Morrissey statement 2 June 2012; Matt Walker exits band

Re: Morrissey statement 2 June 2012

No more Matt Walker. Looks like this is Joyce's big chance.

 

[Skylarker]

Except Morrissey's already said that he didn't want Matt to leave and tried all manner of 'bargaining' to convince him to stay, but it didn't work.

Essentially what Morrissey saying it this way does is supplies him with full "abandoned victim" regalia. Another way of interpreting this statement is that instead of Matt simply leaving amicably, he left despite protests...this accentuates the concept of his "rejection" of Morrissey.

This is not the Alain scenario pt.2, full of silence and shady dealings.

No, but it's apples and oranges logic to bring that up.

We've got proof from the horse's mouth that Matt left, he wasn't kicked out, and yet people still manage to come up with theories about him being fired etc etc. It's completely silly.

It is silly to say he was fired, but let's be honest; Morrissey has some issues with people who "leave" him. Marr, Street, Cobrin, Whyte, every record company or manager he's ever had....painting with a broad brush, granted, but you get the idea.

I don't doubt he can be a cold bastard when he needs to be, but I don't think he's as emotionally one-dimensional as that, dividing people strictly into "Love"/"Hate" categories.

You don't? You consider him a measured, rational fence sitter; pragmatic and mature to all who cross his path? He calls for beheadings, deaths in fires, calls former best friends and band mates "interchangeable lawnmower parts" or else he is effusive to a degree of lunacy in his praise and devotion.

Why is the idea of Matt posting here so "heretical"? Everyone (and Moz most of all) knows that when the band wear those T-shirts, they are just billboards for The Boss's manifesto. They never pretended that "We Hate William & Kate" or any of that attention-seeking crap was their own point of view, and the same for the enforced vegetarianism on tour and all the rest of it. Matt has left and he doesn't have to operate within the confines of the "Morrissey aesthetic" anymore, he doesn't have to carry anyone else's grudges with him. I don't think it's a 'middle finger' to Moz at all - he's just got the freedom to speak for himself now, and if Moz doesn't like it well... that's his problem!

It's not that simple, though I applaud you making a very level-headed and fairminded interpretation of this. His bandmates don't punch a clock, it's not a "job"..well, not in Morrissey's eyes, although granted maybe it is to them but they know he doesn't see it that way. That's why he's OK with stiffing people financially who work for him; he sees the whole thing on a totally differnet level, where those involved should be lucky to work with him and help him disseminate his "art." He doesn't have to pay them because they're not employees, they're crusaders for their King.

Morrissey sees his band as a Knight of The Round Table-like band of warriors on a quest for Art and Truth. If Walker were to have said "no" to the shirts or the speedos or the 7-inch penises, there would have been some problems. Morrissey would have seen it as dissent and as detrimental to his holy "message." His notion of solidarity does not simply disappear when someone leaves or is fired; that's why he is always so emotional about it. I assure you, for Walker to post here, post-band or otherwise, he was making a statement larger than the one that appeared in print.

You guys are over thinking it if you think posting here was a big f*** you to Morrissey. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HIM, HE CLEARED IT UP. He wore a Sea World Sucks shirt on tour but do you think for a second that if asked to docent a school field trip with his son's class to the aquarium that he would refuse? No. He posted here because his name was topical and he wanted to clear up misinformation. You guys are just hungry for scandal. Jesus.

No one is hungry for scandal. People are discussing possible motives behind a sudden resignation from Walker after six years in a band; six years, in fact, of great difficulty for Morrissey artistically and commercially, during which time he probably felt or imagined great solidarity and sympathy within his camp. Then, randomly, before the tour's end, Walker has enough and leaves. Yep, sure, nothing strange there...

Most of these posts are very level headed. Your Sea World analogy is ridiculous. Morrissey has a bleeding heart for animals everywhere, but he takes Solo personally. I don't see how that can be debated.

I don't think Morrissey gives a shit where Matt posts his statements. There was talk on here, Matt addressed the talk, civil, classy, blah, end of story.

I assure you that to Morrissey, Walker joining and posting on this forum is tantamount to treason. Matt was civil and classy; I'll grant you that. But you want it to be "end of story" because the alternate theory is one you don't particularly care to think about..that even within Morrissey's camp, people are calling bullshit and saying, "no."

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Whatever, Skylarker.

 

[Anonymous]

Essentially what Morrissey saying it this way does is supplies him with full "abandoned victim" regalia. Another way of interpreting this statement is that instead of Matt simply leaving amicably, he left despite protests...this accentuates the concept of his "rejection" of Morrissey.

So? What 'th f*** do you care?

It is silly to say he was fired, but let's be honest; Morrissey has some issues with people who "leave" him. Marr, Street, Cobrin, Whyte, every record company or manager he's ever had....painting with a broad brush, granted, but you get the idea.

You spelled CORBIN wrong. But yes, we get the idea that you hate Morrissey and do your best to speak horrible about him. You have issues. No one has forced you to like him, have you ever looked in the mirror at YOUR life, I wonder if you use your same cynical criticism upon yourself? God help you, if you do.

