R
RonaldBiggs
Guest
Check out todays copy of the mirror.
The songs will not be published sorry.
The songs will not be published sorry.
N
Never mind
Guest
The above is bullsh*t ...
M
Michael Legge
Guest
Actually, it's true. The songs will never be published if I don't get some postive feedback pretty damn soon. Does everyone that feels the need to email me HAVE to be so negative?
S
suzanne
Guest
> Actually, it's true. The songs will never be published if I
> don't get some postive feedback pretty damn soon. Does everyone
> that feels the need to email me HAVE to be so negative?
you crack addict, who in the hell is the flake running around proclaiming you to be God? is that not positive enough for you? Is there a level of being more revered than that which you were hoping someone would call you? Were you hoping the Pope would recognize you as the 2nd coming?
> don't get some postive feedback pretty damn soon. Does everyone
> that feels the need to email me HAVE to be so negative?
you crack addict, who in the hell is the flake running around proclaiming you to be God? is that not positive enough for you? Is there a level of being more revered than that which you were hoping someone would call you? Were you hoping the Pope would recognize you as the 2nd coming?
M
Michael Legge
Guest
This is exactly what I'm talking about. That was the last chance. Sorry, the songs remain with me. Bye.
S
sprucebruce
Guest
SUZANNE HAS RUINED IT FOR EVERYONE
M
Michael Legge
Guest
Re: SUZANNE HAS RUINED IT FOR EVERYONE
To be fair she hasn't. I've just had enough of the horrible bitchiness and incredible venom that comes from what I assume is your average Morrissey fan. Loads of people have been really nice and they will recieve the tracks (they have promised not to distribute) but too many have been horrible. My apologies to those who lost out but I just feel there's not enough love to go round anymore.
To be fair she hasn't. I've just had enough of the horrible bitchiness and incredible venom that comes from what I assume is your average Morrissey fan. Loads of people have been really nice and they will recieve the tracks (they have promised not to distribute) but too many have been horrible. My apologies to those who lost out but I just feel there's not enough love to go round anymore.
R
Roger Melly (The Man Off The Telly)
Guest
Suz-anne... dadadah... Is Hated For Living
S
suzanne
Guest
Mr. Legge makes us stay after school and copy sentences
> To be fair she hasn't. I've just had enough of the horrible
> bitchiness and incredible venom that comes from what I assume is
> your average Morrissey fan. Loads of people have been really
> nice and they will recieve the tracks (they have promised not to
> distribute) but too many have been horrible. My apologies to
> those who lost out but I just feel there's not enough love to go
> round anymore.
Do you not listen?
And this latest thing has "fine. I'll take my toy and go home" written all over it. You remind me of the 3rd grade teacher who says, "OK, since he was chewing gum NOBODY gets to go outside for recess"
and if this is the best thing in life you can accomplish for yourself, making yourself feel important by controlling who gets to hear songs you had no hand in writing or producing, then I'm very sad.
I'm surprised you didn't commit suicide when you saw one guy in the back not laughing at your jokes. how did you make it this far?
> To be fair she hasn't. I've just had enough of the horrible
> bitchiness and incredible venom that comes from what I assume is
> your average Morrissey fan. Loads of people have been really
> nice and they will recieve the tracks (they have promised not to
> distribute) but too many have been horrible. My apologies to
> those who lost out but I just feel there's not enough love to go
> round anymore.
Do you not listen?
And this latest thing has "fine. I'll take my toy and go home" written all over it. You remind me of the 3rd grade teacher who says, "OK, since he was chewing gum NOBODY gets to go outside for recess"
and if this is the best thing in life you can accomplish for yourself, making yourself feel important by controlling who gets to hear songs you had no hand in writing or producing, then I'm very sad.
I'm surprised you didn't commit suicide when you saw one guy in the back not laughing at your jokes. how did you make it this far?
R
rose robert
Guest
> This is exactly what I'm talking about. That was the last
> chance. Sorry, the songs remain with me. Bye.
I'm sorry you had to find out what a BIATCH Sooze is. But you're not alone. I would be grateful to d/l the songs from some web page. That would be nice.
> chance. Sorry, the songs remain with me. Bye.
I'm sorry you had to find out what a BIATCH Sooze is. But you're not alone. I would be grateful to d/l the songs from some web page. That would be nice.
