Morrissey's views on black people and music...

Discussion in 'General Discussion archive 2001 (read-only)' started by Copeland, Mar 11, 2001.

  1. Copeland

    Copeland Guest

    In a 1986 Interview...

    Moz: "Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of black supremacy... There is a line when defense of one's race becomes an attack on another race and, because of black history and oppression, we realise quite clearly that there has to be a very strong defence. But I think it becomes very extreme sometimes."
    "But, ultimately, I don't have very cast iron opinions on black music other than black modern music which I detest. I detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all those records in the Top 40 - Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I think they're vile in the extreme. In essence this music doesn't say anything whatsoever."

    Interviewer: But it does, it does. What it says can't necessarily be verbalised easily. It doesn't seek to change the world like rock music by speaking grand truths about politics, sex and the human condition. It works at a much more subtle level - at the level of the body and the shared abandon of the dancefloor. It won't change the world, but it's been said it may well change the way you walk through the world.

    Moz: "I don't think there's any time anymore to be subtle about anything, you have to get straight to the point. Obviously to get on Top Of The Pops these days, one has to be, by law, black. I think something political has occurred among Michael Hurl and his friends and there has been a hefty pushing of all these black artists and all this discofied nonsense into the Top 40. I think, as a result, that very aware younger groups that speak for now are being gagged."

    Interviewer: You seem to be saying that you believe that there is some sort of black pop conspiracy being organised to keep white indie groups down.

    Moz: "Yes, I really do."

    I think these comments would be considered radical and very offensive in today's more "politically correct" cultural environment. But I truly respect that Morrissey had the bravery to explore this topic. We can conclude that the Smiths were making no special effort to reach out to blacks. I think Morrissey figured that his music was there to be appreciated, regardless of skin color.
     
  2. Somny

    Somny Guest

    Re: You never stop to amuse us.
     
  3. Copeland

    Copeland Guest

    And another thought on this issue.....

    You have to wonder what Morrissey, given his earlier views, feels about rap music. I imagine he hates it. I do remember recently reading an interview with Yoko Ono in which she stated that if her late husband were still alive today, he would probably be exploring rap music as a medium, as well as probably working with Eminem. I thought that was a terribly cruel thing for me to have to read.
     
  4. Somny

    Somny Guest

    Re: I am so obtuse!!! Can anybody clean up my ears, please?

    > I think these comments would be considered radical and very
    > offensive in today's more "politically correct"
    > cultural environment. But I truly respect that Morrissey had the
    > bravery to explore this topic. We can conclude that the Smiths
    > were making no special effort to reach out to blacks. I think
    > Morrissey figured that his music was there to be appreciated,
    > regardless of skin color.

    You are talking about an interview in "1986". Do you remember WHY he mentioned THIS topic???

    About the "american" black music I just can say that's the most amazing thing. Without that black music, Moz wouldn't be here, dressed like ELVIS. The "subtle" Moz wasn't so Subtle this time, was he?

    Sometimes I wonder: what Morrissey thinks when his fans get "things" from the ancient era just to amuse us?

    This is a very delicate topic, Copeland...
     
  5. Somny

    Somny Guest

    Re: It hurts... my ear...

    > You have to wonder what Morrissey, given his earlier views,
    > feels about rap music. I imagine he hates it. I do remember
    > recently reading an interview with Yoko Ono in which she stated
    > that if her late husband were still alive today, he would
    > probably be exploring rap music as a medium, as well as probably
    > working with Eminem. I thought that was a terribly cruel thing
    > for me to have to read.

    I'm sure that YOKO knows more about Lennon than you (not that I like rap, or Eminem...by the way I hate)...

    But when you talk about black music, the only thing you are able to think is "rap"???????
     
  6. WorkingGirl

    WorkingGirl Guest

    Re: I am so obtuse!!! Can anybody clean up my ears, please?

    > About the "american" black music I just can say that's
    > the most amazing thing. Without that black music, Moz wouldn't
    > be here, dressed like ELVIS.

    I understand what your saying and you're right in some repects.

    I think however that Blues and Jazz are as dissimilar to todays Rap Genre as Country and Western to Grunge.

    Music is Music, black or white and if it sucks, it sucks.
     
  7. Kirstie

    Kirstie Guest

    Re: And another thought on this issue.....

