"Morrissey is the rock rebel we need right now" by Brendan O'Neill (Spiked)

An attempt at a push-back here, by Brendan O'Neill, editor of Spiked:

Morrissey is the rock rebel we need right now - spiked
You don’t have to agree with everything he says to appreciate his one-man war on conformist thought.

Extract:

There are few things sadder in the world of cultural commentary right now than Moz-bashing. You can’t flick through the pages of the music press or browse a muso website without coming across a pained op-ed by some tragic fortysomething about how The Smiths saved his life when he was a fat, friendless 13-year-old and how distraught he now is to discover that Moz is a massive racist. In their view, that is. But then, in these people’s view everyone who didn’t vote Remain in 2016 and who doesn’t check their privilege on a weekly basis is a massive racist. They despise 21st-century Morrissey because – brace yourselves – he has different opinions to theirs.


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Anonymous

Guest
He is not welcome here. That was clearly evident with the piss-poor sales for the last attempted U.K./Europe tour. He couldn’t even manage to sell seats in the front sections of an amphitheater in Sweden for god’s sake, let alone half of the tickets for his Manchester shows. He is yesterday’s news here, and the bots here can pretend that is not the case, but denial is a strong reaction.
Lets see, he's welcome from me and many others, considering the immense talent he has, and also considering he has broken no laws, his band also stick with him, why stick with yesterday's news? What gives you the right to declare he's not welcome here?
 

Stephen Hofmann

Well-Known Member
I know what you mean, but I think there's a big distinction to be made.

I find it difficult to separate the art from the artist if the artist has DONE SOMETHING TERRIBLE. If they have HURT somebody. If they have done some awful illegal thing that I find objectionable.

Morrissey, and many other criticized artists these days, merely SAID something. He said things. He said things you don't agree with. He said things that maybe you could discuss enough that one could come to some sort of an understanding, or lessen the agreement. He said things that maybe are sloppy, or best said in better ways, but the sentiment isn't as black or white as one may think (I think immigration concerns are too easily lumped in with "racism" when there's a lot of complex cultural issues happening all at once, i.e., do you really think Morrissey has issues with the state of immigration because of merely the color of the skin of the people, or because of...other more complicated ideas about religion, maybe?) Morrissey often says things to be funny or glib without really thinking of the collateral damage. Is this a crime? No. It may be reckless, but is that a crime, or unforgivable?

An artist simply saying something or god forbid, THINKING something is not at all a reason for me to have difficulty enjoying the artist. This, to me, is absurd.

Far as I know, Moz isn't Phil Spector......he hasn't killed anyone.......yet.
 

Gejo

I don't have time for stupidity
Ex-cu-se-me! He's far from being a 'rock rebel'. Not enough with being an independent artist and having a big mouth to aim that title. Give me a break!:lbf::guitar:
 

DreamingofStew

Active Member
Well, Mr O'Neill happens to be broadly right in this, I think. I find Morrissey's advocacy of For Britain at least partially puzzling. That is, I can understand why he thinks there are problems, but not why he thinks For Britain is the solution. What I find more puzzling than this, though, is the outrage with which people have reacted. I feel like I've missed a meeting or something. If anyone actually said exactly what he'd done wrong (in supporting a political party, I mean) it might be different, but there just seems to be a herd reaction of name-calling and stigmatising, almost as if there's been widespread brainwashing going on across the population. :paranoid:

I would point out one inconsistency in the article, though:

"You may not like what he says, but there’s no doubting that he is grating against the conformist outlook of the stuffy new elites, very knowingly too, in that way that rock rebels are meant to. Their job is to make music. That’s all."

If grating against the conformist outlook is what rock rebels are meant to do, then it can't be their job only to make music. More clarification needed here, I think, O'Neill.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Well, Mr O'Neill happens to be broadly right in this, I think. I find Morrissey's advocacy of For Britain at least partially puzzling. That is, I can understand why he thinks there are problems, but not why he thinks For Britain is the solution. What I find more puzzling than this, though, is the outrage with which people have reacted. I feel like I've missed a meeting or something. If anyone actually said exactly what he'd done wrong (in supporting a political party, I mean) it might be different, but there just seems to be a herd reaction of name-calling and stigmatising, almost as if there's been widespread brainwashing going on across the population. :paranoid:

I would point out one inconsistency in the article, though:

"You may not like what he says, but there’s no doubting that he is grating against the conformist outlook of the stuffy new elites, very knowingly too, in that way that rock rebels are meant to. Their job is to make music. That’s all."

