Morrissey vs God

[tender hooligan]

I just wondered....what do you think/know about Moz"s relation with God?I have noticed that he talks about God a lot or he often puts God in his perspective. I know for a fact that he said "I try to believe."
From "Yes i am blind" to "I have forgiven Jesus" ...seems to me that he talks to God a lot and feels angry and demanding towards Jesus.What do you all think?

 

[Kewpie]

It's obvious that his Catholic upbringing still deeply influences his songwriting, although he admits that being an atheist.

Religion is a funny thing. I'm not a religious person and against people who manipulate others using religion. As a matter of fact, so many innocent people are suffering from religious conflicts all over the world at this moment.

Morrissey questions about the existence of god/religion and things involving about it which has produced many great lylics.

Where I come from, basically we worship nature. Human beings are part of nature and we pay respect to it. Our ancestors tried to live in harmoney with nature and many fascinating their efforts are found in the historical facts. However, Japanese monachy made up a myth that their ancestors were gods, therefore the emperor was the god. People in powerful position tried to manipulate civilians which led the terrible war in the last century.

When I fist came to UK an elderly landlady of B&B where we stayed asked I and my friend that our emperor was a good person. We couldn't help burst into laughter because we never thought about it! The emperor/monachy is an symbol, doesn't mean anything to us. Sadly at school nor at home we never discussed about what kind of responsibility the emperor had during the war. I had to thank her to make us think about it for the first time.

Depends on my mood I find Morrissey's songs referring religious theme are very tongue-in-cheek, sometimes poignant. When we're in trouble or depressed we need to turn to someone/thing may help us, in his case it's natural to ask for help (or criticize) to god, I guess.

It's a huge subject and I don't think I can write about my opinion logically.

 

[Danny]

I think he just likes the drama of religious symbolism. I also think he is fond of hyperbole and the outrageous statement. Using religious icons in a tongue in cheek way gets a reaction from people and that's what he's after.

 

[lnathan]

I actually started a thread similar to this a little while ago. I think it's interesting to look at his lyrics from a religious pov. Because I have been wondering if it isn't more about God than about finding love as many seem to think. Look at Pigsty with that in mind. When he says "I turn to you"...is it possible that he's talking about God?
And there's also the symbolism in the fact that the album was recorded in Rome and that he has now settled there.

It's the same old sos
but with brand new broken fortunes
and once again I turn to you
once again I do, I turn to you
It's the same old sos
but with brand new broken fortunes
I am the same underneath
but this you
...you surely knew?
life is a pigsty
life is a pigsty
life is a pigsty
life is a pigsty
life, life is a pigsty
life, life is a pigsty
life, life is a pigsty
life is a pigsty
And if you don't know this, then
what do you know?
every second of my life
I live only live for you
and you can shoot me
and you can throw me off a train
but I still maintain
I still maintain:
life, life is a pigsty
life is a pigsty
And I've been shifting gears all along my life
but I'm still the same underneath
this you surely knew?
I can't reach you
I can't reach you
I can't reach you anymore
Can you please stop time?
can you stop the pain?
I feel too cold
and now I feel too warm again
can you stop this pain?
can you stop this pain?
even now, in the final hour of my life
I'm falling in love again
again
even now, in the final hour of my life
I'm falling in love again
again
again
again
I'm falling in love again
again
again
again.

 

[bikubesong]

Interesting theory, Inathan!

 

[Ambrosia]

I don't think I know him very well, but imo Moz wanna share his faults with God: He has created him(and everything around him), so He's also His fault if he can't settle down, set himself free from pain and find love and happiness. Imo Moz is v. similar to Pasolini (I thought years before he sang: "Pasolini is me"): he asks questions to God and almost would need He understands and justifies his mistakes("Dear God, Please Help Me"). I find his religiousness v. interesting and human and I like that interpretation of "Life is a Pigsty".

 

[lnathan]

I don't think I know him very well, but imo Moz wanna share his faults with God: He has created him(and everything around him), so He's also His fault if he can't settle down, set himself free from pain and find love and happiness. Imo Moz is v. similar to Pasolini (I thought years before he sang: "Pasolini is me"): he asks questions to God and almost would need He understands and justifies his mistakes("Dear God, Please Help Me"). I find his religiousness v. interesting and human and I like that interpretation of "Life is a Pigsty".

No we don't know him. That's why we have to find answers in his lyrics which is such good fun :-D
I like your take on his relation to God. It also shows in the line Dear God, did this kind of thing happen to you? He is making God human. I find that line very intriguing.

I think Pigsty is about him turning to God (can you please stop time? Can you stop the pain?) to save him from the painful physical aspect of life...the pain of falling in love and having physical desires (I feel too cold/and now I feel too warm again) and yet it still has the twist of him givin God a human aspect (and if you don't know this, then/what do you know?)

 

[MrRoboto]

Many of Morrissey's songs are so confessional, I find that this is almost the equivalent of Moz sitting in confession at church and spilling his guts to us, his fans, instead of a priest. His ruminations and observations (throught his lyrics and interviews) indicate an introspective spirit and it would not be a surprise to me if he was, in fact very spiritual (not necessarily religious - these aren't the same thing, IMO).