    > You have to wonder what Morrissey, given his earlier views,
    > feels about rap music. I imagine he hates it. I do remember
    > recently reading an interview with Yoko Ono in which she stated
    > that if her late husband were still alive today, he would
    > probably be exploring rap music as a medium, as well as probably
    > working with Eminem. I thought that was a terribly cruel thing
    > for me to have to read.

    I think Yoko is incredibly mentally unstable to say such things. I can't believe it. I don't care how well she knew him that is so wrong.

    Kirstie
     
  8. Kirstie

    Kirstie Guest

    Re: I am so obtuse!!! Can anybody clean up my ears, please?

    > Music is Music, black or white and if it sucks, it sucks.

    well said. I love both black artists and white artists but skin color is not what matters. It is the music that matters. I don't think when I listen to Bitches Brew, "This was done by a black man" I think-"I love this, it's amazing-this part here sums up my emotion quite nicely." and when I listen to Low's Things I lost in the fire (Yes i am going to mention this again because I love it) I tend to think the same thing even though it's a different style and the race of the artist(s) are different. It's how music reaches you in that special place that counts.

    Kirstie
     
  9. Somny

    Somny Guest

    Re: And another thought on this issue.....

    > I think Yoko is incredibly mentally unstable to say such things.
    > I can't believe it. I don't care how well she knew him that is
    > so wrong.

    > Kirstie

    Of course. She is wrong. She lived with him for a long time and had 2 kids, but she is wrong, YOU are right. By the way, LENNON was mentally unstable.
     
  10. Somny

    Somny Guest

    Re: I am so obtuse!!! Can anybody clean up my ears, please?

    > well said. I love both black artists and white artists but skin
    > color is not what matters. It is the music that matters. I don't
    > think when I listen to Bitches Brew, "This was done by a
    > black man" I think-"I love this, it's amazing-this
    > part here sums up my emotion quite nicely." and when I
    > listen to Low's Things I lost in the fire (Yes i am going to
    > mention this again because I love it) I tend to think the same
    > thing even though it's a different style and the race of the
    > artist(s) are different. It's how music reaches you in that
    > special place that counts.

    Ok, right, but we can't forget that rock & roll is a combination of black music with other genres. How about Led Zeppelin, Elvis, Rolling Stones, etc...? Where our dear Moz would be right now without those? reading Oscar Wilde in Manchester, maybe?
     
  11. Rick & Bruce

    Rick & Bruce Guest

    Now, so far as we know, 'Paperboy' by the Marvelettes is one of Morrissey's all-time favourite records. Morrissey doesn't dislike all black people, just the ones who make crap records. He'll also dislike loads of white people in who release crap tunes...

    I loved the Trojan tunes that he used on th e intro tapes for his gigs - ha there you go, more black music, reggae in fact.


    [​IMG]
     
  12. Kirstie

    Kirstie Guest

    Re: And another thought on this issue.....

    > Of course. She is wrong. She lived with him for a long time and
    > had 2 kids, but she is wrong, YOU are right. By the way, LENNON
    > was mentally unstable.

    ok i see your point but the thought of Lennon being with those people is very unrealistic and something I cannot believe. From what I have heard, he seemed more intrigued by stuff like the B-52s (specifically "Rock Lobster" before he died. he wanted to be on the cuttinge edge like that not with Eminem. I mean, come on-can you honestly picture Eminem and John Lennon together. They are at odds in very principle and Lennon wouldn't go the Elton John route (referring to the grammy's)

    I realize Lennon was unstable but he wasn't stupid and he was brilliant when it came to music. he would have spotted the stupidity and ignorance in Eminem right away. It's hard for me to come to terms with the fact that Yoko said that but I just can't believe it. It doesn't make any sense.

    But anyway, there's no use speculating what one person would or would not have done if they had lived 20 years after they were shot. Noone knows-certainly not me and certainly not Yoko either. (If my husband were to die today, I certainly wouldn't be able to tell you what he would be doing twenty years from now) It's anyone's guess.

    Kirstie
     
  13. Somny

    Somny Guest

    Re: And another thought on this issue.....

    I can't picture Lennon and Eminem together, even in my worst nightmares. Eminem is exactly the opposite of everything Lennon said or did. But Yoko is an artist, so I suspect that she has special reasons to say what she said (if she really said that, I mean).

