Morrissey fans are about to give up on him – Johnny Marr, please stage an intervention

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Fine. So who are "they" in this scenario? And have you spoken them to find out what their attitude to you burning is?
You raise a great point here. I have a real problem with violent mob mentality. I recently lost a very close friend of 26 years because of a political argument on the topic. I said "Yes, I believe that Nazis deserve a punch in the face, or worse. The second you walk out of the door wearing an armband, or sieg-heiling, you open yourself up for any number of bad reactions. Freedom of speech is a government right and it doesn't mean someone won't kick your ass for what you say." So evidently I'm a left wing nutter aligned with antifa, who advocates for group violence and chaos, when my point was that personal accountability has to factor in, and sometimes bad things happen to assholes. When you have large groups of people smashing things up and getting the follow the leader syndrome you talk about, it gets ugly quickly.
Cult of personality happens in great and small ways in the world.

That is exactly why I have my doubts and trying to search for other options, even if I don't see them at the moment. The thought of any other atrocities that will occur again and again and again and the same obligatory responses and discussions leading to nowhere is making me sad and angry.
Well, I guess I am not the only one and it is just me, a nobody like so many other nobodies.

I am convinced the murders and insane things happening in the States have a big relation to the legal possibilities of buying guns and all kinds of other weapons but in Europe, or at least in my country it was illegal.
But it didn't result in less victims and the "innovative" use of other methods to murder has been going on and evolving.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Fine. So who are "they" in this scenario? And have you spoken them to find out what their attitude to you burning is?

" If people already know that their own citizens won't ever care about them, or their issues then those people become justified in aggressively obtaining, and wielding power for their own protection."

I haven't identified them yet, as it is hard to do so.
They hide, you know.
So how can I ask them anyway?
It is a small but radical extremist group hiding amongst the good people.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
You paint a whole with one brush. Don't you believe that at the root of it, most Muslims want the same things the rest of the world do? Basic freedom, safety, opportunity for themselves and their children, a roof over their heads, food in their stomachs, and maybe a few nice things at home? But for a random squirt of sperm meeting the random egg, you could be them, and vise versa. When I see a family destroyed for any reason, children dead, weeping mothers- I am very quick to realize that could be my child, or my family if not for geography and circumstance.

Of course I do.
People are the same everywhere.
No they are not.
Yes they are.
No they are not. Ad infinitum.
Again, I realize it is only a small group of extremists hijacking a religion and hiding their existence.
I feel sorry for the good willing people, which are victims too.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
I've only given up on myself.

Why?
If you have given up on yourself you are not able to care about your loved ones.
Or any other issue that you think is important.
If you give up you surrender.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
*Waving a white flag of surrender*

Come on now Urbanus, grab yourself together, you are the perfect one to hate, if you're no longer here what are the oh so morally good going to do? They will have to find another troll but nobody can take your place!
They'll lose all inspiration, oh wait a minute, you smartass psycho billy, by waving the white flag you want to defeat them!
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
Come on now Urbanus, grab yourself together, you are the perfect one to hate, if you're no longer here what are the oh so morally good going to do? They will have to find another troll but nobody can take your place!
They'll lose all inspiration, oh wait a minute, you smartass psycho billy, by waving the white flag you want to defeat them!

Hahaha as always you come with your very own analyse on the situation. It seems I drew a big nazi crowd onto this forum cause those people never realised I never was one and was just taking the piss.

I created not only a monster but a whole bunch of them.

Gerrit, when I have periods in my life when I give up I feel so much better so you should try it sometime.
 

bun bun

team baklava
^This forum doesn't revolve around you. Also, it's an analysis, not an "analyse", asshole.
 
N

Nathalie

Guest
" I would say that atheism is the only perception of the origin of the man who has never been radical in his actions, contrary to any religion at a given moment of the history of humanity. If I am mistaken on that, somebody can give me an example, I will accept it "

From the Russian revolution and during Lenin and Stalin years and even long after that, religion of any kind was brutally and merciless persecuted. Many hundreds of thousands of people were killed. Now it might be they weren't only for their religion but the political system was such as built on the adagium of Marx, that religion was and is the opium for (or of) the people and it was seen as a thread to the road to the communist paradise.
That ideological system itself became more and more the same as a believe-system, and because the secular and atheist propaganda was forced on so many people, with so many deaths and torture the results are the same.

