Morrissey on Minogue

redpathetic

Somehow Anesthetized
Kylie is camp, and she's a gay icon. She's like the Judy Garland of this generation - and by the way, Kylie has had more artistic input into her music than Judy ever did!!!!
As long as Kylie is successful they will wet blanket every drop of talent she has with an endlessly cynical fog. It's just something that will never change. People who have no need to change never do.
 

Sunbags

Sunbags
She may well cater to a gay crowd, and your point is....? (by the way the second pic look like shes catering for Michael Jacksons fantasies, 3rd one some sort of Abba rip off 4th one Madonna lite. Its what she does , pale imitations of other pop acts)

Kylie? Artistic input ? Come along now , the last bus to la-la land leaves in five minutes. Next you'll be talking about Danii's contribution to popular culture, and how great X Factor is . Pffft


PS Not sure if she's ever died of a drug overdose, but shes died on TV a few times, in fact several times during her performance in Doc Who, due to the sheer inert, timber like performance. Torchwood? I should co-co!
My point was that she's a gay icon, not an FHM one - I would have written it in these simple terms had I known you would find it THAT hard to understand.

Kylie? Artistic input? If you can disprove my admission, then go ahead punk.

Danni has made a substantial contribution to popular culture and the X factor is great. Give the people what they want, darling!;)
 

Danny_

Forgot my login!
My point was that she's a gay icon, not an FHM one - I would have written it in these simple terms had I known you would find it THAT hard to understand.

She's both actually. Her career was revitalised by appealing much more to the FHM readership than the gay one. It was only later on the obvious strategic move was made to pander to the gay crowd. Then all the feathers came out. :rolleyes:

Either way, it's playing up to what men want of women rather than expressing her own sexuality. I don't think gay men are free from the guilt of objectifying and stereotyping women. They are just as bad as many straight men.
 

Sunbags

Sunbags
She's both actually. Her career was revitalised by appealing much more to the FHM readership than the gay one. It was only later on the obvious strategic move was made to pander to the gay crowd. Then all the feathers came out. :rolleyes:.
It was only later she pandered to the gay crowd? Who did "I should be so lucky" pander to then?

Either way, it's playing up to what men want of women rather than expressing her own sexuality. I don't think gay men are free from the guilt of objectifying and stereotyping women. They are just as bad as many straight men.
Women in the media who are portrayed so that men will find them attractive, are generally adhering to particular stereotypes, that's very true. And I do agree with you that gay men are just as bad as straight men when it comes to objectifying women (I'm thinking mainly of the fashion industry here, where women are essentially turned into hangers). However, in music, the women who were well known gay icons were always extremely tough, different, and more than anything, they were their own bosses (Barbra Streisand being a very good example of this). These women (i.e. Cher, Judy, Barbra, Liza, Diana Ross, Dolly Parton etc) weren't really fancied by men because of their aforementioned traits. Kylie isn't really seen as being attractive as she once was - she came 93 in FHM top 100 sexiest women this year (urrrrgh, I hate these polls btw), when a few years ago she was in the top 10, I think! She's not an FHM icon nowadays, and thank god for that.
 

redpathetic

Somehow Anesthetized
Either way, it's playing up to what men want of women rather than expressing her own sexuality.
The joy she takes in most of her performances speaks for itself. She sure has been playing up to what I want of women, and I am a woman.
 

redpathetic

Somehow Anesthetized
Hehehe, problem is though, Red old son, the videos such as Spinning Around (same goes for the live "show") arent real representations of things that happen in reality I mean its not a documentary is it ? Its selling a sexualised ideal. The idea is yes to show her "enjoying her sexuality" the reality is, its a video,using her sexuality to sell product "kylie" . It bears no relation to the real world. I think you need to sepreate fantasy from reality. At the end of the day women still get a tough time in the music industry and there is still a pressure on them to "sex it up" a bit, whether they want to or not.

Maybe if women were in the majority in the industry I'd agree with you. But they ain't so I dont
Realities can begin with fantasy. Many people are fantasizing along with Kylie, turning it into a reality, a world where people can feel sexy and be flirtatious and not have to be abused for it.
 
D

Dave

Guest
I don't think gay men are free from the guilt of objectifying and stereotyping women. They are just as bad as many straight men.
"Gay men", "straight men", and "women"are all useful but flawed concepts which three groups together make up a few billion individual people. All women are not the same, all gay men are not the same, all straight men are not the same. This makes what you wrote completely meaningless, which is fine, but maybe you will be able to see that trying to say that someone promotes stereotypes and then talking about vast groups of people as though they conform to your labels doesn't really work.
 

vpme

New Member
My point was that she's a gay icon, not an FHM one - I would have written it in these simple terms had I known you would find it THAT hard to understand.

Kylie? Artistic input? If you can disprove my admission, then go ahead punk.

