Morrissey mention in Dec. SELECT

[Wonder Girl]

In the December issue of Select magazine, on pages 12-13, there is a large article (basically a cluster-diagram really) which illustrates the international appeal of some artists and music to people from unexpected geographical locations around the globe.

For those in the Los Angeles area, there is a mention of Cafe Bleu under the section titled "Californian Brit-Pop." There is an accompanying photo of a presumably American couple wearing the union jack on their shirts--something I've always found odd, but whatever.

There is also a mention of Morrissey's hispanic fans in Los Angeles. Under the article is an accompanying black and white photo of a singing Jose, from The Sweet and Tender Hooligans. This section is cleverly titled, "Hispanic Morrissey Devotees."

Here is a transcription of the paragraph-long bit:

"In Britain he be a weird old geezer with an interest in criminals and flower-arranging, but among the Hispanic community in sunny Los Angeles Moz is still God. None are more devout than The Sweet and Tender Hooligans, the tribute act fronted by Jose R Maldonado [inset]. 'No-one loves him as much as we do,' says the Mexican Mozzer. 'Most Hispanic-Americans come from working class backgrounds not unlike the first-generation Irish immigrants into England--maybe we relate to Morrissey because his upbringing was so much like ours.'
www.angelfire.com/80s/morrissey/index2.html"

Morrissey is mentioned again in a UK magazine! I'd say he's on a roll.

 

[suzanne]

> There is also a mention of Morrissey's hispanic fans in Los
> Angeles. Under the article is an accompanying black and white
> photo of a singing Jose, from The Sweet and Tender Hooligans.
> This section is cleverly titled, "Hispanic Morrissey
> Devotees."

urgh. you can try all your life to be famous for something original that you've done and now i realize all you have to do is form a tribute band. i've decided i'm going to form the Teutonic version of TLC. I can do a Nico impersonation but know no German. Does anyone want to join?

 

[Wonder Girl]

Morrissey from Vaudeville

> urgh. you can try all your life to be famous for something
> original that you've done and now i realize all you have to do
> is form a tribute band. i've decided i'm going to form the
> Teutonic version of TLC. I can do a Nico impersonation but know
> no German. Does anyone want to join?

I'm glad you said something first. I was surprised by all the attention given to him lately as well, but I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to say anything. I can't recall another occasion when a tribute band's frontman was given any lines (or a photograph for that matter) in an international magazine and huge local paper like he has lately. But it's all fair enough I suppose. I don't know Jose, so I don't want to be mean but it's strange to think that he's gained some fame (now trans-Atlantic) by pretending to be someone else (not to mention someone who is still alive and performing). But I guess it's not his fault that his band's become popular. "Tribute" performances are one thing, but to establish a second career on them seems... wrong. Not morally or anything, but I can't think of another word to describe it. I suppose the thought of it offends my sense of artistry, and the belief that pinchbecks shouldn't be afforded the same attention that true, struggling artists are given (in this case it seems the ersatz were given more). But in Mr. Maldonado's defence, none of this is his fault, and he does seem to be sincere. I think there are a lot of good things to say about the Hooligans playing Smiths music live, but I have to wonder if he's embarassed by the attention at all. I guess it would all come down to whether or not he considers himself as having real artistic integrity or reconciles himself to being just a figurehead of a vaudeville act.

 

[Folly]

Re: Morrissey from Vaudeville

> one thing, but to establish a second career on them seems...
> wrong. Not morally or anything, but I can't think of another
> word to describe it.

It just seemed plain ol' funky to me. Not wrong- I think you are on the right track though. Like I said earlier, I went to see them once, and it was a good show, but I won't plan on it again. It did seem a tad insulting somehow...but all the same, as a survivor of the experience I will say it hasn't made me grit my teeth yet- just those damned opening bands...my GOD, they were something else! :::blech:::

 

[suzanne]

Re: Morrissey from Vaudeville

But don't you see why he gets the international recognition?

They're all articles about Moz's hispanic following. What more boring way to illustrate that he has one by saying that the guy who fronts a Smith's cover band is hispanic? it's like, "hey, he's higher profile and is hispanic...lets run with it." Which also leaves out the fact that he might be the only hispanic guy with a Smiths' cover band in the entire United States and the rest of them might be Japanese for all we know.

> I'm glad you said something first. I was surprised by all the
> attention given to him lately as well, but I wasn't sure if it
> was appropriate to say anything. I can't recall another occasion
> when a tribute band's frontman was given any lines (or a
> photograph for that matter) in an international magazine and
> huge local paper like he has lately. But it's all fair enough I
> suppose. I don't know Jose, so I don't want to be mean but it's
> strange to think that he's gained some fame (now trans-Atlantic)
> by pretending to be someone else (not to mention someone who is
> still alive and performing). But I guess it's not his fault that
> his band's become popular. "Tribute" performances are
> one thing, but to establish a second career on them seems...
> wrong. Not morally or anything, but I can't think of another
> word to describe it. I suppose the thought of it offends my
> sense of artistry, and the belief that pinchbecks shouldn't be
> afforded the same attention that true, struggling artists are
> given (in this case it seems the ersatz were given more). But in
> Mr. Maldonado's defence, none of this is his fault, and he does
> seem to be sincere. I think there are a lot of good things to
> say about the Hooligans playing Smiths music live, but I have to
> wonder if he's embarassed by the attention at all. I guess it
> would all come down to whether or not he considers himself as
> having real artistic integrity or reconciles himself to being
> just a figurehead of a vaudeville act.

