"Morrissey is the rock rebel we need right now" by Brendan O'Neill (Spiked)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BookishBoy, May 23, 2019.

By BookishBoy on May 23, 2019 at 3:24 PM
  1. BookishBoy

    BookishBoy Active Member

    Feb 28, 2019
    An attempt at a push-back here, by Brendan O'Neill, editor of Spiked:

    Morrissey is the rock rebel we need right now - spiked
    You don’t have to agree with everything he says to appreciate his one-man war on conformist thought.


    There are few things sadder in the world of cultural commentary right now than Moz-bashing. You can’t flick through the pages of the music press or browse a muso website without coming across a pained op-ed by some tragic fortysomething about how The Smiths saved his life when he was a fat, friendless 13-year-old and how distraught he now is to discover that Moz is a massive racist. In their view, that is. But then, in these people’s view everyone who didn’t vote Remain in 2016 and who doesn’t check their privilege on a weekly basis is a massive racist. They despise 21st-century Morrissey because – brace yourselves – he has different opinions to theirs.

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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BookishBoy, May 23, 2019.

    1. Anonymous
      "Their job is to make music. That’s all. What they think about things is immaterial. The current contempt for Morrissey reveals a seriously intolerant streak in cultural circles, which now seem to be packed with people who want to erase – or ‘cancel’, to use PC parlance – anyone whose politics differs to their own. However much they try to dress up their Moz boycott in the finery of anti-racism or whatever, in truth those Spillers guys are no different to the people who boycotted Lennon because he dissed Christ and the bores who boycotted Johnny Rotten because he insulted Her Maj. In all these cases, artists were punished because of what they thought and said."


      Fuck Spillers!
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    2. Anonymous
      Lol the Koch funded magazine Spiked is a real expert on sticking it to the man.
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    3. countthree
      I can't agree more, but Morrissey isn't mental. He is just... himself. Which is wonderful.
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    4. Anonymous
      Good article & so true, and to add, Morrissey is a clever man, in my opinion anyway. I get the feeling he knows what he's doing. The next UK tour, if their is one, will be chaos, hopefully
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    5. This Charming Ben
      This Charming Ben
      Not specific to Morrissey or any current controversies, but on the broader point the author is making... I don't think it's that simple.

      Obviously, it's unreasonable to expect to fully know the political opinions of everyone whose products and services you consume. And it's impractical for that knowledge, if you hypothetically had it, to dictate all of your choices. In other words, I don't know what horrible opinions may be lurking in the mind of the guy who's servicing my car or the guy making my sandwich. And even if I did, it seems impractical to always be searching for and patronizing exclusively businesses that share all of my own ideologies.

      That being said, a song isn't a sandwich, is it? There's no emotional content/investment there. You don't need to feel any sort of spiritual connection with the sandwich maker to enjoy the sandwich. I think it's different when it comes to art. If my car mechanic is "just another fool with radical views," I may not love it, but I can shrug it off. I don't have to be vulnerable to get what I need from the exchange. Take my money, fix my car, move on with our respective lives. But if an artist is known to have some objectionable political/ethical/moral stance, I personally find it pretty hard to let my guard down enough to connect with whatever vision they're trying to create with their art. Knowledge about the artist absolutely changes the experience of the art, I find. I don't think you can separate the art from the artist. But if you can, carry on I guess.

      Same as when you hear comments like "shut up and sing" or "shut up and act" when people learn their favorite celebrities disagree with them politically. Who wants to learn their hero is a lunatic? It taints their experience. But everything about who that artist is went into the art they made. They're indivisible.
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    6. Anonymous
      Finally an article about Morrissey that I agree with!
    7. Anonymous
      Is anyone able to contact UncleSkinny's nearest hospital? He's going to be admitted with a simultaneous heart attack, aneurysm, stomach ulcer and nervous breakdown when he reads this!
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    8. Anonymous

      I know what you mean, but I think there's a big distinction to be made.

      I find it difficult to separate the art from the artist if the artist has DONE SOMETHING TERRIBLE. If they have HURT somebody. If they have done some awful illegal thing that I find objectionable.

