Morrissey: "Current feminism does not help our societies and makes masculinism retaliate" - Culto

I will preface this article with a couple of caveats: firstly, it has gone through translate and secondly, context and details are lacking. It should be noted that the title is part of one question asked and not the main topic - it is a bit misleading. Only a few questions with lots of commentary/background.

In Culto (part of La Tercera), by Andrés del Real (29th July, 2018):

Morrissey: "Current feminism does not help our societies and makes masculinism retaliate"

Click the spoiler to see the full article in Google translated English:
Morrissey: "Current feminism does not help our societies and makes masculinism retaliate"

How does a celebrity adapt to the times? Probably not being Morrissey, who, true to his style and before his return to Chile, shoots against modern feminism, the English press and "the culture of the negation of the left".
Last month, an indeterminate number of English self-styled "former admirers of Morrissey" announced on social networks a party against racism in Manchester, set for the same night that the British artist, his exidolo, would come to the city with the tour promotional of his most recent album, Low in high school. The reason? The statements that the former Smith of The Smiths had made days before, taking pity on the situation of the founder of the movement of extreme right English Defense League, Tommy Robinson, sentenced to 13 months in prison for contempt of court. Coincidence or not, days before the shows, the singer announced the cancellation of his dates in Manchester and all the rest of his European tour, due to "logistical problems".

The episode is added to the increasingly extensive list of polemics starring the soloist, who with the same voice with which for decades has captivated different generations of followers in search of an answer to their torments and depressions, has also got into a series of problems and controversies, for statements against the British monarchy -one of its favorite targets-, multicultural Europe and immigration, and even the #metoo feminist movement, relativizing the denunciations against Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey, among others. His verbal incontinence seems to go against the current tendency of his colleagues, quick to bend to all the causes that drive certain opinion leaders and many of their own followers.

But even the sharpest language at some point knows when to stop, and Steven Patrick Morrissey is no exception: consulted by Worship about what happened in Manchester, the musician opts for silence. It is the only answer that he decides to omit from a questionnaire sent via mail at his request, in which, before launching a series of darts against various causes and modern institutions, he gives praise to the Chilean public.

"It's always great for me to go to Chile. I feel that I am valued there as a serious artist, rather than as mere entertainment for the media,"

says the 59-year-old soloist, once dubbed by the press of his country as "The Pope of Depression", from of the semi-divine cult that generates its sensitive and enlightened voice, which unleashes extreme and conflicting passions. A church that in Chile, despite its history of controversy, the canceled tours and the headaches that suppose for the producers their vegan demands and their particular character -recognized by the former director of the Viña Festival, Álex Hernández, who asked that the Briton "I hope he does not come back" - he still has a respectable legion of faithful, as the six presentations that the artist accumulates in the country prove,

- In recent years, many of his statements to the press have generated controversy, including rejection and even campaigns against him. Do you feel that in these times it is difficult to express a different opinion to the predominant or politically incorrect current? Is it difficult today to be critical of modern life?

- It is difficult in England, where all the written press is controlled by the left, which does not want an open debate or a different opinion. The left is closed minded and works very hard to maintain a culture of denial. If you do not agree with the left, you are massacred in the press for being a racist fanatic, your public is ridiculed and every effort is made to silence you. If you question Islam or multiculturalism, the BBC radio will not reproduce your music because Islam is now a dominant ideology in the United Kingdom. I oppose halal killing [a type of preparation of animal flesh according to Islamic law] as well as I oppose any killing of animals, and that is the reason why the "Loony Left" [term with which the European extreme left is pejoratively called in certain sectors of the United Kingdom] has tried to destroy me. My views are not controversial, but if you question Islam you can be sent to jail without a trial. This is Soviet Britain, it's very real, and it's too big a problem to take over.

- Is feminism a topic that worries or generates a particular opinion? Do you think that musicians and artists in general have the responsibility to express a position on this topic today?

