"Morrissey is the rock rebel we need right now" by Brendan O'Neill (Spiked)

An attempt at a push-back here, by Brendan O'Neill, editor of Spiked:

Morrissey is the rock rebel we need right now - spiked
You don’t have to agree with everything he says to appreciate his one-man war on conformist thought.

Extract:

There are few things sadder in the world of cultural commentary right now than Moz-bashing. You can’t flick through the pages of the music press or browse a muso website without coming across a pained op-ed by some tragic fortysomething about how The Smiths saved his life when he was a fat, friendless 13-year-old and how distraught he now is to discover that Moz is a massive racist. In their view, that is. But then, in these people’s view everyone who didn’t vote Remain in 2016 and who doesn’t check their privilege on a weekly basis is a massive racist. They despise 21st-century Morrissey because – brace yourselves – he has different opinions to theirs.


Related item:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A

Anonymous

Guest
Good article & so true, and to add, Morrissey is a clever man, in my opinion anyway. I get the feeling he knows what he's doing. The next UK tour, if their is one, will be chaos, hopefully

He's a clever man when he puts his mind to something but he is also a very lazy man. I guarantee you 100% that he has not read the For Bigots manifesto. He's attracted to the leader as a gay, lesbian vegetarian feminist but a ton of their policies (environmental destruction, massive increase in military expenditure, huge tax cuts for the rich) are totally against what he has always stood for (right up to the last album). If he had any decent/honest close friends, they would be pointing this out to him.
 
But as a gradient, there are few absolutes. Sure, it's nice if the artist you like hasn't DONE something terrible, but that doesn't mean it's always negligible that they SAY something terrible either. I would guess there's something that even your most favorite artist could only say (not do) that would express a sentiment so heinous that you'd be forced to reevaluate them. Maybe not though?
.

Hey it's me, same person, I made an account...yay

Interesting point...yeah there may be SOMETHING, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm trying to think of artists I like who have said controversial things. Nothing has ever stopped me from not only enjoying their work, but happily declaring in public how much I love their work. Though maybe I'm not fans of many horrendous people. I mean, it takes quite a bit to offend me, I guess.

But I feel weird watching a Roman Polanski movie or talking about him. And others may say THAT is absurd...and I can accept that too. But to me it's more the actual act of hurting another person so intensely that disturbs me. Hard to put out of my mind. And I still WILL watch a Polanski movie, by the way.

In the case of Morrissey, it's touchy stuff, but in MY personal view, nothing has jumped out at me as blatantly racist and hateful. Certainly careless or iffy (like the Kevin Spacey comments, which I think was him trying to be witty or edgy or something, though even those comments have a dark element of truth, but the timing for them was pretty bad.) I can see the context for all the various things that have popped up over the years. At least enough to give some sort of benefit of the doubt, which sure, maybe it's because I'm a fan and I'm willing to, but I also just have not been totally convinced.

As for For Britain, I confess I don't know much about British politics stuff, only what I gather in a few youtube videos here and there, but I've failed to find much on my own about them that raises huge red flags. I remember checking their website, wikipedia on them, etc, and nothing felt blatantly offensive to me. A few bad people were maybe involved? Ok, bad people are involved in all political parties here in America, so that is kind of meaningless to me.

I think immigration is too complex an issue to boil down to "if you're for stricter control of it, you are racist." I think that's a dishonest meme of sorts to try to simplify something that is reasonable to debate. Unless you want totally open borders, which seems a bit risky and careless to me (as does totally closed borders), it's clearly a topic that people have different opinions on, and I've seen intelligent arguments on several sides. So that's why I don't jump to "racist" when it comes to this stuff.
 
E

Eric Hartman

Guest
70ABC724-1EAD-43A4-82CE-A64D91D51976.gif
 
Rubbish. Utter rubbish. By letting his support for a right wing organisation that harbours anti-Semites, holocaust deniers, veteran racists and associates of paedophile and murder-plotters, you are normalising this stance.

"It's just about the music" you cry, but every time you attend a concert or buy a product you are enabling his support for that horrific organisation.

Do you really want to ignore that? Perhaps you do. Perhaps you're OK with looking the other way.

