Morrissey fans in relationships and/or with children.

Hi,

I have wondered for quite some time how Morrissey fans who are in relationships or married or have children feel about songs such as im ok by myself, will never marry, im the end of the family line and ambitious outsiders etc. Do you find these songs difficult to relate to? Or do you still really love them? Maybe you dont even listen to them or think they are just crap songs regardless of subject matter? Just curious. Look forward to hearing some answers. :)
 

Brel

Guttersnipe
"The only one around here who is me, is me"
 

CrookedLittleVein

Duck. Duck. Duck. Goose.
Hi,

I have wondered for quite some time how Morrissey fans who are in relationships or married or have children feel about songs such as im ok by myself, will never marry, im the end of the family line and ambitious outsiders etc. Do you find these songs difficult to relate to? Or do you still really love them? Maybe you dont even listen to them or think they are just crap songs regardless of subject matter? Just curious. Look forward to hearing some answers. :)
I think much of Morrissey's appeal as a lyricist, for me at least, comes from his ability to communicate ideas and feelings that I don't necessarily agree with in such a way that I can fully empathise, regardless of my opinion one way or the other.

His views on immigration and the erosion of British culture, for example. I actually find the sudden explosion of black leather jacketed, unshaven and vaguely threatening Polish blokes in Liverpool kind of refreshing and intriguing. I mean, they just weren't there three or four years ago. And now you can pop into your local Polish shop and buy galaretka and makowiec (apologies for the possibly inaccurate spelling). How cool is that?

And yet, at the same time, I completely empathise with Morrissey's sadness and frustration at the passing of those facets of British culture that are dear to his heart.

I have two wonderful and infuriating children of my own but I can fully appreciate the preference for (and even the celebration of) the childless life.
 

Jukebox Jury

Retired
Hi,

I have wondered for quite some time how Morrissey fans who are in relationships or married or have children feel about songs such as im ok by myself, will never marry, im the end of the family line and ambitious outsiders etc. Do you find these songs difficult to relate to? Or do you still really love them? Maybe you dont even listen to them or think they are just crap songs regardless of subject matter? Just curious. Look forward to hearing some answers. :)
I'd say absolutely they can be related to. I suspect most people listening to the songs for the first time didnt have kids / partner etc at that time and I also suspect a good deal of those married wish they hadn't done so!:eek:

Jukebox Jury
 

dicartwright

Active Member
I can relate to all of that more than Moz himself. I don't want to have children ever. About marriage, I think we're both in the same line of thinking.
 

Scarlet Ibis

The Chicken of D.C.
Hi,

I have wondered for quite some time how Morrissey fans who are in relationships or married or have children feel about songs such as im ok by myself, will never marry, im the end of the family line and ambitious outsiders etc. Do you find these songs difficult to relate to? Or do you still really love them? Maybe you dont even listen to them or think they are just crap songs regardless of subject matter? Just curious. Look forward to hearing some answers. :)
Permit me to ramble?

I think he wouldn't be writing those songs if they were 100% true for him. There's no need to tell the world that you're OK by yourself if you're actually OK by yourself. I mean, the man's entire career is based on wanting love and not being able to find it... And he's recently compared never being someone's sweetie to crashing and breaking one's spine, which is about as bad as it gets. So, it's not like he's saying we're wrong for having looked for (and found) love; he just hasn't done the same thing. Yet.

And, really, before we had someone we were all in the same boat. I never in a million years expected to be lucky in love. I was the loneliest person in the universe before I met my husband, so I still relate to those days very easily. (Without Morrissey I don't know that I'd have my husband. We bonded over The Smiths early on.)

Remember also that most people are at least somewhat unhappy in their love relationship. I'm lucky enough to be 99.9% happy in that way, but many (if not most) of my friends who are in relationships are still trying to iron out the kinks. We're all basically alone, you know.

What does bother me is when Morrissey starts generalizing about marriage and parenthood in interviews. It's insulting to me at the same time that I agree with him. I want to shake him and say, "But I didn't have a child because society expected me to! I thought really hard about it!" The thing is, sadly, he's right for the most part. MOST people do end up with some doofus they met in a bar and then they have kids because the timing is right. (Or their birth control failed.) Life by default. He's also right that that's no way to live and I'm glad he's held out and not settled. Some of us actually do find True Love though, and I think he'd like to get in on that.

