Morrissey on Minogue

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
sʎoq doɥs ʇəd əɥʇ ɥʇıʍ pəpɹoɔəɹ llɐ əʌ,ʎəɥʇ

How on earth did you do this? This is more miraculous than walking on water!
 
D

Deleted member 969

Guest
Red:
I am not calling Kylie a slag.

I am not suggesting that beautiful women are bad.

I am saying that beautiful women should not be given praise and success because they are beautiful. Beauty is something that they were born with and had no part in achieving...And the halo effect is very well-known.

I would consider many women that I know and like to be beautiful, but the reason I like them is for their character. I do not judge people for their looks whether they are attractive or not.

Your list of experiences became unbearable for me to read- I found it extremely distressing, but in a way what I am fighting for is the same as you; we just disagree over the idea that women being repeatedly shown in a sexual way leads to liberation. I believe that women being portrayed as sexual beings leads to the idea that their ROLE is to please sexually. Yes, women can be sexy, but this is not the reason for their existence! It should not be expected of us.

With the repeated portrayal of sexual women comes a sort of desensitisation, a lack of respect for women's bodies, and in the end the idea that women are things to own, pieces of meat that men have the RIGHT to violate. I don't believe that men are any worse than women, or that they are stupid and easy to manipulate, but what I do believe is that those few men with abhorrent views on women have their ideas supported by the media- and in reality, people are a lot more suggestible than many would believe.
 
D

Dave

Guest
How on earth did you do this? This is more miraculous than walking on water!
you have to hold the keyboard upsidedown
Paging an exorcist. Is there an exorcist in the house?
somehow that reminds me of this picture of Linda Blair I saw in an old Creem magazine. She's about 14 and is hanging out with the members of Lynyrd Skynyrd.
 

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
whatever do you mean, pieces of meat?


I prefer to preserve my body for my lover. I wear t-shirts and non revealing clothing in public, I don't shake my ass and I certainly don't dance like these ladies. But part of me thinks that these thong thumping women (who I imagine are actually accomplished dancers) should be able to have an avenue to display their talent. Girating your booty like that can't be easy and these girls have it down, it's rather interesting to watch. And the optimist in me thinks that R Kelly acknowledges the devilishness of his song in the final scenes when the bodies become dark and oily, and the lighting becomes sinister. At one point he plays on of the girls like a puppet. I mean I hope he's not suggesting this be a full-time value system, but rather a homage to the obvious: girls shaking their butts is f***ing sexy.

Keep in mind I 'm also a regular frinker. What's to say that I'm not completely objectifying Morrissey's body in the same way?
 
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CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
i'm in no way making an argument in regards to the talent of these women, the value of the dance or the moral high ground of should one engage in dancing like this but rather i think this illustrates the point of 'pieces of meat'. their faces aren't seen (or rarely and out of focus), in most places they are cropped off. the dark scenes towards the end with fluroscent clothing accentuates only their bits. the camera angle is from below, behind, or from the top.

betty friedan would be rolling in her grave.

as a 'frinker' i don't think you are. morrissey is not faceless to you. he comes with a personality and character. there is no fault in finding someone attractive or sexy but to totally reduce them from what makes them human to a shaking pair of breasts or cheeks i find disturbing. in the frink thread do you just have pictures of random bits that you ogle over regardless to whom they belong?

all i know is that young girls watching this would be getting a distorted view of their role as women in a society. one video does no harm but it is the accumulated information from skanky childrenwear to music, to ads, to celebrities and their eating disorder of the month, posh spice and her rockmelon breasts that has such a massive impact. kids as young as 7 are dieting and hating parts of their bodies. mother's are caught in the trap too, constantly judging and criticising their own appearance. is there any wonder why teenagers are one of the highest groups in society having plastic surgery?

i realise this a total hijack and i apologise.