      Morrissey, and many other criticized artists these days, merely SAID something. He said things. He said things you don't agree with. He said things that maybe you could discuss enough that one could come to some sort of an understanding, or lessen the agreement. He said things that maybe are sloppy, or best said in better ways, but the sentiment isn't as black or white as one may think (I think immigration concerns are too easily lumped in with "racism" when there's a lot of complex cultural issues happening all at once, i.e., do you really think Morrissey has issues with the state of immigration because of merely the color of the skin of the people, or because of...other more complicated ideas about religion, maybe?) Morrissey often says things to be funny or glib without really thinking of the collateral damage. Is this a crime? No. It may be reckless, but is that a crime, or unforgivable?

      An artist simply saying something or god forbid, THINKING something is not at all a reason for me to have difficulty enjoying the artist. This, to me, is absurd.
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    9. lazy_sunbather
      This is exactly how I feel. Thank you for articulating it perfectly.
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    10. Uncleskinny
      Spiked. That bastion of cuntery. Get to fuck. They'll defend any old racist.
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    11. This Charming Ben
      This Charming Ben
      Certainly it can be a gradient, right? Doing something awful is worse than thinking/saying something awful. And even in the realm of things said, some sentiments are worse than others. It's not all or nothing, and I wouldn't dispute that.

      But as a gradient, there are few absolutes. Sure, it's nice if the artist you like hasn't DONE something terrible, but that doesn't mean it's always negligible that they SAY something terrible either. I would guess there's something that even your most favorite artist could only say (not do) that would express a sentiment so heinous that you'd be forced to reevaluate them. Maybe not though?

      When it comes to 1) how bad was the sentiment (which itself is subjective in terms of how clearly it was stated by the artist and how you personally understood it) and 2) if that sentiment warrants turning your back on the artist... I'd say where you or I each personally draw the line in this or that circumstance is irrelevant. My original point was that there's a relationship there. It sounds like we probably agree on that much.
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    12. Uncleskinny
      Rubbish. Utter rubbish. By letting his support for a right wing organisation that harbours anti-Semites, holocaust deniers, veteran racists and associates of paedophile and murder-plotters, you are normalising this stance.

      "It's just about the music" you cry, but every time you attend a concert or buy a product you are enabling his support for that horrific organisation.

      Do you really want to ignore that? Perhaps you do. Perhaps you're OK with looking the other way.
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    13. E Scott
      E Scott
      Moz will likely be giving financial backing to this AMW movement. It's subjective and an individual decision if one can separate his art from politics. If he took an individual point says the Halal/Kosher slaughter debate or FGM he'd carry a lot more support but aligning to For Britain is just plain Islamaphobic and toxic.
      Last edited: May 23, 2019
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    14. Uncleskinny
      Good point. He could align with the Greens or the Lib Dems for exactly the same reasons, and he doesn't.
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    15. Ketamine Sun
      Ketamine Sun
      But everything about who that artist is went into the art they made. They're indivisible.’

      That’s a nice idea, and the listener if passionate about that artist would like to believe that’s true, but I don’t feel it is. And I’m sure most artists (if forced) would themselves say that how much of ‘themselves’ they put into their songs varies from song to song.

      I still love Phil Spector’s work, and can enjoy a Gary Glitter song simply because it’s fun or (In the case of Spectors work) moves me, so I guess I do separate the artist from their art. But it’s not something I wrestle with or even think about.

      Life would be unbearable if one had to make high moral judgments every second of their life, actually it would be close to impossible to live in this world if one were to attempt to do so.

      Last edited: May 23, 2019
    16. Anonymous
      Morrissey isn't racist. So, again, please stop saying he is.
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    17. This Charming Ben
      This Charming Ben
      Fair point, not every song is high art. And if you can get by with keeping thoughts about the artist out of your head, then sure, but even that's slightly different than what I was asserting. In a way, that seems like disengaging with the information you know about the artist rather than embracing it. I enjoy Gary Glitter as well but only when I'm not thinking about him too much. The cognitive dissonance "cool song" and "pedophile" is too much for me to hold in my head simultaneously. Only on my best days, when I can see the tragedy in seriously flawed people rather than judge them harshly, could I see maybe holding the two ideas together and finding a way to embrace them both. Something to strive for, I guess.
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    18. TonyMaroneythePony
    19. Ketamine Sun
      Ketamine Sun
      Most of my record collection is made up
      of damaged ‘evil’ rock n roller poets, how else is real lasting art made if not by these broken yet beautiful souls?

      I pity the present and future generations, though I guess if they’re really interested they could always look backwards to taste what a real artist can offer and deliver to them.
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