Let me quote a now not popular anymore psychiatrist, philosopher and scientifically considered doubtful man.
Sigmund Freud said the only reason that could be a possible explanation for the existence of religion is a collective psychosis. As he understood people are not only rational but irrational too.
His ideas came more from a literary and imaginational world than from a real scientific view.


Thanks Quando to remember me that. I’m sorry not to be able to converse in English but I try a little.

Marx has initiated a subversive thought => alienation of work => social alienation => Russian revolution 1917, drifts (derives) under Lénine, drifts Stalinist = politics anti-religious, workers’State = communism

Freud was prohibited to put the feet into USSR under the Stalin’s regime because the practice of the psychoanalysis was prohibited, incompatible with the Marxism.

One of my sister has lived during 3 years in Moscow and she was really interested in the history of USSR during these years. We had many times conversations together. (She changes country every 3 ou 4 years ; she has leaved France 20 years ago now et she can tell me about her experiences.).
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
Again, I realize it is only a small group of extremists hijacking a religion and hiding their existence.
I feel sorry for the good willing people, which are victims too.

And this is exactly why I can't hate Muslims or adopt a fearful stance. When fear takes over, reason takes flight.
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
That is exactly why I have my doubts and trying to search for other options, even if I don't see them at the moment. The thought of any other atrocities that will occur again and again and again and the same obligatory responses and discussions leading to nowhere is making me sad and angry.
Well, I guess I am not the only one and it is just me, a nobody like so many other nobodies.

I am convinced the murders and insane things happening in the States have a big relation to the legal possibilities of buying guns and all kinds of other weapons but in Europe, or at least in my country it was illegal.
But it didn't result in less victims and the "innovative" use of other methods to murder has been going on and evolving.
I'm sure there was an unpopular caveman who got cast out for saying "Groog no like rocks!" There will always be a means of murder, but I have to, absolutely 100%, advocate for harm reduction.
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
^This forum doesn't revolve around you. Also, it's an analysis, not an "analyse", asshole.

Analysis is plural and analyse singular. My reply was about one man, Gerrit, and his way of analysing something. I heard he doesn't have lice or else I would have followed your advice.

Did not know the grammar police are still recruiting. Funny how the people from the love movement only carry hate with them these days.

I can see the funny side unlike you so lighten up baby.
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
OK but precision : “views and actions

These are not only the “views” which are radical, these are the actions which are radical too. This is precisely the reason for which people confuse the muslims and the extremists muslims.

We can say that an atheist has a radical point of view on God and any religion. As long as he does not have the idea to impose atheism on the others by exterminating the others, the radical atheism doesn’t exist. I would say that atheism is the only perception of the origin of the man who has never been radical in his actions, contrary to any religion at a given moment of the history of humanity. If I am mistaken on that, somebody can give me an example, I will accept it. The atheist makes use of other tools to demonstrate his point of views (and to demonstrate is not to impose by actions). In the worst case, an atheist will be virulent in his words.

Racism and xenophobia are concepts invented by the human being for better hating themselves in the name of the religions and of the political programs. I could develop more on that. In this point of view, I’m agreed too with the person called “Sister I’m a poet”.

PS : I’m not atheist. Agnostic.

Sorry to say that you are wrong. Comunism is the best example of radical atheism imposing its point of view and exterminating others, as well in theory as in actions. Ask Cuban people, for example. Lenin and Stalin were not very friendly with religion either. Just two examples.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Stuart Heritage is a twit. I wouldn't trust any rubbish that this idiot could drum up - ah, he can't drum. Says it all. He's a man on a mission to obscurity - always has been.

Don't believe his tripe,

Best
Hazard
x
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Morrissey is someone who whines self righteously about the British occupation of Ireland and then plays in Israel.

If he supports someone happy to group all Muslims then perhaps he won't mind if I assume that every Briton of Irish descent like himself is an IRA apologist who supported their deeds against British soldiers and civilians.