You don't? You consider him a measured, rational fence sitter; pragmatic and mature to all who cross his path? He calls for beheadings, deaths in fires, calls former best friends and band mates "interchangeable lawnmower parts" or else he is effusive to a degree of lunacy in his praise and devotion.

Again, why do you care? I'm bored, can't respond to anymore of your gibberish.

 

[Anonymous]

Skylarker just smoked the Morrissey apologists.

Great job.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

funny stuff Skylarker
but perhaps some of you have put way too much thought into this
anyways, cool, that Matt posted here whatever the reasons
I mean really can we ever really know why anybody else does anything?
isnt all just us projecting onto them
perhaps it is best to keep that a minimum
or at least of a positive or humorous nature
how rad would that be!

 

[Skylarker]

You spelled CORBIN wrong

No.

Take heed, dullard, and listen to what I have to say.

If I had been spelling "Corbin" I would have spelled it "Corbin." But since his name is "Cobrin" I spelled it as such. Dummy.

Now take what's left of you and tell the rest of your anonymous friends about how I smote thee with neither hesitation nor remorse.

 

[Amy]

Essentially what Morrissey saying it this way does is supplies him with full "abandoned victim" regalia. Another way of interpreting this statement is that instead of Matt simply leaving amicably, he left despite protests...this accentuates the concept of his "rejection" of Morrissey.

By this logic, every new person that leaves/is left by Morrissey feeds his persecution complex, and - judging by his statement - Moz is actually incapable of understanding why anybody would want to leave him for any reason, ever. Right. I understand that idea, I think it has some credit (My Life is an Endless Succession of People Saying Goodbye, anybody?) but I just don't buy it. He's painted himself as somewhat of a 'perpetual victim' over the years because it suits his purposes and I think he takes great pleasure in it, but he's not a complete idiot unable to understand human emotions. Whatever the reasons for Matt's leaving, all 'despite protests' means is that Moz was sad to see him go.

No, but it's apples and oranges logic to bring that up.

Perhaps, yes, but not without some point. A lot of bitter fans have seen the Alain debacle and taken it as proof-positive that Morrissey is a heartless bastard just waiting to pour his wrath onto the next hired hand who misses the mark, and they will do anything to provide 'evidence' to that effect. The occasion of Matt leaving fits the bill adequately enough that they are already speculating about what he did to piss off The Great Evil One. I'm not suggesting that "Librarian on Fire" thinks that way at all, but some do - in fact I'd wager that you do - and for those people, Morrissey just can't do anything right.

It is silly to say he was fired, but let's be honest; Morrissey has some issues with people who "leave" him. Marr, Street, Cobrin, Whyte, every record company or manager he's ever had....painting with a broad brush, granted, but you get the idea.

.

He has a persecution complex, yes. It started with Marr, because his leaving was so catastrophic personally and professionally that Moz said it 'nearly killed [him]', and in the same breath that 'perhaps that's what [Marr] wanted' , so you can see the beginnings of that thought process. Placing the blame away from himself is how Morrissey had dealt with being 'left' for decades. Since 1987, Morrissey has expected people to betray him, to join and leave, be transient in the wider scheme of things. It allows him to play the 'victim', sure, but it allows him to get over their leaving fast and move on because he doesn't trust anybody. So has he got a ton of emotional baggage and 'issues' connected with people leaving him? Yeah. Does that make him immune to forgiving them when his better nature allows? I don't think so.

You don't? You consider him a measured, rational fence sitter; pragmatic and mature to all who cross his path? He calls for beheadings, deaths in fires, calls former best friends and band mates "interchangeable lawnmower parts" or else he is effusive to a degree of lunacy in his praise and devotion.

.

Obviously not, please see above. Remember what Jo Slee called him? "Evil in the way that damaged people are", "childlike, extreme in his emotional reactions to people"... "not in touch with the consequences of his actions". Jo Slee knew him pretty damn well and she put all this behaviour ^ down to his depression and social frustrations. He's obviously 'damaged' emotionally (who isn't?), and consequently he's erratic and unpredictable and can most certainly be an arse from time to time, but it doesn't automatically make him a villain. That's too easy a conclusion to jump to.

It's not that simple, though I applaud you making a very level-headed and fairminded interpretation of this. His bandmates don't punch a clock, it's not a "job"..well, not in Morrissey's eyes, although granted maybe it is to them but they know he doesn't see it that way. That's why he's OK with stiffing people financially who work for him; he sees the whole thing on a totally differnet level, where those involved should be lucky to work with him and help him disseminate his "art." He doesn't have to pay them because they're not employees, they're crusaders for their King.

Morrissey sees his band as a Knight of The Round Table-like band of warriors on a quest for Art and Truth. If Walker were to have said "no" to the shirts or the speedos or the 7-inch penises, there would have been some problems. Morrissey would have seen it as dissent and as detrimental to his holy "message." His notion of solidarity does not simply disappear when someone leaves or is fired; that's why he is always so emotional about it. I assure you, for Walker to post here, post-band or otherwise, he was making a statement larger than the one that appeared in print.

