Morrissey's use of the Union Jack WAS insensitive and racist

[jjxb]

Re: Nothing to do with Moz. But I still think the Union Jack is about English oppression.

> Arhhh defeated again.... what a typical University bod. You can only
> relate to what people have told you and thoughts are just things other
> people have. People like you make me sick with your pretence at
> intelligent discussions. You know nothing... seen nothing and have been
> nowhere but you know the f***ing lot!! Boy with a floppy cock – And stupid
> at that!!!!

Umm, some points:

(1) Discussion is not about "victory" or "defeat" you illiterate simpleton, it is about exactly that - discussion.

(2) In no way do your claims that "I know nothing" that "I can only relate to what people have told me" flow, in any way, from the previous point in this thread of discussion. I will be happy to take your critique on board, but the conclusions are based on nothing that has preceded this post!

 

[Rain Man]

Re: Morrissey's use of the Union Jack WAS NOT insensitive and racist you freak.

Yes that is totally correct... I was there.. you were not. I know what happened... you do not... so shut the f*** up.

 

[Derby Lunatic Fringe]

Re: Just f*** Off...Christ, this one's worse than Andy Ison

> Fair enough, thank God we finally got to a semblence of a response to the
> original post through all the insults etc. Now, let's take your point and
> move onto the other point I made: using the argument you have just given
> (reclaiming the flag), does that mean that it would be equally acceptable
> and heroic of him to hold a large swastika flag? Would that also appeal to
> you?

I repeat, you are the one obsessed with swastikas.
heroic? moz is many things but hardly heroic.
It is now 22 degrees outside, a lovely afternoon and I have a lawn that needs mowing.

I suggest that if find Morrissey such a figure of hate filled, far right menace you might be wise to avoid websites with tell tale names like 'morrissey-solo.com'

 

[jjxb]

I can assure you that swastikas in South and South East Asia have long existed facing BOTH ways

 

[jjxb]

Re: Morrissey's use of the Union Jack WAS NOT insensitive and racist you freak.

> Yes that is totally correct... I was there.. you were not. I know what
> happened... you do not... so shut the f*** up.

Wait - what is "correct"? Are you saying that he did NOT wrap himself in the Union Jack? Were those photos faked?

 

[Rain Man]

Re: Nothing to do with Moz. But I still think the Union Jack is about English oppression.

Look... if you have a valid point... go to the guestbook where I promise I will evaluate your ideas and give a true response without boring all the good people here to tears.... GUESTBOOK okay!!! Both posts. Then more time and thought can be put into the discussion.

 

[jjxb]

Re: Just f*** Off...Christ, this one's worse than Andy Ison

> I repeat, you are the one obsessed with swastikas.
> heroic? moz is many things but hardly heroic.
> It is now 22 degrees outside, a lovely afternoon and I have a lawn that
> needs mowing.

> I suggest that if find Morrissey such a figure of hate filled, far right
> menace you might be wise to avoid websites with tell tale names like
> 'morrissey-solo.com'

The swastika is an example being used to draw an analogy. If you struggle to answer the question I posed in the affirmative, it debases your assertion re: the union jack.

 

[Rain Man]

Re: Morrissey's use of the Union Jack WAS NOT insensitive and racist you freak.

I told you once... post on the guestbook. You are in danger of killing everyone here with your brainwashed views!!!

 

[Billy]

> An NF rally..wasn't it "Madstock"??..I'm no Madness fan but
> isn't it a little rich to be calling ALL their fans fascists or general NF
> supporters? This debate is old now but worthy of discussion quite rightly,
> i still think he was trying to wind the elements of the far right in the
> crowd up. I mean you're talking about somebody who hates royalty and
> writes songs like "sister i'm a poet" for god sake...hardly far
> right fodder. The reaction to him that day proved that, it wasn't a
> celebration...far from it, the NF hate Morrissey and i'm sure the feeling
> is mutual.

> BTW I don't blindly love Morrissey, he's far from perfect after all..but
> who is?

Union 'jack' is offensive, it's a union 'flag'. Only pirates have a 'jack'.