Mainstream Media/BBC/Top Of The Pops; hosted, supported and covered up for a child rapist(Jimmy Savile) for 40 years. How many politicians were in support/being supported by these entities?. Another outspoken artist(Johnny Rotten) called him out and was punished for it. I think history will be kind to Morrissey's stance
 

This Charming Ben

Six-String Samurai
But I feel weird watching a Roman Polanski movie or talking about him. And others may say THAT is absurd...and I can accept that too. But to me it's more the actual act of hurting another person so intensely that disturbs me. Hard to put out of my mind. And I still WILL watch a Polanski movie, by the way.

I think this is mostly what I was getting at. Again, we all will draw our own lines as to what, if anything, is "too far."

Re: Moz specifically, For Britain, and racism in general... I don't necessarily share all of your same views there, but I am 100% in agreement that there is complexity, so I too am skeptical of any broad-stroke brushing of anything. Few things are that black and white.
 
I will say if anyone can give a level-headed case against For Britain that doesn't just boil down to "they are racists", I would like to know more. It is hard to find real thoughtful discussion of them that isn't fueled by some agenda or another. I plead ignorance on them, I really don't know the history of them or etc. All I'm saying is I couldn't find much when I tried to look. I watched one youtube video of the woman from it giving a lecture on dangerous ideas in Islam, and being that I am a fan of Sam Harris and others who discuss these things, I did not find it offensive.

Here's a strange logic hole: There are people (especially women) in Islamic areas who want to escape and live in places like England for the very reasons the For Britain people may claim...the stifling and sometimes oppressive (and sometimes dangerous, if you are a woman, gay, or thinking of leaving the faith) nature of their Islamic home. So when it's the For Britain people saying it, it's racist, but when it's the Muslim immigrant saying it and wanting sanctuary, it's something we should all listen to? It can't be either or. This is what I don't understand about those claims of Islamaphobia. You're either for helping Muslims or not, and saying it's Islamaphobic to question anything in the religion of Islam does not help these people. And I follow a lot of these Muslim reformers and ex-Muslim people on twitter, etc, and they HATE the word "Islamaphobe" and say all the time that it was entirely designed to confuse this issue.

Whew...I don't usually discuss these things. Is there more to For Britain to know about? I mean, obviously there is. Can anyone clearly spell anything out?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Every word of this opinion piece is spot f***ing on. Ditto. What he said.
Read it and weep, Skinny!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I will say if anyone can give a level-headed case against For Britain that doesn't just boil down to "they are racists", I would like to know more. It is hard to find real thoughtful discussion of them that isn't fueled by some agenda or another. I plead ignorance on them, I really don't know the history of them or etc. All I'm saying is I couldn't find much when I tried to look. I watched one youtube video of the woman from it giving a lecture on dangerous ideas in Islam, and being that I am a fan of Sam Harris and others who discuss these things, I did not find it offensive.

Here's a strange logic hole: There are people (especially women) in Islamic areas who want to escape and live in places like England for the very reasons the For Britain people may claim...the stifling and sometimes oppressive (and sometimes dangerous, if you are a woman, gay, or thinking of leaving the faith) nature of their Islamic home. So when it's the For Britain people saying it, it's racist, but when it's the Muslim immigrant saying it and wanting sanctuary, it's something we should all listen to? It can't be either or. This is what I don't understand about those claims of Islamaphobia. You're either for helping Muslims or not, and saying it's Islamaphobic to question anything in the religion of Islam does not help these people. And I follow a lot of these Muslim reformers and ex-Muslim people on twitter, etc, and they HATE the word "Islamaphobe" and say all the time that it was entirely designed to confuse this issue.

Whew...I don't usually discuss these things. Is there more to For Britain to know about? I mean, obviously there is. Can anyone clearly spell anything out?

I don’t wanna comment on what you said but would like to add that screaming racist at people is not a way to successfully change anyone’s mind and can lead to disaster. I feel this strategy failed both here in the u.s and in the brexit vote so if you do care about making change anywhere and not just venting your own anger or present your righteousness try another path. Whenever I read about a racist neo nazi who’s been reformed it almost always comes from people not giving up on them and not shouting hate at them
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Spiked. That bastion of c***ery. Get to f***. They'll defend any old racist.