"Ambitious Outsiders" could be interpreted in a really offensive way if I was feeling uncharitiable, but I try to remember that Morrissey doesn't always write lyrics from his own perspective. Whenever he writes as if life and love (even for one's child) aren't important I know he's either writing from someone else's perspective or just experiementing with ideas. Life ("is a very serious business") and love are EVERYTHING to him. Well, and art. :)

... Sometimes I don't think he realizes that art can exist alongside love and family, though, simply because he has never found that balance.
 
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Thats a quality ramble Ibis! :thumb:

I agree entirely. I'm at a very good place in my life, but I can empathise with most songs as I've also been in that low place, where you wonder if it'll ever happen (How Soon Is Now used to be my song! :) )

Morrissey, no matter how dour he paints his life (especially through interviews) has also had periods of happiness and has the debris of past relationships dotted around him, and as he has clearly stated quite recently. Many if not all of his songs are written about specific moments, not general feelings that have betrayed him, constantly for 40 years (Possibly except Still Ill :) )
 

dicartwright

Active Member
And, really, before we had someone we were all in the same boat. I never in a million years expected to be lucky in love. I was the loneliest person in the universe before I met my husband, so I still relate to those days very easily.
You put it very clearly, I'd vote for you :)

What does bother me is when Morrissey starts generalizing about marriage and parenthood in interviews. It's insulting to me at the same time that I agree with him. I want to shake him and say, "But I didn't have a child because society expected me to! I thought really hard about it!" The thing is, sadly, he's right for the most part. MOST people do end up with some doofus they met in a bar and then they have kids because the timing is right. (Or their birth control failed.) Life by default. He's also right that that's no way to live and I'm glad he's held out and not settled. Some of us actually do find True Love though, and I think he'd like to get in on that.

... Sometimes I don't think he realizes that art can exist alongside love and family, though, simply because he has never found that balance.
Probably. Like saying "All politics are the same, basically evil", because he comes form a place where there's nobody to vote for (because they probably are all the same)
But does he really say that in interviews? I mean, now that's he's all grown up? I've heard him say a good number of silly things :lbf:
 

PregnantForTheLastTime

Hideous trait.
... Sometimes I don't think he realizes that art can exist alongside love and family, though, simply because he has never found that balance.
Brilliant post, Scarlet.

Of course these songs don't bother me. There's always a delicate balance between individuality and one's identity as a member of a family. And no matter what life choices we make, or which opportunities are presented to us, we will always wonder if we might have been happier had we done something differently. I really wonder if Morrissey ever churlishly wishes he'd just buckled down in that tax office and married some very nice girl from his mom's neighborhood and spawned a houseful of kids - just as I wonder if I'd not have been better off getting my degree and doing whatever I wanted instead of partnering up and making choices to benefit that partnership.

Even "Ordinary Boys" is tinged with envy. :o

I read Morrissey as a novelist-in-miniature, so "Ambitious Outsiders" doesn't bother me any more than Lolita does. Every writer writes from truth, even when they are telling someone else's story. I'm just happy to have Morrissey's work out there. I'm really glad he didn't choose an ordinary life.
 

EPbabe

Active Member
I'm happily married, I want to have children, and I love Morrissey. These things go really well together.
 

jackson

Member
Hi,

I have wondered for quite some time how Morrissey fans who are in relationships or married or have children feel about songs such as im ok by myself, will never marry, im the end of the family line and ambitious outsiders etc. Do you find these songs difficult to relate to? Or do you still really love them? Maybe you dont even listen to them or think they are just crap songs regardless of subject matter? Just curious. Look forward to hearing some answers. :)
I still love them all. Infact i feel as times, yea that would all be a great fun to
a. The End of..
b. I'm OK
etc... they are just fun songs that remind me of the times when I was free! :D
 

Scarlet Ibis

The Chicken of D.C.
I still love them all. Infact i feel as times, yea that would all be a great fun to
a. The End of..
b. I'm OK
etc... they are just fun songs that remind me of the times when I was free! :D
A good relationship should set you free.
 

jackson

Member
yes, but its a different type of freedom. Just pure bliss.
 

Raphael Lambach

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I have wondered for quite some time how Morrissey fans who are in relationships or married or have children feel about songs such as im ok by myself, will never marry, im the end of the family line and ambitious outsiders etc. Do you find these songs difficult to relate to? Or do you still really love them? Maybe you dont even listen to them or think they are just crap songs regardless of subject matter? Just curious. Look forward to hearing some answers. :)

Celibacy is just a Morrissey's idea. It's not a thing that we must follow. I don't have children, but If I had I'd love them with or without Morrissey.

Is Kewpie a mother?? :eek: :blushing:
I cannot imagine it.
 
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