 

[Wonder Girl]

Re: Morrissey from Vaudeville

> But don't you see why he gets the international recognition?

> They're all articles about Moz's hispanic following. What more
> boring way to illustrate that he has one by saying that the guy
> who fronts a Smith's cover band is hispanic? it's like,
> "hey, he's higher profile and is hispanic...lets run with
> it." Which also leaves out the fact that he might be the
> only hispanic guy with a Smiths' cover band in the entire United
> States and the rest of them might be Japanese for all we know.

Yeah, I understand it, but I don't like it. It just seems so odd that Jose is so prominently featured in both the Los Angeles Times and Select like he is, despite the fact that he's hispanic and fronting his band of Hooligans. I know it's not by his own machination that his face is being used as a symbol of Morrissey's Hispanic following, but whatever the reasons why he was used, the end result seems odd to me.

Fine, so he's both Hispanic and a Moz impressionist. Big deal. To me, the fact that he's a singer in a cover band means he's probably a fan, and the fact that he's Hispanic is just incidental, on which you and I both seem to agree.

I'll just be forthright since there's no point in talking around it. Since we're on the topic, to me it just seems kind of stupid and embarassing for Jose Maldonado to even consent to speaking with any reporters who approach him about doing a story on him and his cover band in the name of all Hispanics' feelings toward Morrissey. I'm sure people are polarized on this issue, but the very idea of gaining any sort of recognition above simple playfulness for essentially putting on a costume and pretending to be an icon onstage seems mortifying at best, because it seems like an implicit attempt to elevate your status to some more official level (when you start to garner some real attention for it, that is). I'm sure it's not a deliberate attempt to do so, but it certainly seems that way superficially, and I think Jose would have saved himself some embarrassment by side-stepping the attention which I can't get past the opinion of it being so ludicrous.

I consider myself a creative person. My circle of friends are mainly artists, creative as well, and the thought of being a recognized charlatan is anathema to us. I know, this sounds terrible, and we seem snobs, but I want to be honest. It's not jealousy at all, which I'm sure we'll be accused of since it's the easiest thing to throw in our direction. Like I said in my other post, it just offends my sense of what artists and performers should aspire to. Who am I to make such a judgement call? I'm no one. I admit it. But I still believe, basically, that art is self-expression--key word being "self"--so to see someone donning some other artist's skin and accepting some part of that artist's fan devotion is just... ugly. There's a gray area that Jose Maldonado is dancing across, and I think when this pinchbeck performer begins gaining recognition--I don't know what Select's circulation is, but I believe the LA Times' is over 1 million--for his copycat act, that's embarrassing to me.

I babbled a bit, I'm sorry. Once I started, I guess I was thinking out loud. It all sounds exaggerated when typed out like this, but in the end I don't care much since it's got nothing to do with me. Although it should be said that it's not him but the principle--or at least the appearance of it--that I find so grating.

P.S. Suzanne, would you put that picture of you holding the guitar up with your next post? It's so cute, and everytime I see your name in here, I think of it and now I'm dying to see it again. It's that one where (you told me) you're wearing a wig.

 

[Wonder Girl]

Re: Morrissey from Vaudeville

> It just seemed plain ol' funky to me. Not wrong- I think you are
> on the right track though. Like I said earlier, I went to see
> them once, and it was a good show, but I won't plan on it again.
> It did seem a tad insulting somehow...but all the same, as a
> survivor of the experience I will say it hasn't made me grit my
> teeth yet- just those damned opening bands...my GOD, they were
> something else! :::blech:::

Hi Folly. I guess "wrong" wasn't quite the right word, but I think I explained myself (at too great a length actually!) in my response to Suzanne below. I know it's just a totally personal opinion, and I by no means feel that I am indubitably correct, but I feel pretty strongly about the issue of artist/performer integrity since it's so personal to me, as well as many around me.

I don't really have a problem with tribute bands at all--I think they can be great fun--but when the head Hooligan began to receive featured articles on him and his band, a brow or two had to be raised. I may seem like I'm being a bit harsh with the poor guy, and maybe I am, maybe I owe him an apology for not softening my opinions, but i can't help but feel a little embarrassed everytime I think of the whole Hooligan situation. Although, even to call it a "situation" is overblown. I don't want to give everyone the impression that I think about this night and day.

 

[Folly]

Re: Morrissey from Vaudeville

> Hi Folly. I guess "wrong" wasn't quite the right word,
> but I think I explained myself (at too great a length actually!)
> in my response to Suzanne below. I know it's just a totally
> personal opinion, and I by no means feel that I am indubitably
> correct, but I feel pretty strongly about the issue of
> artist/performer integrity since it's so personal to me, as well
> as many around me.

And you have every right to feel strongly on that subject- as I said, it was fun to see them, but something in me felt queasy on the way home, and it wasn't the alcohol, either.

> Although, even to call it a "situation" is overblown.
> I don't want to give everyone the impression that I think about
> this night and day.

And I don't suspect you do. But I agree that it is odd that they get any coverage, but I think it is an interesting point of view for a few fans, and maybe that is why they are being written up the way they have been? I dunno...Also having to do with the fact that Morrissey seems to be working on things other than music right now, and that it when he holds any true appeal to the media. :::throwing out some lines:::

Half-hearted, and quite ill today, Ta-ta

 

[Folly]

Re: Morrissey from Vaudeville

> P.S. Suzanne, would you put that picture of you holding the
> guitar up with your next post? It's so cute, and everytime I see
> your name in here, I think of it and now I'm dying to see it
> again. It's that one where (you told me) you're wearing a wig.