And now you've completely lost me. You paint Morrissey as a barely-functioning lunatic operating in an enormous delusional bubble, completely unaware of his professional obligations and thinking that he's some kind of Messiah and the band are his apostles. He didn't even think that 25 years ago, and we all know how breathless he was in championing The Smiths. The Round-Table stuff is silly. He sees the band as hired hands and that's it; the 'loyalty' schmuck is everything to do with image and nothing to do with reality, it only exists because he doesn't want the lackeys "doing a Marr" on him every 5 minutes.

 

[Seymour Butts]

Has anyone been doing their research? Morrissey is a man of PRINCIPLES. If he wears a stupid t-shirt that says “f*** MORRISSEY-SOLO.COM”, you better believe he BELIEVES IT 100%. He is a man OF HIS WORD. So for anyone to come on this forum and say that Morrissey is not going to care if MATT WALKER posts on Morrissey-solo, YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MORRISSEY. Obviously ex-drummer MATT WALKER is either f***ing thick in the head for posting on here (which I don’t believe is true), or HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT MORRISSEY (which would not be surprising). He made a mistake posting on this website, he breached Morrissey’s trust, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Morrissey in the coming days, retracts his statement on True-to-you. “Such a little thing. Such a little thing. But the difference it made was grave.”

 

[Anonymous]

You paint Morrissey as a barely-functioning lunatic operating in an enormous delusional bubble, completely unaware of his professional obligations and thinking that he's some kind of Messiah and the band are his apostles.

Personally, I think there's more than a grain of truth in that characterisation.

 

[Skylarker]

You paint Morrissey as a barely-functioning lunatic operating in an enormous delusional bubble, completely unaware of his professional obligations and thinking that he's some kind of Messiah and the band are his apostles. He didn't even think that 25 years ago, and we all know how breathless he was in championing The Smiths. The Round-Table stuff is silly. He sees the band as hired hands and that's it; the 'loyalty' schmuck is everything to do with image and nothing to do with reality, it only exists because he doesn't want the lackeys "doing a Marr" on him every 5 minutes.

Possibly.

 

[Irregular Regular]

The queen is dead, boys...

(and girls)

 

[Worm]

I don't know about every detail of his posts in this thread, but on one point Skylarker is absolutely right. If Matt posted here, it's a slap in Morrissey's face. If Matt knows the Morrissey fan sites, and wanted to get a message here, he'd know that he could send a statement to True To You and it would show up as a link on Solo anyway, in a matter of hours.

None of it matters, though. Matt might have gotten sick of drumming for Morrissey for any number of reasons which may or may not be related to bad things that have happened to Morrissey associates in the past. There's no way to know what went on. Good luck to Matt and let's move on to discussing important things like Morrissey's sexuality, his alleged racism, the court cases, and whether or not Geoff Travis properly marketed "Shakespeare's Sister".

 

[Irregular Regular]

Good luck to Matt and let's move on to discussing important things like Morrissey's sexuality, his alleged racism, the court cases, and whether or not Geoff Travis properly marketed "Shakespeare's Sister".

Agreed.
And the rain that flattens my hair, please don't forget that.
Can we discuss this too?

 

[Worm]

the rain that flattens my hair, please don't forget that.

Sure. It's a pun. The reign that flattens my heir: Morrissey and The Smiths killed indie rock. Discuss.

 

[Irregular Regular]

Sure. It's a pun. The reign that flattens my heir: Morrissey and The Smiths killed indie rock. Discuss.

Not sure if Moz killed indie rock, he surely has killed me though.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Not sure if Moz killed indie rock, he surely has killed me though.

I really like the drums on that song

 

[Irregular Regular]

I really like the drums on that song

Me too, is Mr Joyce available?
The best drummer Moz has ever worked with, no contest.

The Smiths = Morrissey & Marr & Rourke & Joyce

Beware of poor imitations.

 

[goinghome]

Some reaction to Morrissey's denunciation of the royals (3rd para. down) - http://exclaim.ca/News/week_in_comm...back_roundup_with_axl_rose_morrissey_stepkids

General cover - http://www.clashmusic.com/news/morrissey-likes-japan-doesnt-like-the-uk

Drummer mentions - http://musicfeeds.com.au/news/morrisseys-drummer-quits-the-band-squashes-fall-out-rumours/

 

[Ben Budd]

Me too, is Mr Joyce available?
The best drummer Moz has ever worked with, no contest.

The Smiths = Morrissey & Marr & Rourke & Joyce

Beware of poor imitations.

these are the worst posts. what's the point? we get it. the smiths were perfect, untouchable, an incredible force that burned so brightly for four years then ceased. why must everything but held against it when it's a futile point to do so? Morrissey may have gone through a few too many band members than can be considered comfortable but he has worked with some fine musicians since 1987, it's unfair to cross your arms, sit there and go "well it isn't the smiths is it?"

 

[Mozza220559]

Me too, is Mr Joyce available?
The best drummer Moz has ever worked with, no contest.

The Smiths = Morrissey & Marr & Rourke & Joyce

Beware of poor imitations.

Mate, Moz hates Joyce, why the f*** will he want him back as a replacement drummer?

Plus Joyce is a boring, medicore skin basher.

I prefered Deano.