R
rose robert
Guest
Re: Mr. Legge makes us stay after school and copy sentences
Shut up Sooze. He had a hand in getting a copy of the songs. And he is making the effort to make them available to biatches like yourself. That deserves applause and if he's willing to share unheard songs with fans who are bored of all the rehashing then you should at least say, "Thank you." What a BIATCH you are Sooze.
> Do you not listen?
> And this latest thing has "fine. I'll take my toy and go
> home" written all over it. You remind me of the 3rd grade
> teacher who says, "OK, since he was chewing gum NOBODY gets
> to go outside for recess"
> and if this is the best thing in life you can accomplish for
> yourself, making yourself feel important by controlling who gets
> to hear songs you had no hand in writing or producing, then I'm
> very sad.
> I'm surprised you didn't commit suicide when you saw one guy in
> the back not laughing at your jokes. how did you make it this
> far?
Shut up Sooze. He had a hand in getting a copy of the songs. And he is making the effort to make them available to biatches like yourself. That deserves applause and if he's willing to share unheard songs with fans who are bored of all the rehashing then you should at least say, "Thank you." What a BIATCH you are Sooze.
> Do you not listen?
> And this latest thing has "fine. I'll take my toy and go
> home" written all over it. You remind me of the 3rd grade
> teacher who says, "OK, since he was chewing gum NOBODY gets
> to go outside for recess"
> and if this is the best thing in life you can accomplish for
> yourself, making yourself feel important by controlling who gets
> to hear songs you had no hand in writing or producing, then I'm
> very sad.
> I'm surprised you didn't commit suicide when you saw one guy in
> the back not laughing at your jokes. how did you make it this
> far?
F
Fabricio
Guest
Re: Mr. Legge makes us stay after school and copy sentences
> Shut up Sooze. He had a hand in getting a copy of the songs. And
> he is making the effort to make them available to biatches like
> yourself. That deserves applause and if he's willing to share
> unheard songs with fans who are bored of all the rehashing then
> you should at least say, "Thank you." What a BIATCH
> you are Sooze.
I love when snoop D O double G sings BIATCH in his songs.
I really feel dumb these days...
> Shut up Sooze. He had a hand in getting a copy of the songs. And
> he is making the effort to make them available to biatches like
> yourself. That deserves applause and if he's willing to share
> unheard songs with fans who are bored of all the rehashing then
> you should at least say, "Thank you." What a BIATCH
> you are Sooze.
I love when snoop D O double G sings BIATCH in his songs.
I really feel dumb these days...
P
Ping Pong
Guest
Re: Suzanne, do you only come on this board to start arguments?
S
suzanne
Guest
No.
I dunno. He reminds me of that story from the bible about the chosen people needing water and God tells someone to tap a rock and water will appear, but the guy makes the big boo boo of saying that HE is personally responsible for the water appearing.
I just find this whole thing oddly Old Testament.
But I am asking a legitimate question, and if you think about it, you'll see my point, but of course, everyone is thinking in terms of "can I have the material?" which doesn't do wonders for anything.
I mean, people like you are like "raahr raahr Suzanne is a crabby bitch" but you don't even begin to understand the bad string of luck I've had recently with some of the nutjobs around here. So, in a very long winded and detailed report, here is what I have to say:
As of recent, it starts out with Hiberniabilly. Other women on this board can vouch that this man has no respect for women on a cognative level. I made the mistake of trying to discuss software and of course, it blows up into this pile of crap, as I see myself as feminist and don't like being addressed in such a way, ending with some lame attempt on his behalf claiming I was a Morrissey stalker. Which is absolutely not true as I've never once sat in front of his house, didn't go to the DVD signing, never waited at his hotel after I saw his shows, and wrote the grand total of ONE (1) letter in my entire life.
Which he was doing it in the case of Laura. Some people may NOT believe, but I did have good intentions with that. I had it on very good authority that she was a con-artist who sits in front of Morrissey's house all day long, lying her way through various friendships in this neverending quest to get to the man himself. I did what I did not to really teach her a lesson as it was pointless. I simply felt it was my obligation as a fellow fan to inform other fans to not trust her with your letters, and more importantly, if anyone hiding out DID have loose connections with Moz, like if they ran fanzines, I was letting them know as well that she may try and make up some story about being on his staff as a way of conning them.