Yes, yes, please do...I seem to remember that one as well- but What is with all the Audrey Hepburn/ Humphry Bogart, et al pics, Wonder Girl? I mean they are wonder-ful! But just wondering if you have a dislike of either actor/actress or something!

 

[suzanne]

Re: Morrissey from Vaudeville

Yay, it's thanksgiving! Sleeping in late.....food....trying not to barf when you see the Macy's thanksgiving day parade....

> Yeah, I understand it, but I don't like it. It just seems so odd
> that Jose is so prominently featured in both the Los Angeles
> Times and Select like he is, despite the fact that he's hispanic
> and fronting his band of Hooligans. I know it's not by his own
> machination that his face is being used as a symbol of
> Morrissey's Hispanic following, but whatever the reasons why he
> was used, the end result seems odd to me.

Isn't it. And what exactly drove all this to find a connection? That Morrissey got up on stage during his last tour and started singing "Mexico Mexico Mexico" over and over again?

To me, even when I first heard of the Sweet and Tender Hooligans, I thought absolutely nothing about what sort of ethnicity was behind the band. People like El Vez obviously throw it in your face as part of the act, but how many other tribute bands in general have hispanic members? I'm not going to spend my life running around in shock that some hispanics like an English white guy.

> Fine, so he's both Hispanic and a Moz impressionist. Big deal.
> To me, the fact that he's a singer in a cover band means he's
> probably a fan, and the fact that he's Hispanic is just
> incidental, on which you and I both seem to agree.

> I'll just be forthright since there's no point in talking around
> it. Since we're on the topic, to me it just seems kind of stupid
> and embarassing for Jose Maldonado to even consent to speaking
> with any reporters who approach him about doing a story on him
> and his cover band in the name of all Hispanics' feelings toward
> Morrissey. I'm sure people are polarized on this issue, but the
> very idea of gaining any sort of recognition above simple
> playfulness for essentially putting on a costume and pretending
> to be an icon onstage seems mortifying at best, because it seems
> like an implicit attempt to elevate your status to some more
> official level (when you start to garner some real attention for
> it, that is). I'm sure it's not a deliberate attempt to do so,
> but it certainly seems that way superficially, and I think Jose
> would have saved himself some embarrassment by side-stepping the
> attention which I can't get past the opinion of it being so
> ludicrous.

honestly, sometimes I think it would be interesting to be in a tribute band. I can't fault that. Not everyone who gets into music and who can play is starworthy in their own right and many of them don't want to go through the dreck of being a viable and established artist, so why not have fun with it?

And I can see why he did the interview. I mean, your entire life, people pretty much ignore you as being the mass of nobodies, and suddenly, someone wants to interview you for their paper. You can't help but be flattered by that.

> I consider myself a creative person. My circle of friends are
> mainly artists, creative as well, and the thought of being a
> recognized charlatan is anathema to us. I know, this sounds
> terrible, and we seem snobs, but I want to be honest. It's not
> jealousy at all, which I'm sure we'll be accused of since it's
> the easiest thing to throw in our direction. Like I said in my
> other post, it just offends my sense of what artists and
> performers should aspire to. Who am I to make such a judgement
> call? I'm no one. I admit it. But I still believe, basically,
> that art is self-expression--key word being "self"--so
> to see someone donning some other artist's skin and accepting
> some part of that artist's fan devotion is just... ugly. There's
> a gray area that Jose Maldonado is dancing across, and I think
> when this pinchbeck performer begins gaining recognition--I
> don't know what Select's circulation is, but I believe the LA
> Times' is over 1 million--for his copycat act, that's
> embarrassing to me.

But think of the LA times and how they cater to the dunderheads. Working for the media, I know that most of the institutions aren't interested in bringing new ideas to people. It could have been a slow news week, and how many people are actually going to read that entire article?

> I babbled a bit, I'm sorry. Once I started, I guess I was
> thinking out loud. It all sounds exaggerated when typed out like
> this, but in the end I don't care much since it's got nothing to
> do with me. Although it should be said that it's not him but the
> principle--or at least the appearance of it--that I find so
> grating.

> P.S. Suzanne, would you put that picture of you holding the
> guitar up with your next post? It's so cute, and everytime I see
> your name in here, I think of it and now I'm dying to see it
> again. It's that one where (you told me) you're wearing a wig.

i have a fan of my sally jessy raphael pic? heh. well, here's the link to it below.

I guess my positions on all of this have changed because I haven't been tackling a 'music career' for about a year. I hadn't written a song in about 9 months and i feel like i'm bone dry. I feel like there ought to be a way to make music enjoyable because the way the whole business is set up, it's not really designed to inspire confidence or pleasure in those who perform the music. I know that 4/5 of the time when I either left the stage or dealt with booking agents, I felt worse about myself. If people like Jose can find that track to where they can connect with the audiences and feed off of it, and they can retain and build upon the love they have for music, then i'm all for it.




pics and stuff

 

[Wonder Girl]

The mayor of Vaudeville

> And you have every right to feel strongly on that subject- as I
> said, it was fun to see them, but something in me felt queasy on
> the way home, and it wasn't the alcohol, either.

I suppose it would all depend on how the audience takes it since, like I said, the Hooligans do seem sincere. I only want to speak for myself when I say that I don't have a problem with tribute acts as a rule, but there is a caveat: that the tribute acts know what they are and not cross the line into the behaviour of a proper band. I hate saying that because I know how terrible it sounds, but it's what's honestly inside of me. If I were in a tribute band, I would be dodging any and all individual attention that I might receive as a result of my performing, and certainly I would run (with very long steps) from any reporters who'd like to interview me at any short or long length.