Dear WhalleyRange, Ref Para1: Don't you think though that it's funny ? That "the English" are now being held to ransom (for £76bn's by the EU) because "the English" invaded Ireland......

Titter not,
Hazard
x
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
Come on now Urbanus, grab yourself together, you are the perfect one to hate, if you're no longer here what are the oh so morally good going to do? They will have to find another troll but nobody can take your place!
They'll lose all inspiration, oh wait a minute, you smartass psycho billy, by waving the white flag you want to defeat them!

See what you did Gerrit by talking to me again (look above).

Leave me out the gang of 3, please

Cheers!
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
This forum does not revolve around me!

Took me a while for the sheer shock to sink in. I just had my first drink since 2011, a cocktail of the detergents in my bathroom.

*Burp*
 
U

URBANUS

Guest
See what you did Gerrit by talking to me again (look above).

Leave me out the gang of 3, please

Cheers!

I forget to add the word "of" after "leave me out" and now he will appear again and correct me. I will have a sleepless night now and cancel the trip to the giant shopping area tomorrow.

Pillas day out ruined cause of me forgetting a word. What's the worlds problems compared to that, nuffink!
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Hahaha as always you come with your very own analyse on the situation. It seems I drew a big nazi crowd onto this forum cause those people never realised I never was one and was just taking the piss.

I created not only a monster but a whole bunch of them.

Gerrit, when I have periods in my life when I give up I feel so much better so you should try it sometime.

The real nazi's would consider those who call themselves nazi's now a bunch of snowflakes.
And they are of course but snowflakes can freeze and get in your eye. :rolleyes:

There is a danger of course when people start spreading the nazi-propaganda and ideas cause it is frightening and many people not able to understand, not know how to learn, not really interested in history are uncertain, afraid and tend to give the guys with the promise of "the" solution to all "their" problems the benefit of the doubt.

After ww1 Germany was a giant mess and as the losing party was completely destroyed and in shambles.
The period of the so-called Weimar republic with inflation percengages that destroyed whatever was left of the economy. The moment a bread costs 1.3 million Reichsmark and just 2 hrs later almost 2 million Reichsmark.
Hitler and the whole Nazi clique around him promised a solution.
One aspect was to scapegoat the Jews and claiming they and only they were responsible.

It is true a number of big banks and companies were owned by Jewish people and they were rich.
But the percentage of the people who could be considered to be Jewish was very small even considered by the racial and biological nonsense they designed.
Millions of people in Germany' lived in hell, starving to death of hunger, and anybody promising anything at all, would get a positive reaction cause those people had nothing to lose anymore. They were losing their lives already. The desperation was that big.

Still in hindsight it is unbelievable someone promising to solve ALL the problems and thinking by exterminating 6 million people would bring eternal welfare and paradise and the 1000 years Nazi empire is completely insane and irrational. And bound to fail.
And though they succeeded to kill many of the in their eyes inferior races they lost their war.

The allied forces did not make the same mistake as after ww1.
Billions of dollars were invested, the Marshall helpplan. Of course you could say that was in the interest of the capitalist system.
It was. But what was the alternative? Although Europe has to realize The Russians offered so many lives and fought against the nazis, the communist system was a thread too.

I finished reading some books about what happened in Germany after ww1. Eyewitnesses, stories from people living in that time and in Germany. Just common people, no historians.
I couldn't resist feeling empathy with those people who were mislead, promised a better life and lived in hell.
I read a story about a small, very poor city and someone described when the German army, the police and the SS arrived there.

The people standing at the streets, the ones that were able, in their rags, a lot of them no shoes and they looked at the German soldiers. They could not believe what they saw.
They saw very well fed and dressed in impressive uniforms soldiers, the officers of the SS in those black uniforms, the material of the armed troops was impressive too.
They'd never ever seen before something like it.
All because of the discipline which was of the highest order.
In no time the whole village or city was transformed, people had jobs, income, food and everything they needed.
And that's one of the reasons too so many common Germans supported Hitler and the Nazi regime.
Not saying it was the only reason.
 
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