If grating against the conformist outlook is what rock rebels are meant to do, then it can't be their job only to make music. More clarification needed here, I think, O'Neill.

Ever since the brexit vote didn’t go the way people thought everyone’s been sorta insecure to borderline hysterical
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Rubbish. Utter rubbish. By letting his support for a right wing organisation that harbours anti-Semites, holocaust deniers, veteran racists and associates of paedophile and murder-plotters, you are normalising this stance.

"It's just about the music" you cry, but every time you attend a concert or buy a product you are enabling his support for that horrific organisation.

Do you really want to ignore that? Perhaps you do. Perhaps you're OK with looking the other way.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Spiked! So the right wing have a new poster boy? They’re welcome to him.

How Embarrassing.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
O'Neill is a right wing culture war cretin, going into bat for anyone that seems to support his crappy right wing racist views.
 

E Scott

Well-Known Member
Yes, and isn't that awful? And if you were gay and your town became overwhelmed with fundamental Christians who preach that homosexuality is a sin, would you be concerned? Or would that make you a Christianphobe?
No, because I know it's only the most orthodox/fundamental followers of religions that would have these views.
 
No, because I know it's only the most orthodox/fundamental followers of religions that would have these views.


The statistics for the views of large sections of Muslims may surprise you then. An incredibly large percentage in England, when polled, still stood by many of the conservative and homophobic and free-speech-phobic views, among other things. Many of them don't, but many of them do. It's a religion that is not modernizing as fast as others. It is also a religion that attracts intelligent and sane people to commit acts of violence in ways no other religion in the world can do with as much frequency, if at all. There's something about the ideology that needs to be criticized, and many Muslims and ex-Muslims do that, or are they just racist too?

Perhaps the information in these articles may cause people like Morrissey to have concerns about the religion?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...se-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

I also don't see your point in general. If it's only the most orthodox, why should that be ignored too? A small amount of people can ruin many lives. A town with a small percentage of fundamental Christians can still drive a gay teenager to suicide if that is the community they are born with. You should still be allowed to voice a protest to that.
 

DreamingofStew

Active Member
It's because of the kind of thing this woman is discussing that ordinary people turn to far-right groups:


Sadly, no one else is addressing their concerns. The far right is absolutely a monster made by the contemporary left. How can it be otherwise when free speech is now considered a right-wing issue and the only discourse the left now uses is comprised of ostracism and (increasingly) violence?

Edit: notice the transition in tone between the woman in the audience and Tracy Brabin (panellist in red) - the shift from someone speaking straightforwardly to the weaselly, disingenuous tone that now characterises discourse in the media and politics in the UK.
 
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Yes, it's true, and it's a huge problem. If the only people speaking honestly about these issues is the far right, people will start to see the far right as the only honest party, which is obviously not the case. The left has to toughen up and give nuanced opinions on these things, and not demonize anybody who has them. I consider myself on the left, but at this point, barely, because they have failed in so many issues lately, especially free speech and level-headed discourse. It's all screeching and name-calling lately.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
He's a clever man when he puts his mind to something but he is also a very lazy man. I guarantee you 100% that he has not read the For Bigots manifesto. He's attracted to the leader as a gay, lesbian vegetarian feminist but a ton of their policies (environmental destruction, massive increase in military expenditure, huge tax cuts for the rich) are totally against what he has always stood for (right up to the last album). If he had any decent/honest close friends, they would be pointing this out to him.
He definitely read the animal rights bit. The talking points in the John Riggers interview were pulled straight from it.

Quote from Manifesto:
"For Britain is very concerned, for example, about the proliferation of religious un-stunned slaughter of farm animals, in contravention to all animal protection laws. Halal slaughter i.e. unstunned slaughter in accordance with Islamic ritual, is now served routinely in British schools, hospitals, government buildings, and sporting venues.[34] Kosher meat, from animals slaughtered in accordance with Jewish tradition, also involves cutting the throat of a conscious animal. British law requires animals to be stunned to unconsciousness prior to slaughter, but allows for a religious exemption. Halal certification is becoming more and more commonplace and is often applied to non meat products. Certification that a product is permissible to Muslims is obtained by major companies from various Islamic advocacy groups on payment of a fee/tax, and we have little insight in to how that money is used."