-I discovered feminism when I was 14 years old. By then, it was the answer to everything, because it freed all people, not just women. I read And Jill Came Tumbling After (Judith Stacey), The Female Eunuch (Germaine Greer), Women and Madness(Phyllis Chesler) and they changed my point of view. Modern feminism is not the same because it seems to aspire to "whatever men do," and that seems to be enough. Therefore, it becomes a great success, for example, to have a female football team or a group of girls in a boy scout club. The original goal of feminism was to move towards a higher intellectual plane, but now it only seems to want to occupy masculine positions and receive male aggression. It does not help our societies and, on the contrary, it causes masculinism to retaliate. Female leaders in Germany and the United Kingdom have made a mess of those countries, and this does not help modern feminism either. In all matters what I ask of the people is that they think for themselves. Collect your own material and you will reach your own conclusions. It is easy. Just stop watching the news!

Music does not change the world
The criticisms of the voice of "How soon is now?" To the media are not new and have increased in the last time. Answering through his email seems to be the way he chose to communicate publicly, after he himself announced, last December during a concert in Germany, his decision to stop giving interviews to the written press, after accusing the newspaper Der Spiegel twisted his words in an interview in which, among other things, he would have indicated that the actor Kevin Spacey has been "unnecessarily attacked" after accusations of sexual abuse against him, and even that he would kill the president of the United States, Donald Trump, if the opportunity were given.

But it has been the media in his country that have responded the hardest to the soloist. His eleventh solo album, Low in high school(2017), perhaps the most overtly political work of his discography, was warmly received by the specialized critics. And while an opinion column in The Guardian newspaper a few weeks ago called simply to "stop listening" to Morrissey's music, NME magazine this month published the story of Johnny Turner, a guy who imitates the singer in a tribute band to The Smiths, who confessed that these days people stop him in the street and contact him on social networks to insult him and threaten him if he supports the controversial sayings of his idol. If before being a fan of "Moz" was tantamount to declaring a misfit, today, in a time of greater sensitivity to certain causes postponed and in which many young people have chosen to "veto" their social networks to celebrities who do not share their opinions ,

- In this era of musical consumption via streaming, social networks and post-truth, do you think that music, the lyrics of a song, can change the world? Or at least make it a little better?

-We are very closed and I think we resort to music to discover who or what we are. Music tells us how to escape from certain things. It does not change the world, because songs are like art arrows and can not really compete with the silly spectacle of war, money and political violence ... which is what makes the world go round. The songs mitigate the trauma of ... just being alive.

- In 2019 it will turn 60 years old. Is it something that bothers you or that you receive with peace of mind? Do you see yourself singing on stage and publishing albums for many more years?

-I feel somewhat insensitive with respect to age. Everything happens so fast that it is difficult to even know what is really happening. As long as I have a good pulse, I know that I will have the initiative to sing. I am not a chosen one, I have never been promoted to be fashionable or I am where I am because of my appearance, therefore, I have not moved away from the original need to sing. You must continue as if everyone is listening to you ... Even if they are not!

Article link:
http://culto.latercera.com/2018/07/...sociedades-al-masculinismo-tomar-represalias/

Article source:


Anyone from Chile in the know?
Regards,
FWD.

43723_culto.jpg
 
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I think women both confuse and repel him. My theory is that the women in his family held all the power and he hated them for it - all those strong Irish aunties, and then Betty as well. Poor bloke stood no chance.

Having said that, as a woman I share his view that there is something not quite right about modern feminism. All that whining and flag-waving and man-hating seems to miss the target somehow. I don't think I've ever let my sex get in the way of what I wanted to do in life and I wouldn't take shit from anybody, but I would never call myself a 'feminist' - I find it embarassing and meaningless.
He is very close to his mother though isn't he
 
Honestly, I rarely watch men’s tennis :brows:

Dominika Cibulkova is a fine tennis player.