I can deal with the fact that The Sweet and Tender Hooligans is a labour of love, but again, it should be remembered that it's a silly act in the end. If you start taking yourself seriously, I'd say that lines have been crossed. I don't mean to sound so harsh about all this, I think maybe a lot of this stuff is best left unsaid, or whispered into the ears of friends, but as there aren't any other proper discussions on this board, let's just go with it eh?

> And I don't suspect you do. But I agree that it is odd that they
> get any coverage, but I think it is an interesting point of view
> for a few fans, and maybe that is why they are being written up
> the way they have been? I dunno...Also having to do with the
> fact that Morrissey seems to be working on things other than
> music right now, and that it when he holds any true appeal to
> the media. :::throwing out some lines:::

I agree, in the end it's good to see good ol' Morrissey's name in the magazines again. But I'm not really complaining about the coverage so much as I have a problem with this phony being interviewed as if he were a real artist.

> Half-hearted, and quite ill today, Ta-ta

Feel better Folly.

 

[Wonder Girl]

Morrissey from Vaudeville

> Yes, yes, please do...I seem to remember that one as well- but
> What is with all the Audrey Hepburn/ Humphry Bogart, et al pics,
> Wonder Girl? I mean they are wonder-ful! But just wondering if
> you have a dislike of either actor/actress or something!

Not at all Folly. Just the opposite actually. I don't care much for Bogey, but Audrey is another story.

 

[Wonder Girl]

Jose "Hooligan" Maldonado

> Yay, it's thanksgiving! Sleeping in late.....food....trying not
> to barf when you see the Macy's thanksgiving day parade....

"Barf." That word has always struck me as funny.

> Isn't it. And what exactly drove all this to find a connection?
> That Morrissey got up on stage during his last tour and started
> singing "Mexico Mexico Mexico" over and over again?

I know. It's wierd. I don't want to discount the fervent interest that Morrissey's Hispanic following has in this town though. I think anytime there are cross-culturally appealing artists it's wonderful, but this journalistic focus on it lately seems strange. If you've read my letter to Folly in the first thread above you understand though, that my issue with all this isn't the cultural stuff, but with Jose Maldonado accepting reporters' questions as if he were some sort of real artist. It's kind of insulting. Even the desire for attention excuse isn't enough for me to not blush at the thought of it. That doesn't mean I don't understand it, but I don't accept it. Not that it's my job to arbitrate performers' worth, but... well, there are a lot of things in life that people would like to do--that's why we have words like "grandstanding"--but in the best interests of self-worth and better taste, we refrain from doing so.

> To me, even when I first heard of the Sweet and Tender
> Hooligans, I thought absolutely nothing about what sort of
> ethnicity was behind the band. People like El Vez obviously
> throw it in your face as part of the act, but how many other
> tribute bands in general have hispanic members? I'm not going to
> spend my life running around in shock that some hispanics like
> an English white guy.

Well I think there's some merit behind at least acknowledging it, and even mentioning that the members of the semi-professional tribute band are Hispanic since that has relevance to the story, but to turn a copycat performer into an interviewee leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The only thing I can come up with is that Jose Maldonado really isn't an artist and is therefore maybe a bit ignorant of what artists aspire to. Now, I'm not one to advocate those who go to great lengths to be different just for the sake of being different, since that takes the rule and exaggerates it, but art is self-expression. And any artist I think would at least take exception to a prancing pretender receiving recognition for his act beyond the cheap entertainment value that they provide.

> honestly, sometimes I think it would be interesting to be in a
> tribute band. I can't fault that. Not everyone who gets into
> music and who can play is starworthy in their own right and many
> of them don't want to go through the dreck of being a viable and
> established artist, so why not have fun with it?

I understand it, and I have no problem with it, but as I said to Folly, these tribute bands should not start taking themselves seriously--being careful of even the appearance of doing so--or they risk the chance of accentuating their own absurdity, which I feel Jose has done.

> And I can see why he did the interview. I mean, your entire
> life, people pretty much ignore you as being the mass of
> nobodies, and suddenly, someone wants to interview you for their
> paper. You can't help but be flattered by that.

Well I think people have merits as people, but in the realm of artists, yeah, different criteria applies. I'll tell you one thing though, I'd not ever want any attention for being the singer of a carbon-copy act. You don't have to tell people that you're a fan. They know it by virtue of your performance. But to break out of the act itself and retain some level of recognition, no matter how meager, is embarassing. There's no other word for it.

> But think of the LA times and how they cater to the dunderheads.
> Working for the media, I know that most of the institutions
> aren't interested in bringing new ideas to people. It could have
> been a slow news week, and how many people are actually going to
> read that entire article?

I don't blame the media really. My opinion is more that the head Hooligan made the mistake. And at the very least, he's opened himself up to all this. i don't think one needs a public relations consultant to understand that being a recognized dissimulator, and then being proud of it is degrading. In the end, ironically, maybe it can be said that Jose is too earnest, and too good at what he does.

> i have a fan of my sally jessy raphael pic? heh. well, here's
> the link to it below.

You have more than one professed fan. Folly seems interested too. Who is Sally Jesse Raphael?