Which leads on to the flake who repeatedly insults me about "promoting" myself. I have not posted a direct link to my website here on this place for well over a year. The biggest thing I do is leave my songs as real audio signature appendages on the newsboard where several of you also link your personal websites under your personal information. i admit to writing about what I do in my journal, but I'm not doing it in the tone of pumping up what I do as a press release. I write about how I feel about what sort of music I'm making that day, which these days includes more references to a wedding choir which absolutely none of you will see, and i seriously doubt would be interested in. This guy, for god knows how long, repeatedly shows up, makes a big stink that my link actually exists, and calls me a hypocrite. For what? Why doesn't this guy go up to any of you and say, "how dare YOU for linking your site with your Katherine Hepburn pictures?" or, even more tellingly, the occasional bands that we DO get coming through here, posting a grand announcement that they have covered a Morrissey song and if we could come check out their music. Someone did it just a few days ago, and do you see him saying anything to them? No. And when you start to ask yourself that question, you will begin to realize that his problem runs MUCH deeper than me posting a link of me covering a Bad Finger song, that you have to squint to see at the bottom of my postings.
Which, I have to admit, because he makes such an awful deal about it, I honestly can't remove the link. Not out of promotion, but from the very idea that I feel he has to live with it. Even if he feels like he has found a club within this to bash me over the head, even if he feels like the perpetual mentioning of it will give people some ammo with which to shoot at me, even if I have to see this guy with absolutely no life and with absolutely nothing to contribute of his own, following me around for months on end and complaining and writing the same grocery list of complaints over and over and over and over and over and over and over again like he happened upon the idea 5 minutes ago, so be it.
Which brings me to our latest addition. You realize this guy is playing you like a fiddle? Believe it or not, I was just as interested as anyone else when it came out that someone has these songs. But you know what he's doing with this tactic don't you? He's not happy that I pointed out he was using Morrissey's songs to promote his comedy routine, and therefore, martyrs himself in an a sad attempt to sic people on me.
I was asking an honest question. Nobody else gets a "fan club". Nobody else gets happy people following him around proclaiming him to be a god. What else is he wanting? I understand it....to a point. Yay a friend of his got some songs. But shouldn't we be paying homage to his friend in the studio who got him the songs? What IS his name? Does anyone know? What about the nice person who is uploading these songs for him? How about Morrissey who originally sang the songs and chose to never release them and therefore, gave him a great platform to come to a website with a huge readership and entice them to look? What about the tons of people who actually checked out his website and wrote letter upon letter begging him for the release of the songs? So, exactly WHO is Micheal Legge doing right by?
Again, I'm wanting to see the right people get their dues. But all I see is Legge asking "where is my tickertape parade?"
He claimed that if enough people asked, he would put the songs on a website for all to see. Well, enough people asked, and you should be angry at HIM for reneging on his deal. But of course, I don't posess any of the songs so I see why I'm the bigger punching bag.
But I don't know EITHER if he's doing it to force some apology out of me, but I have none to give. I feel like I should be able to voice an opinion without his creepy friends sending me unwanted emails, which was INDEED the last straw, as I don't think that if any of you had gotten the sort of emails that i did, you wouldn't be sitting there smiling nicely about what a great thing this is. If it weren't for that, I could have lived.
If it makes people feel better, I have NOT listened to the clip of Striptease. Yes, I have that sort of restraint, believe it or not, and if the website was posted for "all to see" I have no interest in visiting it. Actually, if he's gone back to the secret deal, I'm having a competetion on who can first send me the link. No names revealed, and my proof being all of the other people I leave as "anonymous" when they ask.
I know it's silly and stupid, but I'm doing it out of curiosity.
I dunno. He reminds me of that story from the bible about the chosen people needing water and God tells someone to tap a rock and water will appear, but the guy makes the big boo boo of saying that HE is personally responsible for the water appearing.
I just find this whole thing oddly Old Testament.
But I am asking a legitimate question, and if you think about it, you'll see my point, but of course, everyone is thinking in terms of "can I have the material?" which doesn't do wonders for anything.