Danni has made a substantial contribution to popular culture and the X factor is great. Give the people what they want, darling!;)

hahahahaha oh dear ,oh dear, lovely attempt at sarcasam, I feel as if I've been savaged by a dead sheep .. I'll leave you in your own prissy little dream world then. Your views just higlight the problem with the "hello" style celeb obsessed brain dead culture that's swamping our nation, while the charts are crawling with Cowell's cruise ship crooners who barely last more than one album . The sad thing is just browsing myspace , there is so much talent out there, made by people who love music ... but the industry prefers to suck Cowells rancid little c*ck. He is helping destroy music, he doesnt create talent , he destroys it . There are no slowburn sucess storys, just quick fix disposable shite, for an audience that demands to be Entertained NOW...The "me ,me, me" generation ....Instead of the Industry targeting downloaders they should target Cowell ....People who love the X-Factor do not love music.

Danni Minogue and her cultural relevance? yes I can see that one being discussed on The Late Review.....

Then again maybe we have the media we deserve ...they say it reflects society
 
Last edited:

Sunbags

Sunbags
Danni has made a substantial contribution to popular culture and the X factor is great. Give the people what they want, darling!;)
Do you see the quote above, the one which you replied to so passionately below? I wasn't being serious. I regret that you didn't understand this.

hahahahaha oh dear ,oh dear, lovely attempt at sarcasam, I feel as if I've been savaged by a dead sheep .. I'll leave you in your own prissy little dream world then. Your views just higlight the problem with the "hello" style celeb obsessed brain dead culture that's swamping our nation, while the charts are crawling with Cowell's cruise ship crooners who barely last more than one album . The sad thing is just browsing myspace , there is so much talent out there, made by people who love music ... but the industry prefers to suck Cowells rancid little c*ck. He is helping destroy music, he doesnt create talent , he destroys it . There are no slowburn sucess storys, just quick fix disposable shite, for an audience that demands to be Entertained NOW...The "me ,me, me" generation ....Instead of the Industry targeting downloaders they should target Cowell ....People who love the X-Factor do not love music.

Danni Minogue and her cultural relevance? yes I can see that one being discussed on The Late Review.....

Then again maybe we have the media we deserve ...they say it reflects society
 

Danny_

Forgot my login!
"Gay men", "straight men", and "women"are all useful but flawed concepts which three groups together make up a few billion individual people. All women are not the same, all gay men are not the same, all straight men are not the same. This makes what you wrote completely meaningless, which is fine, but maybe you will be able to see that trying to say that someone promotes stereotypes and then talking about vast groups of people as though they conform to your labels doesn't really work.
I know plenty of gay men who can't stand Kylie. My point was that just because she appeals to a section of gay men in no way absolves her of playing up to men's fantasies. She is just as guilty of doing that to her gay audience as she does to her straight male audience.
 

vpme

New Member
Do you see the quote above, the one which you replied to so passionately below? I wasn't being serious. I regret that you didn't understand this.

Dont worry I forgive you, yes your right I am very passionate about music, and unearthing talent, I even put my hand im my pocket to help give it a platform..... Its rather hard to understand "tone" on t'net, sometimes winking smilies dont quite cut the mustard ;) and I don't think it has a great deal to do with your obviously superior intellect, which is of such gravity that a simple oak-headed prole such as I fails to grasp it everytime. I fear we have the heir to Wilde in our midst ;-P

.... However I think we may have reached an impasse, diametrically opposed on the subject of Kylie. Still each to their own, its always amusing to have a debate. I have no problem with people enjoying Kylie really, in the grand scheme of things its pure ephemera, I just personally don't consider her a pillar of cultural significance, in the same way as say , the Beckhams, dont even get me started on them ! Icons ? Of what ? Consumerism gone mad perhaps ?

Anyway Im off the "do the locomotion" Im sure we can all be friends despite our differences. Anyone like the Smiths ? ;)
 
Last edited:
D

Dave

Guest
I know plenty of gay men who can't stand Kylie. My point was that just because she appeals to a section of gay men in no way absolves her of playing up to men's fantasies. She is just as guilty of doing that to her gay audience as she does to her straight male audience.
You're saying guilty, but she's really only guilty of entertaining people. Playing up to fantasies is what a lot of entertainment, as opposed to art, is all about. Even if her celebrity does steal attention from those that are more worthy, in her case I don't see that as anything sinister.

There is this whole other question of whether people are aware of other choices, or even aware enough to want other choices, but I can separate that. I do understand when fans feel betrayed by the commercialization of an artist, but I also think that it's a little naive.

Music is sacred, I think, but I'm not sure it's possible to understand the pressures to sell yourself when you are a pop star. Some resist and some don't.
 

Sister Rose

A little older, wiser
Awww I like Kylie! She's awesome, love her music and style. I don't believe I've ever heard her say a mean word about anyone. Naughty Morrissey!! :p
 

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.


Why you such a meanie!!!! :D
 
Tags
austratastic!
Top Bottom