> I guess my positions on all of this have changed because I
> haven't been tackling a 'music career' for about a year. I
> hadn't written a song in about 9 months and i feel like i'm bone
> dry. I feel like there ought to be a way to make music enjoyable
> because the way the whole business is set up, it's not really
> designed to inspire confidence or pleasure in those who perform
> the music. I know that 4/5 of the time when I either left the
> stage or dealt with booking agents, I felt worse about myself.

I think the difficulty of these artistic realms is in a way good, because it prevents the industry from being inundated. Although every once in a while a Hanson manages to get through, I think it's nice in its own vicous way that it's so difficult to make it as an artist. Have you ever tried publishing anything as a "first-time" author? It's brutal.

> If people like Jose can find that track to where they can
> connect with the audiences and feed off of it, and they can
> retain and build upon the love they have for music, then i'm all
> for it.

That's a very positive way to look at it, and I agree with you there. Music is all about expression, and often making connections with people, but again, it's just silly that Jose has lost sight of what The Sweet and Tender Hooligans are.

I've sounded like a bitch for three letters now. I'd better stop it before I'm hated. By the way, good luck with what you're doing at the moment Suzanne. Even if it isn't music, I'm sure it's something else creative. Creative energy has a way of refusing to be checked.

-Cili

 

[suzanne]

Re: Jose "Hooligan" Maldonado

> "Barf." That word has always struck me as funny.

> I know. It's wierd. I don't want to discount the fervent
> interest that Morrissey's Hispanic following has in this town
> though. I think anytime there are cross-culturally appealing
> artists it's wonderful, but this journalistic focus on it lately
> seems strange. If you've read my letter to Folly in the first
> thread above you understand though, that my issue with all this
> isn't the cultural stuff, but with Jose Maldonado accepting
> reporters' questions as if he were some sort of real artist.
> It's kind of insulting. Even the desire for attention excuse
> isn't enough for me to not blush at the thought of it. That
> doesn't mean I don't understand it, but I don't accept it. Not
> that it's my job to arbitrate performers' worth, but... well,
> there are a lot of things in life that people would like to
> do--that's why we have words like "grandstanding"--but
> in the best interests of self-worth and better taste, we refrain
> from doing so.

to me it is weird just because a cover band is a cover band. he may have friends in the right places. it may not be so simple as some journalist was suckered into writing about the band. Living in a town where precious review space is given to the journalists' friends, I would buy that more than the whole cashing in on the hispanics angle myself. The hispanic angle was an excuse, more than likely, in this case even though it is a pitiful excuse for an angle.

But we can get on our high horse and demand that the space be given to those who deserve it, but it never happens like that. All the entertainment industry is is one lucky break after another. Even Johnny Marr had the right friends who got him his first shows with the Smiths.

> Well I think there's some merit behind at least acknowledging
> it, and even mentioning that the members of the
> semi-professional tribute band are Hispanic since that has
> relevance to the story, but to turn a copycat performer into an
> interviewee leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The only thing I can
> come up with is that Jose Maldonado really isn't an artist and
> is therefore maybe a bit ignorant of what artists aspire to.
> Now, I'm not one to advocate those who go to great lengths to be
> different just for the sake of being different, since that takes
> the rule and exaggerates it, but art is self-expression. And any
> artist I think would at least take exception to a prancing
> pretender receiving recognition for his act beyond the cheap
> entertainment value that they provide.

> I understand it, and I have no problem with it, but as I said to
> Folly, these tribute bands should not start taking themselves
> seriously--being careful of even the appearance of doing so--or
> they risk the chance of accentuating their own absurdity, which
> I feel Jose has done.

> Well I think people have merits as people, but in the realm of
> artists, yeah, different criteria applies. I'll tell you one
> thing though, I'd not ever want any attention for being the
> singer of a carbon-copy act. You don't have to tell people that
> you're a fan. They know it by virtue of your performance. But to
> break out of the act itself and retain some level of
> recognition, no matter how meager, is embarassing. There's no
> other word for it.

I know, but it looks like they're trying to be a full-fledged act like El Vez is. They actually went on the road with this stuff, and frankly, I still don't care to see it. The whole thing is sort of silly. It's funny how we can even toss his name around here and everyone knows who we're talking about.

> I don't blame the media really. My opinion is more that the head
> Hooligan made the mistake. And at the very least, he's opened
> himself up to all this. i don't think one needs a public
> relations consultant to understand that being a recognized
> dissimulator, and then being proud of it is degrading. In the
> end, ironically, maybe it can be said that Jose is too earnest,
> and too good at what he does.

> You have more than one professed fan. Folly seems interested
> too. Who is Sally Jesse Raphael?

Who I'm dressed up as!

American talkshow host. That was a halloween pic ya know.

> I think the difficulty of these artistic realms is in a way
> good, because it prevents the industry from being inundated.
> Although every once in a while a Hanson manages to get through,
> I think it's nice in its own vicous way that it's so difficult
> to make it as an artist. Have you ever tried publishing anything
> as a "first-time" author? It's brutal.

Close. I did write 'a book' if you want to call it that and I sent bits and pieces to backwaterish publishers. The people who know that Stephen King isn't going to come knocking on their door. They always say in their instructions that you won't hear anything back from them for at least 2 months, but my rejection letters came back so quick it's almost like they had one in the mail before my stuff even reached their office.

As a first time musician I got a bit more of a bite from them. One guy was offering to produce if i forked over several thousand dollars, and another one was like "i like it, but I don't know what to do with it"

It's 100X easier submitting things to labels and producers than with books. Publishers are incredibly picky about wanting a synopsis or chapter by chapter outline which is too much effort as you spend hours typing out not only the cover letters, but the exact information they are looking for when you know they aren't really going to give you a fair shot anyway.