This isn't a hijack. We were discussing Kylie Minogue's role as a sex symbol. You picked a perfect example of faceless bodies flaunted for the purpose of ogling and I find your argument compelling. Nothing disturbs me more than little girls dressed like skanks and women bemoaning their perfectly healthy-looking bodies. (I bitch about my own body but it's because I'm flabby which is different than full-figured and sveldt. I just need to be healthier and take it our on my looks. But anyway...) One time I went to the midstate fair on the evening that Britney Spears was singing. Hoards of tiny 6 to 13 year-olds were filing in to see her sing dressed like hookers. I couldn't believe it. They were just getting snazzed up for a night out, like an adult. It's impossible to say where to draw the line because I don't think it's realistic to expect pop stars to wear habits, but "culture" and "media influence" have a tremendous impact on the way women and girls view their bodies and roles in society. These are not new claims but I think there need to be more choices for the youth of today to assimilate and identify with. Imagine a Hannah Montana who in addition to having fun on stage likes to read books and help her neighbors. That sort of thing.
 

chica

v2.0
of course, raunchy lyrics aren't a new thing. have a listen to bessie smith's 'i need a little sugar in my bowl' or diniah washington's 'long john blues'. sexuality had its place as a part of life but now it seems that it is life and the extent to which we see it, perceive it seems to be constantly on the rise (pardon the pun). you open a magazine and you see britney spears or 'firecrotch' going commando, celebrities release sex tapes intentonally in order to revive sagging careers. i, personally, can't help but wonder how much further can i go? am i old fashioned? maybe. i don't when that happened.

And there were never so many obese people. What feels good is available now (and it wasn't so available 30 years ago). Of course people are going to overindulge in it. The only boundaries are those we set for ourselves, and that results in no boundaries at all, because it's not in our nature to deny ourselves little or big pleasures. That's how we evolved - eat/mate whenever you can.
 

Jukebox Jury

Retired
okay let the flames start for what i am about to post next. it is only one example and yes, it's nearly 30 years old and times change blah, blah, blah but this is what i saw as a young child.


it's pop, the women aren't dressed as nuns, it's fun and to a young child, innocent. these women were seen as sex symbols so it's by no means asexual or puritan. there is no sultry gazing into the camera, pouted lips nor is the primary aim to 'seduce' the viewer.

of course, raunchy lyrics aren't a new thing. have a listen to bessie smith's 'i need a little sugar in my bowl' or diniah washington's 'long john blues'. sexuality had its place as a part of life but now it seems that it is life and the extent to which we see it, perceive it seems to be constantly on the rise (pardon the pun). you open a magazine and you see britney spears or 'firecrotch' going commando, celebrities release sex tapes intentonally in order to revive sagging careers. i, personally, can't help but wonder how much further can i go? am i old fashioned? maybe. i don't when that happened.

jeane
I never saw the Nolans as sex objects:eek: NEVER:D
But the rest of it I agree with. Especially the alleged Posh Spice bits you mentioned. You are correct, celebs definately do tip off the press as to their antics. Bad press? There is no such thing as bad publicity, it certainly does help shift records.....:mad:

Jukebox Jury
 
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CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
And there were never so many obese people. What feels good is available now (and it wasn't so available 30 years ago). Of course people are going to overindulge in it. The only boundaries are those we set for ourselves, and that results in no boundaries at all, because it's not in our nature to deny ourselves little or big pleasures. That's how we evolved - eat/mate whenever you can.

Good point.
 

redpathetic

Somehow Anesthetized
Red:
I am not calling Kylie a slag.

I am not suggesting that beautiful women are bad.

I am saying that beautiful women should not be given praise and success because they are beautiful. Beauty is something that they were born with and had no part in achieving...And the halo effect is very well-known.

I would consider many women that I know and like to be beautiful, but the reason I like them is for their character. I do not judge people for their looks whether they are attractive or not.

Your list of experiences became unbearable for me to read- I found it extremely distressing, but in a way what I am fighting for is the same as you; we just disagree over the idea that women being repeatedly shown in a sexual way leads to liberation. I believe that women being portrayed as sexual beings leads to the idea that their ROLE is to please sexually. Yes, women can be sexy, but this is not the reason for their existence! It should not be expected of us.

With the repeated portrayal of sexual women comes a sort of desensitisation, a lack of respect for women's bodies, and in the end the idea that women are things to own, pieces of meat that men have the RIGHT to violate. I don't believe that men are any worse than women, or that they are stupid and easy to manipulate, but what I do believe is that those few men with abhorrent views on women have their ideas supported by the media- and in reality, people are a lot more suggestible than many would believe.
Kylie is not the most physically beautiful woman I've ever seen. I do like her character. I've seen many sexy women but just as I've seen many sexy or beautiful men, I don't listen to their music often just because of that. I listen to Kylie frequently because I find her to be refreshingly positive about having a pulse.
 