    The only word I have for this Eminem is: disturbing. How can a person who used to sing and say "peace and love", "give peace a chance", "all you need is love" could work with him? So I also don't believe that Lennon could, but if you think of rap in general, as a medium for art, maybe Lennon would apreciate that.

    But it seems ridiculous to say what kind of atitude lennon would have during these days. I just think that Yoko has been hated during all those years, and people seldom stop to think if she was all that bad. I have saw something on tv recently about her, and she is a sad person, and after Lennon's death she just try to survive. Ok, she had another man then, but Lennon is still her only love.

    I ever felt that Lennon was a little hipocrytic. I mean, it is so easy singing "power to the people" when You have lots of dollars in your pillow. Lennon never was my favourite beatle, but George.
     
  14. Somny

    Somny Guest

    Re: "Rubber Ring"...

    > Now, so far as we know, 'Paperboy' by the Marvelettes is one of
    > Morrissey's all-time favourite records. Morrissey doesn't
    > dislike all black people, just the ones who make crap records.
    > He'll also dislike loads of white people in who release crap
    > tunes...

    I never thought that he deslikes black people actually. By the way, when Morrissey hates something, he has his reasons and he can be very hard, but I will not quote him here.

    > I loved the Trojan tunes that he used on th e intro tapes for
    > his gigs - ha there you go, more black music, reggae in fact.

    I don't know so much about black music, and I'm not here exactly to defend that. I just think that music is more than The Smiths or Morrissey. Some of the artists I love are Louis Armstrong, Billie Holliday, sarah Vaugham, Nat King Cole, Ray Charles, Lenny Kravitz, etc... The pain and the poetry of Billie's voice is something I can't compare to any other. Not because she was black, but because she was really inspiring and great. On the other hand, pay attention on Doris Day's voice and you will find some special qualities that just Doris had. Not because she was white, but because she was great.


    [​IMG]
     
  15. WorkingGirl

    WorkingGirl Guest

    Re: "Rubber Ring"...

    Sorry Somny, DORIS DAY!!!!!!!

    (Only Joking)

    WorkingGirlx
     
  16. WorkingGirl

    WorkingGirl Guest

    Re: And another thought on this issue.....

    Absolutely.

    John Lennon spoke out against War and promoted Love and Justice.

    Eminem lyrics are at the other end of this spectrum.

    WorkingGirlx
     
  17. Somny

    Somny Guest

    Re: "Rubber Ring"...

    > Sorry Somny, DORIS DAY!!!!!!!

    > (Only Joking)

    > WorkingGirlx

    Sorry for what? Are you shocked? Yeah, I like her... a lot actually.
    xxx
     
  18. jinxt

    jinxt Guest

    Re: "Rubber Ring"...

    it's okay i like connie francis...
     
  19. Somny

    Somny Guest

    Re: "Rubber Ring"...

    > it's okay i like connie francis...

    This is funny...

    and I also like Judy Garland...
     
  20. jinxt

    jinxt Guest

    i couldnt help but say a little something...

    i haven't been here in a couple days and it seems like i missed a good thread. i was prepared to perch myself atop my soapbox and rant about racial stereotypes but thankfully i dont have to, for the most part people here seem to have some sense. my observation has been in that in urban music (identifing it by race no longer has the relevence it once did) tends to be motivated by the rythmn of the song. the words are arbitrary as that is not the immediate goal of the artist, a point well made by the respective heritage of either genre. it's the flow of what artists like eminem do, not what they say that makes it good. god knows how i wish he would talk about something else and prove it, maybe he'll grown up and do it who knows. i do think he's contrary just to be contrary(i've my own little theory on that.) and, that throws into question his actual skill. unfortuneatly crap sells, and it is the record labels jobs to know that and produce as much of it as the industry can stand. fact is people who are thirsty will eventually drink the sand, the bad thing is when they cease to know the difference. since morrissey has no intention of dancing(at least he shouldnt, i've seen it and it's wrong)the idea of him relating to anything remotely primal in nature doesnt sit well with what i know of him( little but enough for me). the point of music(and art in general) as far as i can see is to create a bridge between the conscience and the subconscience, and what would get one person across doesnt apply to everyone else. i just think that he's biased by his own preferences(who isn't) and is prone to excessive generalizations.
     
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