I think the thing about this current strange Handmaid’s Tale version of feminism is just how oddly Puritan it is. It seems to consist largely of rather posh, wealthy media women telling poorer, less educated women how to behave. F1 grid girls? NFL cheerleaders? “Get thee behind me Satan!” Rotherham child sex abuse? Ummm... Well that’s different...

It reminds me of the way Lady Marjorie would summon the Head House Parlour Maid for a telling off in Upstairs Downstairs. It’s all terribly prim and proper.

You can easily imagine Maddow or Maitlis covering up the table legs before their feminist group turns up to finish the eight foot high anatomically correct woollen vagina for Saturday’s march.
 
At least you didn't vote for the Wicked Witch of the West.

The whole "vote for us because you're black" thing isn't working too well these days either.

I really do hate identity politics of all kinds. I don't think modern feminism will have much mainstream support for much longer. Most women simply are too smart for it.
All politics is identity politics, and there isn't a more ideological, and strict version of that than conservatism. The fact that you're doing the very thing you claim to hate seems to be lost on you. No self-awareness.

Raving about nationalism, and immigrants, and your white identity is identity politics on steroids.

Also, you don't seem to grasp the difference between gender and sex. You think they're the same. Their difference is a scientific fact, and this is only controversial to small minds.

Why any of this threatens you is a mystery, but I suspect it's just the giant bag of bigotry and resentment for any minority group that attracts personality types like yours. Anyone speaking out in defense of themselves is considered a threat to your imagined status, and way of life.

Every generation laments the dying of prejudices that helped define their identity in the past, and it's difficult for them to watch as they become anachronisms, but there is nothing you can do to stop it. Morrissey is no exception.

The fear being displayed by many men is a sign that they know that can't stop the shift, and they will have to adjust their perceptions, and behavior.

The Internet will always be the last bastion of unrepentant bigotry, and callousness. Good luck taking that with you out into society. See where it gets you.

Feel comfort in knowing that you can screech anonymously about this or that here, but you're not changing how society at large treats these issues.

You would think that lesson would have been learned after the thousandth reputation was destroyed via Twitter, and Facebook, but the self-sabotage goes on, and on.

Keep screaming into the abyss. Society is not the Internet.
 
This stuff gets silly. Someone says on Twitter, "England haven't been to the World Cup semi-final since X..." and the keyboard feminists get up in arms about the women's team that actually had been to a semi-final more recently. But this is the MEN'S World Cup. I can't imagine anyone complaining during the women's World Cup if a commentator didn't include the men's teams because why on earth would they considering that it's totally irrelevant to the torunament?

One day the 500th best male tennis player in the world is going to work out that if he changes his name to Doris and puts on a bit of lippy he’ll make a fortune.
 
Certainly there are some pay discrepancies that are often tied to personality differences between men and women. The fact is, corporate culture does tend to favour men when it comes to higher positions (which also happen to pay more, of course), largely due to personality and the need to be tough, aggressive, and hard, etc.. We can only fight back against biology so much though—some things are just rather evolutionary.

There is definitely nothing wrong with encouraging women to "ask for more" where appropriate. That comes off as kind of patronizing, but in terms of the law, there is no policy that needs to be changed that feminism can really address. We are talking about individual concerns here for the most part, and otherwise, we are dealing with millions of years of evolution that have resulted in men and women being somewhat different. There is nothing wrong with that, despite what feminism might insist.

It might sound off topic but it's not. I'm reading a book '' Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking' (Susan Cain).
According to Cain we live in a society where the characteristic associated to extroversion are the winning ones. Those who are extrovert are more likely that introvert to access managerial positions. She points that introverts tend to try to pretend to be extrovert as this is what society accepts. But it's wrong as introverts have their own ways to lead, their own power. It's the same for women, we don't need be like men, we have our own way to be leaders. The problem is that our society doesn't accept a different approach.
 
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Dominika Cibulkova is a fine tennis player.