Is that lazy? To some people, yes. But I feel like I'm getting too old to be investing loads of time into those sort of things. I feel like I've already wasted too much time on things that don't go anywhere anyway, and at this point if I had to publish a book or CD, I think i would self publish it and forget about all of the rest of it. Those other things are hell bent on wasting your time for no good reason.

> That's a very positive way to look at it, and I agree with you
> there. Music is all about expression, and often making
> connections with people, but again, it's just silly that Jose
> has lost sight of what The Sweet and Tender Hooligans are.

eh? oh well.

> I've sounded like a bitch for three letters now. I'd better stop
> it before I'm hated. By the way, good luck with what you're
> doing at the moment Suzanne. Even if it isn't music, I'm sure
> it's something else creative. Creative energy has a way of
> refusing to be checked.

i dont know. i hadn't really done much to speak of in quite a while.

 

[Abrahan "Palare" Garza]

I agree with Cici. Re: Jose "Hooligan" Maldonado

I agree with you Cici.

Abrahan Garza
Houston, Texas


MozRacer's HomePage

 

[Wonder Girl]

Re: Jose "Hooligan" Maldonado

> But we can get on our high horse and demand that the space be
> given to those who deserve it, but it never happens like that.
> All the entertainment industry is is one lucky break after
> another. Even Johnny Marr had the right friends who got him his
> first shows with the Smiths.

But I'd never consider what Jose has "achieved" as any sort of lucky break. That is, unless being a certified wannabe is his ultimate goal. God, I hope that isn't true because it's too sad. You know, if this is the case, I almost wish him luck with his endeavors because it's so pitiful. Imagine, some of us struggle and struggle with calibrating our own individual styles, art, and lives. Think of how disheartening it would be to fail at being even an ersatz individual. I understand that we all have people whom we look up to for various reasons, and in limited capacities, but to fully wrap yourself in a single artist's shadow--and loving it--is just vitiation. For anyone older than thirteen, that is.

> I know, but it looks like they're trying to be a full-fledged
> act like El Vez is. They actually went on the road with this
> stuff, and frankly, I still don't care to see it.

Wait a minute. Suzanne, are you being serious? The Sweet and Tender Hooligans actually toured? This is too much. I never knew this, and if this is true, then the Hooligans are ludicrously ludicrous. This newly found fact only serves to make the head Hooligan even more laughable in his newfound attention. Ack. I can't believe it. I can't believe they've actually gone on tour. I wonder if Jose, at least in moments during his performances, believes that he might really deserve that attention.

> The whole
> thing is sort of silly. It's funny how we can even toss his name
> around here and everyone knows who we're talking about.

I never knew who he was until I started coming here.

> Who I'm dressed up as!

That photograph is so cute Suzanne.

> American talkshow host. That was a halloween pic ya know.

I found out who Sally Jesse Raphael is. I asked someone yesterday, and I was laughed at for not knowing. :-(

> As a first time musician I got a bit more of a bite from them.
> One guy was offering to produce if i forked over several
> thousand dollars, and another one was like "i like it, but
> I don't know what to do with it"

There are a lot of thieves, self-servers, and amateurs out there.

> Is that lazy? To some people, yes. But I feel like I'm getting
> too old to be investing loads of time into those sort of things.
> I feel like I've already wasted too much time on things that
> don't go anywhere anyway, and at this point if I had to publish
> a book or CD, I think i would self publish it and forget about
> all of the rest of it. Those other things are hell bent on
> wasting your time for no good reason.

I've felt exasperated to that point as well, but I also realize that, in the end, I'm doing just what I would be doing regardless of success or no success. Of course I'd like recognition for what I love to do, but even if that doesn't come, I'll always be writing if simply for the fact that I love to do it so dearly. When you wear the "professional" hat for too long, I find it's easy to forget the purity of the catalyst for the art in the first place. It's ugly, what the bourgeois universe can do to a person. It rots one's heart. I think we've all got our jobs to do. When a person stacks the hats too high, they all fall off.

If you're going to self-publish, just be sure to do a lot of research from beginning to end, because there are a lot of pitfalls, obstacles, and headaches that can easily be avoided with careful planning. It's a good lot of work, and my advice is to just know what you're getting into before you commit thousands of your dollars.

> eh? oh well.

Oh, when I said that Jose had lost sight of what the Sweet and Tender Hooligans are, I meant that he had begun to take himself seriously, which transgresses the basic understanding that the Hooligans are nothing more than silly, frivolous entertainment. It's like he wants to be in a band so badly, instead of forming one, killing himself to write quality, and more importantly *original* music, he's just clutching the coat-tails of the the Smiths, and that way he gets to make a quantum leap into the fun of being in a band without any of the pressures. All things told, it's insulting to see; as it should be for any honestly creative person. If it's just fun, it's fun, but if the appearance of the desire for seriousness creeps into the picture, everything goes black.

> i dont know. i hadn't really done much to speak of in quite a
> while.

It really depends on the breadth of the perspective. There have been writers who spent years idle between works. But the intangible work that's being done is still occurring in the subconscious. I believe this is true. So when ideas spontaneously appear in your head, although it seems immediate and arbitrary, it's been brewing in the recesses of the mind, slowly, over time that's determined I believe by your natural rhythms. So you never know Suzanne, you might blow yourself away by an idea that you have that may one day turn the creative world on its ear. The fun for me is in knowing that any creative person has this potential, since there are no limits to imagination. I try to be optimistic. When your mind is open enough, you just never know what'll happen. Nobody in the highest echelons of art have ever known they were going to be there until it happened.