I mean, people like you are like "raahr raahr Suzanne is a crabby bitch" but you don't even begin to understand the bad string of luck I've had recently with some of the nutjobs around here. So, in a very long winded and detailed report, here is what I have to say:
As of recent, it starts out with Hiberniabilly. Other women on this board can vouch that this man has no respect for women on a cognative level. I made the mistake of trying to discuss software and of course, it blows up into this pile of crap, as I see myself as feminist and don't like being addressed in such a way, ending with some lame attempt on his behalf claiming I was a Morrissey stalker. Which is absolutely not true as I've never once sat in front of his house, didn't go to the DVD signing, never waited at his hotel after I saw his shows, and wrote the grand total of ONE (1) letter in my entire life.
Which he was doing it in the case of Laura. Some people may NOT believe, but I did have good intentions with that. I had it on very good authority that she was a con-artist who sits in front of Morrissey's house all day long, lying her way through various friendships in this neverending quest to get to the man himself. I did what I did not to really teach her a lesson as it was pointless. I simply felt it was my obligation as a fellow fan to inform other fans to not trust her with your letters, and more importantly, if anyone hiding out DID have loose connections with Moz, like if they ran fanzines, I was letting them know as well that she may try and make up some story about being on his staff as a way of conning them.
Which leads on to the flake who repeatedly insults me about "promoting" myself. I have not posted a direct link to my website here on this place for well over a year. The biggest thing I do is leave my songs as real audio signature appendages on the newsboard where several of you also link your personal websites under your personal information. i admit to writing about what I do in my journal, but I'm not doing it in the tone of pumping up what I do as a press release. I write about how I feel about what sort of music I'm making that day, which these days includes more references to a wedding choir which absolutely none of you will see, and i seriously doubt would be interested in. This guy, for god knows how long, repeatedly shows up, makes a big stink that my link actually exists, and calls me a hypocrite. For what? Why doesn't this guy go up to any of you and say, "how dare YOU for linking your site with your Katherine Hepburn pictures?" or, even more tellingly, the occasional bands that we DO get coming through here, posting a grand announcement that they have covered a Morrissey song and if we could come check out their music. Someone did it just a few days ago, and do you see him saying anything to them? No. And when you start to ask yourself that question, you will begin to realize that his problem runs MUCH deeper than me posting a link of me covering a Bad Finger song, that you have to squint to see at the bottom of my postings.
Which, I have to admit, because he makes such an awful deal about it, I honestly can't remove the link. Not out of promotion, but from the very idea that I feel he has to live with it. Even if he feels like he has found a club within this to bash me over the head, even if he feels like the perpetual mentioning of it will give people some ammo with which to shoot at me, even if I have to see this guy with absolutely no life and with absolutely nothing to contribute of his own, following me around for months on end and complaining and writing the same grocery list of complaints over and over and over and over and over and over and over again like he happened upon the idea 5 minutes ago, so be it.
Which brings me to our latest addition. You realize this guy is playing you like a fiddle? Believe it or not, I was just as interested as anyone else when it came out that someone has these songs. But you know what he's doing with this tactic don't you? He's not happy that I pointed out he was using Morrissey's songs to promote his comedy routine, and therefore, martyrs himself in an a sad attempt to sic people on me.
I was asking an honest question. Nobody else gets a "fan club". Nobody else gets happy people following him around proclaiming him to be a god. What else is he wanting? I understand it....to a point. Yay a friend of his got some songs. But shouldn't we be paying homage to his friend in the studio who got him the songs? What IS his name? Does anyone know? What about the nice person who is uploading these songs for him? How about Morrissey who originally sang the songs and chose to never release them and therefore, gave him a great platform to come to a website with a huge readership and entice them to look? What about the tons of people who actually checked out his website and wrote letter upon letter begging him for the release of the songs? So, exactly WHO is Micheal Legge doing right by?
Again, I'm wanting to see the right people get their dues. But all I see is Legge asking "where is my tickertape parade?"
He claimed that if enough people asked, he would put the songs on a website for all to see. Well, enough people asked, and you should be angry at HIM for reneging on his deal. But of course, I don't posess any of the songs so I see why I'm the bigger punching bag.
But I don't know EITHER if he's doing it to force some apology out of me, but I have none to give. I feel like I should be able to voice an opinion without his creepy friends sending me unwanted emails, which was INDEED the last straw, as I don't think that if any of you had gotten the sort of emails that i did, you wouldn't be sitting there smiling nicely about what a great thing this is. If it weren't for that, I could have lived.
