one that matter of factly discourages others from exploring different musical tastes.

> AND rap does have a lyrical point. Many rap songs are political
> in nature, or relate the life story of who wrote the words.
> Reggae is political in nature. "stand up for your
> rights" and all that.

the point i was making when i said that the lyrics are arbitrary was not that all lyrics in rap music are inane or incapable of having a social reference or being poetry but rather that it is a variable to be done with as the artist sees fit and that the rythmn is the driving force that distinguishes it from other genres of music.

 

[jinxt]

Re: i couldnt help but say a little something...

> I thought what you have said is excellent, good points, well
> made.

> I too like the poetry of well produced Rap, one of my all time
> favourites, "Close to the Edge" (Grandmaster Flash),
> and the group the Disoposable Heroes of HipHopCrasy were very
> under-valued.

> The points regarding Morrissey are also valid, we all have our
> personal likes and dislikes, I would like to think that, by the
> opportunity for discussion that boards like this create, fixed
> ideas can be examined and maybe changed.
> "Vive la Difference"

> WorkingGirlx

here...here!!

 

[jinxt]

Re: i couldnt help but say a little something...

> Many rap songs are political

> This is very true.

> But lyrics condoning violence towards people because of sexual
> preference, Gender or Colour is for me, unacceptable.

> WorkingGirlx

i agree with you, no doubt. however, that speaks ill of the artist not the genre of muscic they choose to display it. eminem spouting those same lyrics as an operetta wouldnt make it any more palatable, would it?

 

[WorkingGirl]

Re: i couldnt help but say a little something...

Very True, Touche'.

WorkingGirlx

 

[jinxt]

Re: "Rubber Ring"...

> This is funny...

> and I also like Judy Garland...

i dont know where you're at but they just did a miniseries on the book her daughter( the one who isnt liza) wrote about her life. did you happen to catch it?

 

[Somny]

Re: "Rubber Ring"...

> i dont know where you're at but they just did a miniseries on
> the book her daughter( the one who isnt liza) wrote about her
> life. did you happen to catch it?

No. What channel? A cable channel, maybe? I have saw something about her life on tv recently. Too much talent and energy on a fragile person.