-Cili

 

[Wonder Girl]

It's "Cili."

> I agree with you Cici.

"Cili." Thank you for saying so Abrahan (the "n" is unusual). I was complaining so much, which I did again in the letter I just posted, I was beginning to feel like a @#!!!. Your letter made me feel better.

> Abrahan Garza
> Houston, Texas

Howdy Abe.

Cili Barnes
Los Angeles, California

 

[suzanne]

Re: Jose "Hooligan" Maldonado

> But I'd never consider what Jose has "achieved" as any
> sort of lucky break. That is, unless being a certified wannabe
> is his ultimate goal. God, I hope that isn't true because it's
> too sad. You know, if this is the case, I almost wish him luck
> with his endeavors because it's so pitiful. Imagine, some of us
> struggle and struggle with calibrating our own individual
> styles, art, and lives. Think of how disheartening it would be
> to fail at being even an ersatz individual. I understand that we
> all have people whom we look up to for various reasons, and in
> limited capacities, but to fully wrap yourself in a single
> artist's shadow--and loving it--is just vitiation. For anyone
> older than thirteen, that is.

> Wait a minute. Suzanne, are you being serious? The Sweet and
> Tender Hooligans actually toured? This is too much. I never knew
> this, and if this is true, then the Hooligans are ludicrously
> ludicrous. This newly found fact only serves to make the head
> Hooligan even more laughable in his newfound attention. Ack. I
> can't believe it. I can't believe they've actually gone on tour.
> I wonder if Jose, at least in moments during his performances,
> believes that he might really deserve that attention.

I don't know. All I know is that all of this is making my brain hurt on a level I had never thought of. my return from the UK has not exactly left my brain on some sort of functional level. It feels like it;s floating and trying to grasp pitifully at where it was at before I took off. It's like I'm more horribly jet lagged returning here to a place I've lived for the vast majority of my life than I was going over.

And I don't know if I've been sounding weird or anything, but I feel like I have been. All I know is that today, I almost plowed right in the back of someone's car because I couldn't zero in.

So, with that in mind, I just dont know. Jose could be god, or he could be filling that missing link in someone's life. It's a symptom of how incredibly starved Morrissey's fans are for seeing the real thing. What are we to do when Moz decides to retire or take up wind surfing? I hope it's not like Elvis when we are surrounded by commemorative plates from the Franklin Mint.

yes, they did tour. NOt a major one I dont think, but I believe they did.

> I never knew who he was until I started coming here.

> That photograph is so cute Suzanne.

Thank you.

Another realization I've come across is that everyone seems to like me better outside of Austin. Nobody who has ever looked at me dressed like that around here thought it was cute.

Tell me something, how is Austin such a place for bitterly high standards? It's weird when I leave town to remind me that I still exist.

> I found out who Sally Jesse Raphael is. I asked someone
> yesterday, and I was laughed at for not knowing. :-(

yeah, i did notice it was on british TV. I was trying to find out if Ricki Lake was still ruler of the universe.

> There are a lot of thieves, self-servers, and amateurs out
> there.

@#!!!. Every institution is full of @#!!!heads. The ones with money I believe have more fun making people jump through their hoops than they do making any sort of difference.

And why don't they just be honest about it? I realize that they hate losing their money as the next person, but good grief. Why don't they just go ahead and admit that they are poor decision makers that can't decide if something is truly good or not unless someone else ordains it as such? And more so, why should I spend my time trying to flag down these same people? They're insecure. Why kick me in the teeth with their crude ways of doing business when all it is is a thin shell for the fact they have nothing else going for them beyond their ability to shoot down people?

> I've felt exasperated to that point as well, but I also realize
> that, in the end, I'm doing just what I would be doing
> regardless of success or no success. Of course I'd like
> recognition for what I love to do, but even if that doesn't
> come, I'll always be writing if simply for the fact that I love
> to do it so dearly. When you wear the "professional"
> hat for too long, I find it's easy to forget the purity of the
> catalyst for the art in the first place. It's ugly, what the
> bourgeois universe can do to a person. It rots one's heart. I
> think we've all got our jobs to do. When a person stacks the
> hats too high, they all fall off.

i know. sometimes, i wonder if i started pushing myself too early to get out there and do something. it suddenly becomes a matter of what everyone else thinks. It sounds so good in your bedroom or in your head or in your bathroom or on your typewriter, but at the same time, what sort of measure do you have? Getting feedback from anyone is such a bastard because they have all of their little angles thrown in.

So, I've come to the conclusion, albeit way too late to make a difference, is that you should write your stuff and let someone discover it after you die. Like Emily Dickens.

think about it: most artists don't receive any money in their lifetime, and the journalists can't dig you up and ask you retarded questions.

> If you're going to self-publish, just be sure to do a lot of
> research from beginning to end, because there are a lot of
> pitfalls, obstacles, and headaches that can easily be avoided
> with careful planning. It's a good lot of work, and my advice is
> to just know what you're getting into before you commit
> thousands of your dollars.

That was more hypothetical than anything else. I haven't seriously looked into that possibility either way.