To take myself as an example, I was brought up with eastern religion and rebelled against the ritualistic aspects of my parents faith during my teen years finding no meaning or peace from them. However, now that I am older, I find that I get much more meaning from the concepts and beliefs of the faith rather than the organized religion which encases it.

Anyway, I digress...all I'm saying is Morrissey sounds like a man who has found some kind of belief system, but this doesn't necessarily have to be related to an organized religion.

 

[tender hooligan]

i also like interpretation of Life is a pigsty.it reaally makes sense

 

[lnathan]

Depends on my mood I find Morrissey's songs referring religious theme are very tongue-in-cheek, sometimes poignant. When we're in trouble or depressed we need to turn to someone/thing may help us, in his case it's natural to ask for help (or criticize) to god, I guess.

It's not natural for everybody. I come from a completely non-religious culture, and believing in God is considered very primitive. So when you are in trouble you are truly lost, there's nothing spiritual to turn to. I often envy religious people and I'm very fascinated by religious symbolism, but no matter what I do I just can't BELIEVE in God, because I was brought up to believe in nothing. I feel that Morrissey is in the comlpetely opposite situation. He tries to free himself from the religious "chains", but he can't completely because it was planted in him as a child.

PS: Sorry for the bad choice of words, my English isn't really good enough for these kind of discussions.

 

[Kewpie]

It's not natural for everybody. I come from a completely non-religious culture, and believing in God is considered very primitive. So when you are in trouble you are truly lost, there's nothing spiritual to turn to. I often envy religious people and I'm very fascinated by religious symbolism, but no matter what I do I just can't BELIEVE in God, because I was brought up to believe in nothing. I feel that Morrissey is in the comlpetely opposite situation. He tries to free himself from the religious "chains", but he can't completely because it was planted in him as a child.

PS: Sorry for the bad choice of words, my English isn't really good enough for these kind of discussions.

I Apolosize my ignorance, lnathan.

I wrote my earlier post so casually and I'm so embarassed with my naivety...now I shut up.

 

[dazzak]

God would win.

 

[andy_fozzy]

I like the Piggy theory!!

Perhaps (like me...)
King Moz would like to believe in God.......

 

[Ambrosia]

No we don't know him. That's why we have to find answers in his lyrics which is such good fun :-D
I like your take on his relation to God. It also shows in the line Dear God, did this kind of thing happen to you? He is making God human. I find that line very intriguing.

I think Pigsty is about him turning to God (can you please stop time? Can you stop the pain?) to save him from the painful physical aspect of life...the pain of falling in love and having physical desires (I feel too cold/and now I feel too warm again) and yet it still has the twist of him givin God a human aspect (and if you don't know this, then/what do you know?)

Well, it's true, almost no-one of us really knows him, but some fans surely know more things about him than I do...Anyway, back to the song. Yeah, right: it seems like Moz wants God to be his friend and party, but sometimes God looks so silent, instead...As to human needs and sorrows, it's what he writes also in "I Have Forgiven Jesus": in the video he's a priest, but he suffers so much 'cause he can't rid himself free from love's desire. He tries to suffocate his feelings, but he can't: they're too deeply rooted and ingrained in his bones. The last line you mention was a bit incomprehensible for me, but this interpretation could explain everything: if Moz is talking to God, that line kind of mocks his omniscience and goodness: "Dear God, if you can't see how cruel is the life you gave us, it's not true you know all or love you so much...Maybe you're just as human as I am and...then why don't you understand me and remit my weakness?"

 

[lnathan]

I Apolosize my ignorance, lnathan.

I wrote my earlier post so casually and I'm so embarassed with my naivety...now I shut up.

No need to apologize. We all look at life from a different perspective.

 

[lnathan]

Well, it's true, almost no-one of us really knows him, but some fans surely know more things about him than I do...Anyway, back to the song. Yeah, right: it seems like Moz wants God to be his friend and party, but sometimes God looks so silent, instead...As to human needs and sorrows, it's what he writes also in "I Have Forgiven Jesus": in the video he's a priest, but he suffers so much 'cause he can't rid himself free from love's desire. He tries to suffocate his feelings, but he can't: they're too deeply rooted and ingrained in his bones. The last line you mention was a bit incomprehensible for me, but this interpretation could explain everything: if Moz is talking to God, that line kind of mocks his omniscience and goodness: "Dear God, if you can't see how cruel is the life you gave us, it's not true you know all or love you so much...Maybe you're just as human as I am and...then why don't you understand me and remit my weakness?"

Yes that's what I meant. He is pulling god down to his own level by questioning his knowledge. You're not supposed to ask God "what do you know?" and doing so is treating him as a human being. But I like what your saying that's he's also questioning his goodness.

"I have forgiven Jesus" is a really interesting song. There seems to be such a conflict between him and Jesus. He used to rebel (through hail and snow I'd go/just to moon you), but now he wants to forgive and make peace. He seems to be so lonely because he has no one to give his love to, and he blames Jesus for this (why did you stick me in/self-deprecating bones and skin), but at the same time he is the only one he can turn to, so he has to forgive him. And again obviousely he's "humanizing" Jesus by claiming to forgive him.
I really love that song. The "Do you hate me, do you hate me?" at the end is so heartbreaking. Beautiful song!