 

[J.R.Hartley]

Least you're open to suggestion, it seems you've hit a nerve here...but i guess Morrissey fans are generally just sick of the same old debates surfacing.
I think Morrissey is just interested in subcultures rather than the actual politics, as in all aspects of society and how people express themselves and generally live....nothing more.

Morrissey is NOT beyond critisism btw
cheers!

 

[King Leer]

And swastikas in England...? It would only matter if Moz Actually used a swastika. Dumb hypothesis.

 

[jjxb]

It is not a hypothesis, but a postulation for analogy. There are hindus and buddhists in the UK.

 

[Divad]

Morrissey did *NOT* wrap himself in the Union Jack. When I've heard this statement in the past (before watching the concert footage with my OWN eyes), I thought he stood with one foot on a speaker and swaddled himself in the flag for a good minute or so while looking out at the crowd and giving knowing looks. He did not USE the flag because he didn't bring the flag onto the stage with him. You can't use a prop that you didn't block into your performance. There was nothing theatrical about his use of the flag. He was just being himself with something that someone else tossed on stage. Can you not feel any empathy for the man? Imagine yourself just speaking to an audience of rapt viewers first. How nervous would you be then? Then imagine yourself singing before an audience that only loves you. How much more nervous? Now imagine yourself singing before an audience mixed up with people who love him and who don't give a shit and who hate him. How would you be faring under these conditions, eh? Not to mention the fact that when Morrissey sings, he does so with great abandon, meaning that he puts himself in greater risk of being beanted by hurled objects. I think the man did NOTHING wrong or foolish or even questionable. For God's sake, he even sings in the song with the flag, "WE WONT't VOTE CONSERVATIVE" What kind of other proofs do you need?? Have you even seen the performance?? I can't think you have, or you wouldn't be out here laying such wild accusations and casting aspersions so heedlessly.

 

[Codreanu]

What I find to be particulary egregious about this lamentable subject is neither Morrissey's flag-draping nor the lyrics commonly cited to underscore his 'fascisistic' proclivaties; The shamefulness is in, rather, the peculair manner of the defence, which accords legitimacy to the accusation: "...You see he did not exactly 'wrap' himself in the flag"; "...but you fail to note the "irony" in 'Bengali in Platforms' which aptly mirrors cultural distortion in the gravity of "The Other".." -The very notion that, in this instance, Morrissey needs to be defended.
Not being english, I have'nt much sense as to the quintessence of british culture, its enduring lineaments, the intangible things of which it is complected. But, there is no way way in hades that such things could be instantiated, nurtured, and enriched through mass immagration, and the morass of multi-culturalism. I fail to see anything unhealthy or immoral in British Nationalism, or the NF for that matter. Wow, love of nationality/culture; preservation of the traditional family; religion; defense of the unborn...sounds like the very epitome of evil to me.
Oh, and the swastika analogy is incommensurable. The adoption of their own flag by British Nationalist's (what nerve!), is in no way similar to the appropriation of a culturaly extrinsic symbol, dispite the pan-aryan pretensions of those responsible.

> Hello,

> I know none of you will agree being blindly in love with the man, but
> Morrissey's use of the Union Jack on stage in front of a NF rally in
> Finsbury Park was ridiculous - at best foolish and insensitive and at
> worst, flirting with facism. The fact of the matter is that the Union Jack
> has been appropriated by the far right in this country, however much
> Britpop tried to reclaim it. It is more a symbol of British nazism, the
> national front and the BNP than it is of being British. It is far too
> simplistic and narrow to say, "oh, other countries wave their flags
> around without it being racist and so why not us?". I mean, I
> smpathise as we should be able to, but other countries haven't had their
> flags approproated in this way.

> Here is a question for you: using the logic that the flag is originally
> the country's flag and not the facists' flag, and therefore despite
> whatever the connotations are associated with it the act of wrapping
> himeself in it were ok - would you have thought it acceptable if Morrissey
> had paraded around in a giant swastika flag in front of that rally? After
> all, the swastika is a hindu symbol of peace and was appropriated by the
> nazis in much the same way as the Union Jack has been appropriated by the
> National Front. I would consider him waltzing around on stage in front of
> NF members with a swastika deeply wrong. And I don't see how it is
> different to him doing it with a Union Jack.