> Oh, when I said that Jose had lost sight of what the Sweet and
> Tender Hooligans are, I meant that he had begun to take himself
> seriously, which transgresses the basic understanding that the
> Hooligans are nothing more than silly, frivolous entertainment.
> It's like he wants to be in a band so badly, instead of forming
> one, killing himself to write quality, and more importantly
> *original* music, he's just clutching the coat-tails of the the
> Smiths, and that way he gets to make a quantum leap into the fun
> of being in a band without any of the pressures. All things
> told, it's insulting to see; as it should be for any honestly
> creative person. If it's just fun, it's fun, but if the
> appearance of the desire for seriousness creeps into the
> picture, everything goes black.

what they are, what they could be, what they were.....

i could complain, but who am i to stop people from shelling out $7 cover to go see them? what in the hell else are they going to do with their evenings?

> It really depends on the breadth of the perspective. There have
> been writers who spent years idle between works. But the
> intangible work that's being done is still occurring in the
> subconscious. I believe this is true. So when ideas
> spontaneously appear in your head, although it seems immediate
> and arbitrary, it's been brewing in the recesses of the mind,
> slowly, over time that's determined I believe by your natural
> rhythms. So you never know Suzanne, you might blow yourself away
> by an idea that you have that may one day turn the creative
> world on its ear. The fun for me is in knowing that any creative
> person has this potential, since there are no limits to
> imagination. I try to be optimistic. When your mind is open
> enough, you just never know what'll happen. Nobody in the
> highest echelons of art have ever known they were going to be
> there until it happened.

yes. creative ideas that get past the people with money.

i'm sorry i'm coming across like I am tonight. you realize that it's the middle of the thanksgiving holidays? you know what I miss? Loading up in my car early from university and driving 6 1/2 hours down the highway listening to Erasure's "Chorus" and the couple of Morrissey albums I had discovered at that point. Then, having my mom do my laundry without my asking and her complaining that I made her do it. Then, seeing my grandparents who had their hopes dashed once again that there was some guy in my life. Then, piling up and watching the episodes of MST3K that I had missed all the while on Comedy Central.

Rosebud.

 

[Abrahán "Palare" Garza]

Howdy? Re: It's "Cili."

About the "howdy." First off, I did not take offense, Cili, but we don't all talk like that in Texas. It's not like Rock Hudson in Giant. About the name, it is in Spanish. "M"s are not annunicated in Spanish. The last "a" has an accent over it.

About Jose Maldomorrissey, I once made a comment about him saying that I wished he would stop making those faces he makes when he is pretending to be Morrissey when it was posted that he was going to be on Judge Joe Brown almost two years ago. He actually emailed me asking "what faces?" What was he so worried about. I know we all carry ourselves in certain ways but I thought it a little too much with the face making. We must speak our minds. Don't feel like an @#!!!, you cannot hide your feelings sometimes.

Abrahán Garza &:^)
Houston, Texas
p.s. email me sometime
> "Cili." Thank you for saying so Abrahan (the
> "n" is unusual). I was complaining so much, which I
> did again in the letter I just posted, I was beginning to feel
> like a @#!!! . Your letter made me feel better.

> Howdy Abe.

> Cili Barnes
> Los Angeles, California




MozRacer's HomePage

 

[nhon]

Re: Jose "Hooligan" Maldonado

> But I'd never consider what Jose has "achieved" as any
> sort of lucky break. That is, unless being a certified wannabe
> is his ultimate goal. God, I hope that isn't true because it's
> too sad. You know, if this is the case, I almost wish him luck
> with his endeavors because it's so pitiful. Imagine, some of us
> struggle and struggle with calibrating our own individual
> styles, art, and lives. Think of how disheartening it would be
> to fail at being even an ersatz individual. I understand that we
> all have people whom we look up to for various reasons, and in
> limited capacities, but to fully wrap yourself in a single
> artist's shadow--and loving it--is just vitiation. For anyone
> older than thirteen, that is.

creativity and arts is more powerful than something that is being "copied".. and that is something i think no one can disagree on..

copied art is something that is rather different.. it is copied becuase it is appreciating the orginal.. even if it is taken on a higher scale.. like a public display .. it is still acknowledged as "copied" and it still appreciates and celebrates the original.. nobody really cares about a copy cat... but people should care that a copy cat does a good job in copying! for example: there is this one particular guy who is well known for his paintings.. he even made it to the papers several times... for many many years.. he sits in his little painting shop and paints pictures of people birds.. bees.. nature.. ect.. and people would stand by his glass windows and watch him paint in amazement.. his paintings are very realistic.. almost like a real photograph.. but all of his paintings are "never" original! they're all copied "exactly" from a photographed that customers give to him to put on canvas!

you are much more powerful than jose in this particular aspect.. that you are creative and you can write your own songs.. but jose is better than you in this aspect.. that he does a better morrissey impersonation than you.

there really isn't any talent on what he does. and this is already acknowledged.. but question of creativity is being questioned and it's really irrevelant.. so therefore the hooligans should be acknowledged as a copycat band.... not a "creative band".. and they dont have to be creative either.. they are a cover band and the nature of cover bands is to "copy"

when one is proud of how well they "copy" something.. then they have every right to be proud of this.. people should applaud the hooligans for doing a well job in "duplicating" smiths/morrissey music.. they are proud of what they do becuase the preach their copied music to the people who enjoys listening to them live.. and reliving the memories... the idea of creativity should never be in question becuase it's something of a different ball game..

they are talented copycatters and they CAN be talented musically if they wanted to. but they choose not to .. they enjoy the fame of copycatting while being fully aware that what they do is not their own creativity but someone elses.. the reason why they choose this fame is becuase they want to bring out what is really being loved..and that is the music of smiths/morrissey.. not fame for themselves..