And you are a homophobe and a misogynistic for supporting Muslims. Their book says to kill gays! And you expect a gay man to embrace their culture. You’re a terrible person.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
He's a clever man when he puts his mind to something but he is also a very lazy man. I guarantee you 100% that he has not read the For Bigots manifesto. He's attracted to the leader as a gay, lesbian vegetarian feminist but a ton of their policies (environmental destruction, massive increase in military expenditure, huge tax cuts for the rich) are totally against what he has always stood for (right up to the last album). If he had any decent/honest close friends, they would be pointing this out to him.
Im not suggesting he’s read any manifesto, I’m suggesting he’s clever in the sense of music/anarchy, it’s certainly causing a stir, gets his name about as an horrible person, who says what the f*** he wants, and theirs a market for that. I like it
 

E Scott

Well-Known Member
And you are a homophobe and a misogynistic for supporting Muslims. Their book says to kill gays! And you expect a gay man to embrace their culture. You’re a terrible person.
All orthodox or fundamental main world religions are sadly homophobic.
 

Ugly Devil

Well-Known Member
This....
And you are a homophobe and a misogynistic for supporting Muslims. Their book says to kill gays! And you expect a gay man to embrace their culture. You’re a terrible person.

Islam is a ghastly ideology. It's only prevailed for this long cause the majority of its supporters are of ethnic descent, and being critical of the brown man's ideology will get you labelled a racist.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The next UK tour, if their is one, will be chaos, hopefully
In the current climate, and following the Manchester cancellations last time, I genuinely can't see any prospect of a UK tour in the near future. Can you imagine? Venues would be picketed by baying mobs of Antifa, EU remoaners and other left-wing nutters. Even if shows did go ahead, chances would be high that someone would lob a plastic bottle at his head, or a kebab, knowing full-well he'd walk as soon as anything came near him.

If a UK tour is announced I will be surprised. If it actually goes ahead with tickets sold, and Morrissey turning up, I will be stunned.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
In the current climate, and following the Manchester cancellations last time, I genuinely can't see any prospect of a UK tour in the near future. Can you imagine? Venues would be picketed by baying mobs of Antifa, EU remoaners and other left-wing nutters. Even if shows did go ahead, chances would be high that someone would lob a plastic bottle at his head, or a kebab, knowing full-well he'd walk as soon as anything came near him. First gig Oldham or Burnley,

If a UK tour is announced I will be surprised. If it actually goes ahead with tickets sold, and Morrissey turning up, I will be stunned.
Dunno, no idea, but id go, but id buy a ticket on the night, lots of people probly the same, I think it will happen, demand equals supply, I think their would be demand for tickets in Manchester for sure, the possible protests make it more interesting to me,
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
In the current climate, and following the Manchester cancellations last time, I genuinely can't see any prospect of a UK tour in the near future. Can you imagine? Venues would be picketed by baying mobs of Antifa, EU remoaners and other left-wing nutters. Even if shows did go ahead, chances would be high that someone would lob a plastic bottle at his head, or a kebab, knowing full-well he'd walk as soon as anything came near him.

If a UK tour is announced I will be surprised. If it actually goes ahead with tickets sold, and Morrissey turning up, I will be stunned.

He is not welcome here. That was clearly evident with the piss-poor sales for the last attempted U.K./Europe tour. He couldn’t even manage to sell seats in the front sections of an amphitheater in Sweden for god’s sake, let alone half of the tickets for his Manchester shows. He is yesterday’s news here, and the bots here can pretend that is not the case, but denial is a strong reaction.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Every word of this opinion piece is spot f***ing on. Ditto. What he said.
Read it and weep, Skinny!
As has been made very obvious over recent years, Skinny cannot read.

And he is a colossal twat.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rubbish. Utter rubbish. By letting his support for a right wing organisation that harbours anti-Semites, holocaust deniers, veteran racists and associates of paedophile and murder-plotters, you are normalising this stance

That actually makes no sense at all.
Non language.
Want to try again?
 
All orthodox or fundamental main world religions are sadly homophobic.

Yes, and isn't that awful? And if you were gay and your town became overwhelmed with fundamental Christians who preach that homosexuality is a sin, would you be concerned? Or would that make you a Christianphobe?
 

Trending Threads

Top Bottom