Riggers interview:
"Furthermore, halal slaughter requires certification that can only be given by supporters of ISIS, and yet in England we have halal meat served in hospitals and schools!"
(Side note: It really annoyed me how many people took that quote literally when it's obviously typical Moz hyperbole. He's saying: Anyone who's barbaric enough to certify halal slaughter must love ISIS!)
"Kosher is also very cruel."
Etcetera
 

E Scott

Well-Known Member
The statistics for the views of large sections of Muslims may surprise you then. An incredibly large percentage in England, when polled, still stood by many of the conservative and homophobic and free-speech-phobic views, among other things. Many of them don't, but many of them do. It's a religion that is not modernizing as fast as others. It is also a religion that attracts intelligent and sane people to commit acts of violence in ways no other religion in the world can do with as much frequency, if at all. There's something about the ideology that needs to be criticized, and many Muslims and ex-Muslims do that, or are they just racist too?

Perhaps the information in these articles may cause people like Morrissey to have concerns about the religion?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...se-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

I also don't see your point in general. If it's only the most orthodox, why should that be ignored too? A small amount of people can ruin many lives. A town with a small percentage of fundamental Christians can still drive a gay teenager to suicide if that is the community they are born with. You should still be allowed to voice a protest to that.
My point is this discussion is that this won't turn me into an Islamphobic or anti Christian and so forth. Yes homophobia where ever it exists is disturbing and should be challenged. One homophobe is one too many
 
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vegan cro spirit 444

Guest
Very true, Moz is the true rebel we need. not the usual suspects we see here that avoid work
and make trouble in the dole line. making demands that everyone is deserving of a weekly keg of ale.
schlomers of different varieties. the one 'pizza pop' dork here is a perfect example of such an lowdown
attitude. they are not rebels but followers of al Salaam Islam as is Skinny and his army of puppet parrots.

Moz, on the other hand, wants to tell it like it is.:thumb:
he doesnt look to that stupid Koran for guidance.:rock:
he believes in true freedom, not wearing babushkas and pup tents
while out walking in the afternoon.:rock::rock:

thats why Moz would make the perfect PM. We should demand he be drafted in,
and Skinny and his ilk be deported to Cyprus.:rock:
"Surface" can man the tugboat over there:lbf:
 

Sid Not-vicious

New Member
Not 24 hours passes without Brendan telling us what we need and promising someone will give it to us good and proper.

There isn’t a topic Brendan doesn’t have a view on.

None of you have ever heard or seen my dad’s views on Morrissey, climate change, Tommy Robinson, milkshakes, immigrants, students, abortion, tattoos, Britain’s got Talent or Gamergate and that’s because my dad works for a living.

Maybe my dad DOES NOT think that Morrissey is the rock star “we’ need right now. Whatever my dad thinks - and he thinks nothing about Morrissey ever - he hasn’t got the time to appear on Sky to tell you.

Brendan - full time employed by Brendan to let you know Brendan has had yet another thought.

Brendan: “do you want to know what I think about Incels?”
Me: “not really Brendan, no.”
Brendan: “you must be very angry Tusk said there’s a special place in Hell for us?’
Me: “give it a rest, mate. And don’t misquote Tusk”
Brendan: “can we talk about climate change hysteria?’
Me: “do you ever f***ing shut up?’
 

Sid Not-vicious

New Member
Yes, it's true, and it's a huge problem. If the only people speaking honestly about these issues is the far right, people will start to see the far right as the only honest party, which is obviously not the case. The left has to toughen up and give nuanced opinions on these things, and not demonize anybody who has them. I consider myself on the left, but at this point, barely, because they have failed in so many issues lately, especially free speech and level-headed discourse. It's all screeching and name-calling lately.
It's because of the kind of thing this woman is discussing that ordinary people turn to far-right groups:


Sadly, no one else is addressing their concerns. The far right is absolutely a monster made by the contemporary left. How can it be otherwise when free speech is now considered a right-wing issue and the only discourse the left now uses is comprised of ostracism and (increasingly) violence?

Edit: notice the transition in tone between the woman in the audience and Tracy Brabin (panellist in red) - the shift from someone speaking straightforwardly to the weaselly, disingenuous tone that now characterises discourse in the media and politics in the UK.
It's because of the kind of thing this woman is discussing that ordinary people turn to far-right groups:


Sadly, no one else is addressing their concerns. The far right is absolutely a monster made by the contemporary left. How can it be otherwise when free speech is now considered a right-wing issue and the only discourse the left now uses is comprised of ostracism and (increasingly) violence?

Edit: notice the transition in tone between the woman in the audience and Tracy Brabin (panellist in red) - the shift from someone speaking straightforwardly to the weaselly, disingenuous tone that now characterises discourse in the media and politics in the UK.

But the woman in the audience was lying.
 

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