If it makes people feel better, I have NOT listened to the clip of Striptease. Yes, I have that sort of restraint, believe it or not, and if the website was posted for "all to see" I have no interest in visiting it. Actually, if he's gone back to the secret deal, I'm having a competetion on who can first send me the link. No names revealed, and my proof being all of the other people I leave as "anonymous" when they ask.
I know it's silly and stupid, but I'm doing it out of curiosity.
E
enlightenment provider
Guest
Yes, you are a psychopath
you still don't even realize what a bitter nutjob you are- it's obvious to everyone else on this message board
get help
please
you still don't even realize what a bitter nutjob you are- it's obvious to everyone else on this message board
get help
please
S
suzanne
Guest
Re: Yes, you are a psychopath
> you still don't even realize what a bitter
ah, that word...
>nutjob you are- it's
> obvious to everyone else on this message board
Because I believe in an idea enough that I'm willing to sacrifice something I've wanted for the sake of it?
Do you think I enjoy being hated? Do you know how happy I would have been if Hiberniabilly talked to me like I was educated adult, knowledgeable in the arts of technology and I would have had a compadre to swap MIDI ideas with? Do you know how thrilled I would have been had Laura not been coming here and publicly promising she could give people some access to Morrissey when she had none to give? I sat on that info for well over a week coz I thought she wasn't doing any harm to the masses. Do you have any idea how nice it would be to leave the things I created as as my signature as part of who I am without telling me I'm the ugliest and most untalented freak on the planet? Do you have any freaking clue how glad I would have been had other people had acted normally and contributed obscure material to a website which is built on a huge communal effort by everyone who visits and by the very few of them getting a proper "thanks"?
All the people who handtype and transcribe lengthy articles, some going as far as to translate the content if its in a foreign language? All the people who go to gigs and get great photos? All the people who type long-winded show reviews so those of us who can't make it to a show get to know what's happening? Everyone did it because they are such big fans that they wanted to share. I can't even begin to say how happy those bits make me. but i'm sure at this point even if I DID say it, people would assume I'm being sarcastic.
I never really told anyone how cool it would have been to see the Going South On Moz video, did I? That would have been great, as I had this feeling all along that if he went to Mexico and beyond, he would find there was a gigantic following and this was the moment of revelation. But i also know it was being released illegally.
> you still don't even realize what a bitter
ah, that word...
>nutjob you are- it's
> obvious to everyone else on this message board
Because I believe in an idea enough that I'm willing to sacrifice something I've wanted for the sake of it?
Do you think I enjoy being hated? Do you know how happy I would have been if Hiberniabilly talked to me like I was educated adult, knowledgeable in the arts of technology and I would have had a compadre to swap MIDI ideas with? Do you know how thrilled I would have been had Laura not been coming here and publicly promising she could give people some access to Morrissey when she had none to give? I sat on that info for well over a week coz I thought she wasn't doing any harm to the masses. Do you have any idea how nice it would be to leave the things I created as as my signature as part of who I am without telling me I'm the ugliest and most untalented freak on the planet? Do you have any freaking clue how glad I would have been had other people had acted normally and contributed obscure material to a website which is built on a huge communal effort by everyone who visits and by the very few of them getting a proper "thanks"?
All the people who handtype and transcribe lengthy articles, some going as far as to translate the content if its in a foreign language? All the people who go to gigs and get great photos? All the people who type long-winded show reviews so those of us who can't make it to a show get to know what's happening? Everyone did it because they are such big fans that they wanted to share. I can't even begin to say how happy those bits make me. but i'm sure at this point even if I DID say it, people would assume I'm being sarcastic.
I never really told anyone how cool it would have been to see the Going South On Moz video, did I? That would have been great, as I had this feeling all along that if he went to Mexico and beyond, he would find there was a gigantic following and this was the moment of revelation. But i also know it was being released illegally.
T
tania
Guest
> This is exactly what I'm talking about. That was the last
> chance. Sorry, the songs remain with me. Bye.
so na na na na na
hmmm....
> chance. Sorry, the songs remain with me. Bye.
so na na na na na
hmmm....
M
mozzerian
Guest
Michael keep on to the songs
> so na na na na na
> hmmm....