Kilt Uncle

Active Member
Some Kind Of Bliss was a great tune...:)

Music by James and Sean from the Manics...:guitar:
 

redpathetic

Somehow Anesthetized
Dear Mr. Morrissey You taking this crap attitude toward Kylie that all 'intellectuals' take, well, it makes me cringe. I was enjoying watching the latest crappy ( technically speaking ) recordings of you in concert in Madrid and Tel Aviv, U N T I L I heard you mouth off about Kylie again, AGAIN! I appreciate your seriousness, it is your song Meat Is Murder that guilt tripped me into committing to being vegetarian and I adore you for that. I know you're right about that. I've done some research, quite a bit, on nutrition and I am convinced that humans are healthiest on a vegan diet. That's right, no cheese or eggs even. No animals, not even their tit milk, mildewed into cheese, or their unhatched offspring. Sometimes I give into temptation on these, but I no longer am tempted to eat any carcass that was once an animated sentient being with a nervous system.

Just because I like your seriousness about such causes, does not mean that Kylie Minogue should be put down though. Kylie in her way is also an activist in ways that are not as obvious as your anti-animal cruelty artwork. It feels like you are being cruel when you put Kylie down, inferring her to be a crashing bore in Tel Aviv...oy, I couldn't enjoy watching those clips of you after I heard you say that. I didn't like to look at photos of you either, after you said that about her, because I know that if you find her boring, then you sure don't understand her or me, and I can't help but feel you are hypocritical...James Dean is good and Kylie Minogue is bad? Please get off your pedestal, and make some kind of apology, or, continue on with this and, be, what seems to me, compartmentalized to a degree that makes you, just another crashing bore in the sense that I feel hated, through your hatred of Kylie.

I could still be civil with you, but I can't relax and enjoy you when you have this prejudice.

I know you likely won't understand this, because Kylie is likely just tits and ass to you. She is oh so much deeper than that to me. It's a primal logic to me, that she has been taking a stand for, despite how commercially successful and how mainstream.

I'm ready, to continue on being deemed a vain flake. By people like you. There are many, in the sense I refer to.
 

redpathetic

Somehow Anesthetized
At the end of singing 'crashing bores', he rants about having been everywhere and that there are crashing bores everywhere, ...and then he repeats 'kylie minogue', a few times:mad:, all the while wearing a playboy t-shirt with a typical photo of a female sex doll. I think I will cut down drastically on my Morrissey intake. He's toxic.

 
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Jones

Senior Member
God! If it upsets you that much that Morrissey doesn't appreciate your precious Kylie, go and find a Kylie forum where everyone will be wittering on like you about how soulful and meaningful she is.

People on here don't care.
 
Maybe Morrissey doesn't like the fluffy pop Kylie stands for.
Maybe he's a teeny bit jealous of her popularity/success.
Maybe he's right.
Maybe he's just looking to cause a fuss to get talked about, or to maintain his "controversial" image.
Maybe it's just old-fashioned displacement.

Who knows?
But we do know Morrissey is going to keep on slagging off successful women (and men) because it's on his agenda.

I don't have to take it seriously, it's only an opinion.
 

redpathetic

Somehow Anesthetized
God! If it upsets you that much that Morrissey doesn't appreciate your precious Kylie, go and find a Kylie forum where everyone will be wittering on like you about how soulful and meaningful she is.

People on here don't care.
A support group for Kylie fans sounds good. Thanks for being level headed for me:}
 

Sunbags

Sunbags
At the end of singing 'crashing bores', he rants about having been everywhere and that there are crashing bores everywhere, ...and then he repeats 'kylie minogue', a few times:mad:, all the while wearing a playboy t-shirt with a typical photo of a female sex doll. I think I will cut down drastically on my Morrissey intake. He's toxic.


It is so annoying that he goes on about Kylie, Madonna and Britney (but never Justin Timberlake, Kanye West or Mika). But you just know that if he ever met Kylie or any of those three he would not be brave enough to tell them what he really thought of them to their face. He just hides behind his entourage and Arturo, like the little coward that he is.
 
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Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
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