I think the thing about this current strange Handmaid’s Tale version of feminism is just how oddly Puritan it is. It seems to consist largely of rather posh, wealthy media women telling poorer, less educated women how to behave. F1 grid girls? NFL cheerleaders? “Get thee behind me Satan!” Rotherham child sex abuse? Ummm... Well that’s different...

It reminds me of the way Lady Marjorie would summon the Head House Parlour Maid for a telling off in Upstairs Downstairs. It’s all terribly prim and proper.

You can easily imagine Maddow or Maitlis covering up the table legs before their feminist group turns up to finish the eight foot high anatomically correct woollen vagina for Saturday’s march.
In the words of a Russian woman I knew in China and quite liked actually, when she was drunk & describing Western feminism/asking about it:
“It’s about women not f***ing anymore.”
Language can be a wonderful thing :D
 
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The Internet will always be the last bastion of unrepentant bigotry, and callousness. Good luck taking that with you out into society. See where it gets you.

Not that he is anyone I'd want to defend, but on a factual level, Donald Trump took out his unrepentant bigotry (and callousness), showed it to the world, and made it all the way to the Presidency of the United States. Things may be different in England.
 
Dominika Cibulkova is a fine tennis player.

I think the thing about this current strange Handmaid’s Tale version of feminism is just how oddly Puritan it is. It seems to consist largely of rather posh, wealthy media women telling poorer, less educated women how to behave. F1 grid girls? NFL cheerleaders? “Get thee behind me Satan!” Rotherham child sex abuse? Ummm... Well that’s different...

It reminds me of the way Lady Marjorie would summon the Head House Parlour Maid for a telling off in Upstairs Downstairs. It’s all terribly prim and proper.

You can easily imagine Maddow or Maitlis covering up the table legs before their feminist group turns up to finish the eight foot high anatomically correct woollen vagina for Saturday’s march.

No, they're just sick of sexual harassment, and having sex used as a bargaining chip in their careers.

As we have seen by the many cases that have come out, this harassment goes much deeper than I think even the most cynical people believed, and is exercised by people who we would never have suspected.

A lot has been hidden from public view. It's the same with child molestation. It's a lot more common than society let on, and social media has allowed those stories to be told where families would have hidden them in the past.

One thing's for sure, time is up and it's not going to be tolerated any more. You can kick and scream, and rant about feminists, and religion or any other kind of nonsense, but women will be the ultimate judge of what they find acceptable behavior from men.

If that scares you, then there's a park bench somewhere that you can mutter to yourself on. You're the past.

Go be Papa John. Speaking like an Internet troll has worked wonderfully for him.
 
The women on the professional tennis circuit tend to be overly muscular. I'm not sure what Morrissey would have to say about that, but I'd love to read his (verbose) description.
 
He just keeps on stepping in it, doesn't he? First he ensures that he's no longer attractive to the left, and now, women. Everybody knows he's not big on the ladies, but what a f***ing knob this guy has turned into. When time travel is invented, I'll send word back to myself in 1991 not to bother.

EDIT: Hey Thewlis, marking me down will not save your boy. Let's see where he is in two years.

Why don't you stop bothering now?
 
All politics is identity politics, and there isn't a more ideological, and strict version of that than conservatism. The fact that you're doing the very thing you claim to hate seems to be lost on you. No self-awareness.

Raving about nationalism, and immigrants, and your white identity is identity politics on steroids.

Also, you don't seem to grasp the difference between gender and sex. You think they're the same. Their difference is a scientific fact, and this is only controversial to small minds.

Why any of this threatens you is a mystery, but I suspect it's just the giant bag of bigotry and resentment for any minority group that attracts personality types like yours. Anyone speaking out in defense of themselves is considered a threat to your imagined status, and way of life.

Every generation laments the dying of prejudices that helped define their identity in the past, and it's difficult for them to watch as they become anachronisms, but there is nothing you can do to stop it. Morrissey is no exception.

The fear being displayed by many men is a sign that they know that can't stop the shift, and they will have to adjust their perceptions, and behavior.