Who is tania. There is no tania, someone (suzanne) has changed the name to offer herself some support.
You could not blame michael for getting upset over the negativity of some people. I emailed Michael last night and explained the miserable behaviour of certain people (suzanne).
I say that everyone boycotts her messages because all she is looking for is attention and the more people read and respond, the brighter her life is.
Thinks about it shes here 24/7 and has been for years so im told.
If I dont get the songs as a result of you SUZANNE then war is declared.....
> so na na na na na
> hmmm....
Who is tania. There is no tania, someone (suzanne) has changed the name to offer herself some support.
You could not blame michael for getting upset over the negativity of some people. I emailed Michael last night and explained the miserable behaviour of certain people (suzanne).
I say that everyone boycotts her messages because all she is looking for is attention and the more people read and respond, the brighter her life is.
Thinks about it shes here 24/7 and has been for years so im told.
If I dont get the songs as a result of you SUZANNE then war is declared.....
L
Lifeguard Sleeping
Guest
Mozzerian, Kindly Get a Grip
> I say that everyone boycotts her messages because all she is
> looking for is attention and the more people read and respond,
> the brighter her life is.
I've said it before and I will continue to say it: ENOUGH WITH THE "LET'S BOYCOTT SOMEONE BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THEM" BULLS.HIT!
You have no right to play schoolyard bully and tell the rest of us posters whose posts we should OR shouldn't read.
We're all intelligent enough to make our own decisions.
> Thinks about it shes here 24/7 and has been for years so im
> told.
What does this (obviously untrue) assumption have to do with anything?
> If I dont get the songs as a result of you SUZANNE then war is
> declared.....
Are you making threats, now?
May I humbly suggest (note: no bullying involved!) that you grow up, get over this and stop this war-cry posturing?
> I say that everyone boycotts her messages because all she is
> looking for is attention and the more people read and respond,
> the brighter her life is.
I've said it before and I will continue to say it: ENOUGH WITH THE "LET'S BOYCOTT SOMEONE BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THEM" BULLS.HIT!
You have no right to play schoolyard bully and tell the rest of us posters whose posts we should OR shouldn't read.
We're all intelligent enough to make our own decisions.
> Thinks about it shes here 24/7 and has been for years so im
> told.
What does this (obviously untrue) assumption have to do with anything?
> If I dont get the songs as a result of you SUZANNE then war is
> declared.....
Are you making threats, now?
May I humbly suggest (note: no bullying involved!) that you grow up, get over this and stop this war-cry posturing?
M
mozzerian
Guest
Re: Mozzerian, Kindly Get a Grip
> I've said it before and I will continue to say it: ENOUGH WITH
> THE "LET'S BOYCOTT SOMEONE BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THEM"
> BULLS.HIT!
> You have no right to play schoolyard bully and tell the rest of
> us posters whose posts we should OR shouldn't read.
> We're all intelligent enough to make our own decisions.
> What does this (obviously untrue) assumption have to do with
> anything?
> Are you making threats, now?
> May I humbly suggest (note: no bullying involved!) that you grow
> up, get over this and stop this war-cry posturing?
As if people will listen to me. Did I ORDER people not to read her posts. If anything me saying that will have the opposite effect.
I shouldnt even have responded to her damn message in the first place.
Ive been here 2 or 3 weeks and once these songs have been heard I will visit the board to look for news but my message days are over. The people worth talking to in here dont change their names when they have something to say and dont look a gifthorse in the mouth....
> I've said it before and I will continue to say it: ENOUGH WITH
> THE "LET'S BOYCOTT SOMEONE BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THEM"
> BULLS.HIT!
> You have no right to play schoolyard bully and tell the rest of
> us posters whose posts we should OR shouldn't read.
> We're all intelligent enough to make our own decisions.
> What does this (obviously untrue) assumption have to do with
> anything?
> Are you making threats, now?
> May I humbly suggest (note: no bullying involved!) that you grow
> up, get over this and stop this war-cry posturing?
As if people will listen to me. Did I ORDER people not to read her posts. If anything me saying that will have the opposite effect.
I shouldnt even have responded to her damn message in the first place.
Ive been here 2 or 3 weeks and once these songs have been heard I will visit the board to look for news but my message days are over. The people worth talking to in here dont change their names when they have something to say and dont look a gifthorse in the mouth....