The Internet will always be the last bastion of unrepentant bigotry, and callousness. Good luck taking that with you out into society. See where it gets you.

Feel comfort in knowing that you can screech anonymously about this or that here, but you're not changing how society at large treats these issues.

You would think that lesson would have been learned after the thousandth reputation was destroyed via Twitter, and Facebook, but the self-sabotage goes on, and on.

Keep screaming into the abyss. Society is not the Internet.

Keep patronising people. It’s working really well.
 
OK Simon, Im sure everybody here thinks you are the next William Buckley.:crazy::laughing:

DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER!!!????:swear
DID YOU???:swear
(Pardon me,ma'am,your Simon gender?)

YES YES MY SIMON GENDER DID YOU ASSUME?:swear:yum:
HOW DARE YOU!!!:ahhh: dont you see I have a GREAT DANE that eats lipstick with ME!!??:swear
I assume you reproduce asexually like some kind of tiny floating thing in a stagnant pond. Out of necessity rather than choice. As far as your gender goes, I prefer to think of you built like a Ken or Barbie. Just a smooth expanse where the fun parts should be.
 
Except from the fact Moz made those statements because of my old posts here at Solo he also listened to this:

 
All politics is identity politics, and there isn't a more ideological, and strict version of that than conservatism. The fact that you're doing the very thing you claim to hate seems to be lost on you. No self-awareness.

Raving about nationalism, and immigrants, and your white identity is identity politics on steroids.

Also, you don't seem to grasp the difference between gender and sex. You think they're the same. Their difference is a scientific fact, and this is only controversial to small minds.

Why any of this threatens you is a mystery, but I suspect it's just the giant bag of bigotry and resentment for any minority group that attracts personality types like yours. Anyone speaking out in defense of themselves is considered a threat to your imagined status, and way of life.

Every generation laments the dying of prejudices that helped define their identity in the past, and it's difficult for them to watch as they become anachronisms, but there is nothing you can do to stop it. Morrissey is no exception.

The fear being displayed by many men is a sign that they know that can't stop the shift, and they will have to adjust their perceptions, and behavior.

The Internet will always be the last bastion of unrepentant bigotry, and callousness. Good luck taking that with you out into society. See where it gets you.

Feel comfort in knowing that you can screech anonymously about this or that here, but you're not changing how society at large treats these issues.

You would think that lesson would have been learned after the thousandth reputation was destroyed via Twitter, and Facebook, but the self-sabotage goes on, and on.

Keep screaming into the abyss. Society is not the Internet.

I like this response a lot. Thank you. It helps me to demonstrate the crux of what we are talking about here. Even if you advocate for moderate, liberal positions, the extremist crazies call you a far-right racist sexist Nazi. It becomes boring after a while. Their own bigotry is sublimated in to this automatic response, and there seems to be no intelligence or distinction in the matter.

I'm actually a classical liberal. It's not my fault that liberalism has been hijacked by pinko kooks. Try again!
 
In the words of a Russian woman I knew in China and quite liked actually, when she was drunk & describing Western feminism/asking about it:
“It’s about women not f***ing anymore.”
Language can be a wonderful thing :D
Nothing could be more true here in Sweden. This is not a political debate to me it is the development of our biology and nature trying hard to cull the population.
 
Not that he is anyone I'd want to defend, but on a factual level, Donald Trump took out his unrepentant bigotry (and callousness), showed it to the world, and made it all the way to the Presidency of the United States. Things may be different in England.

No matter how one interprets Trump, this is a fair enough point. Conservatism/classical liberalism/libertarianism, or otherwise the "big-tent" opposition to modern liberalism (also know as illiberal communism) that Trump managed to mainstream and mobilize, is much more attractive than what the other side has to offer. Whether you like that or not, if you're on the left, you have to do something about it, presumably, if you want to win elections again.

Personally, I have pretty much given up on the modern left. But if leaders would step up and salvage liberalism from the clutches of communism, you would have plenty of people to win back—potentially myself included.
 

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