Morrissey: "Current feminism does not help our societies and makes masculinism retaliate" - Culto

Discussion in 'General Discussion archive 2018 (read-only)' started by Famous when dead, Jul 29, 2018.

By Famous when dead on Jul 29, 2018 at 3:08 PM
  1. Famous when dead

    Famous when dead Vulgarian Moderator

    Dec 7, 2000
    Birmingham, U.K.
    I will preface this article with a couple of caveats: firstly, it has gone through translate and secondly, context and details are lacking. It should be noted that the title is part of one question asked and not the main topic - it is a bit misleading. Only a few questions with lots of commentary/background.

    In Culto (part of La Tercera), by Andrés del Real (29th July, 2018):

    Morrissey: "Current feminism does not help our societies and makes masculinism retaliate"

    Click the spoiler to see the full article in Google translated English:
    Morrissey: "Current feminism does not help our societies and makes masculinism retaliate"

    How does a celebrity adapt to the times? Probably not being Morrissey, who, true to his style and before his return to Chile, shoots against modern feminism, the English press and "the culture of the negation of the left".
    Last month, an indeterminate number of English self-styled "former admirers of Morrissey" announced on social networks a party against racism in Manchester, set for the same night that the British artist, his exidolo, would come to the city with the tour promotional of his most recent album, Low in high school. The reason? The statements that the former Smith of The Smiths had made days before, taking pity on the situation of the founder of the movement of extreme right English Defense League, Tommy Robinson, sentenced to 13 months in prison for contempt of court. Coincidence or not, days before the shows, the singer announced the cancellation of his dates in Manchester and all the rest of his European tour, due to "logistical problems".

    The episode is added to the increasingly extensive list of polemics starring the soloist, who with the same voice with which for decades has captivated different generations of followers in search of an answer to their torments and depressions, has also got into a series of problems and controversies, for statements against the British monarchy -one of its favorite targets-, multicultural Europe and immigration, and even the #metoo feminist movement, relativizing the denunciations against Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey, among others. His verbal incontinence seems to go against the current tendency of his colleagues, quick to bend to all the causes that drive certain opinion leaders and many of their own followers.

    But even the sharpest language at some point knows when to stop, and Steven Patrick Morrissey is no exception: consulted by Worship about what happened in Manchester, the musician opts for silence. It is the only answer that he decides to omit from a questionnaire sent via mail at his request, in which, before launching a series of darts against various causes and modern institutions, he gives praise to the Chilean public.

    "It's always great for me to go to Chile. I feel that I am valued there as a serious artist, rather than as mere entertainment for the media,"

    says the 59-year-old soloist, once dubbed by the press of his country as "The Pope of Depression", from of the semi-divine cult that generates its sensitive and enlightened voice, which unleashes extreme and conflicting passions. A church that in Chile, despite its history of controversy, the canceled tours and the headaches that suppose for the producers their vegan demands and their particular character -recognized by the former director of the Viña Festival, Álex Hernández, who asked that the Briton "I hope he does not come back" - he still has a respectable legion of faithful, as the six presentations that the artist accumulates in the country prove,

    - In recent years, many of his statements to the press have generated controversy, including rejection and even campaigns against him. Do you feel that in these times it is difficult to express a different opinion to the predominant or politically incorrect current? Is it difficult today to be critical of modern life?

    - It is difficult in England, where all the written press is controlled by the left, which does not want an open debate or a different opinion. The left is closed minded and works very hard to maintain a culture of denial. If you do not agree with the left, you are massacred in the press for being a racist fanatic, your public is ridiculed and every effort is made to silence you. If you question Islam or multiculturalism, the BBC radio will not reproduce your music because Islam is now a dominant ideology in the United Kingdom. I oppose halal killing [a type of preparation of animal flesh according to Islamic law] as well as I oppose any killing of animals, and that is the reason why the "Loony Left" [term with which the European extreme left is pejoratively called in certain sectors of the United Kingdom] has tried to destroy me. My views are not controversial, but if you question Islam you can be sent to jail without a trial. This is Soviet Britain, it's very real, and it's too big a problem to take over.

    - Is feminism a topic that worries or generates a particular opinion? Do you think that musicians and artists in general have the responsibility to express a position on this topic today?

    -I discovered feminism when I was 14 years old. By then, it was the answer to everything, because it freed all people, not just women. I read And Jill Came Tumbling After (Judith Stacey), The Female Eunuch (Germaine Greer), Women and Madness(Phyllis Chesler) and they changed my point of view. Modern feminism is not the same because it seems to aspire to "whatever men do," and that seems to be enough. Therefore, it becomes a great success, for example, to have a female football team or a group of girls in a boy scout club. The original goal of feminism was to move towards a higher intellectual plane, but now it only seems to want to occupy masculine positions and receive male aggression. It does not help our societies and, on the contrary, it causes masculinism to retaliate. Female leaders in Germany and the United Kingdom have made a mess of those countries, and this does not help modern feminism either. In all matters what I ask of the people is that they think for themselves. Collect your own material and you will reach your own conclusions. It is easy. Just stop watching the news!

    Music does not change the world
    The criticisms of the voice of "How soon is now?" To the media are not new and have increased in the last time. Answering through his email seems to be the way he chose to communicate publicly, after he himself announced, last December during a concert in Germany, his decision to stop giving interviews to the written press, after accusing the newspaper Der Spiegel twisted his words in an interview in which, among other things, he would have indicated that the actor Kevin Spacey has been "unnecessarily attacked" after accusations of sexual abuse against him, and even that he would kill the president of the United States, Donald Trump, if the opportunity were given.

    But it has been the media in his country that have responded the hardest to the soloist. His eleventh solo album, Low in high school(2017), perhaps the most overtly political work of his discography, was warmly received by the specialized critics. And while an opinion column in The Guardian newspaper a few weeks ago called simply to "stop listening" to Morrissey's music, NME magazine this month published the story of Johnny Turner, a guy who imitates the singer in a tribute band to The Smiths, who confessed that these days people stop him in the street and contact him on social networks to insult him and threaten him if he supports the controversial sayings of his idol. If before being a fan of "Moz" was tantamount to declaring a misfit, today, in a time of greater sensitivity to certain causes postponed and in which many young people have chosen to "veto" their social networks to celebrities who do not share their opinions ,

    - In this era of musical consumption via streaming, social networks and post-truth, do you think that music, the lyrics of a song, can change the world? Or at least make it a little better?

    -We are very closed and I think we resort to music to discover who or what we are. Music tells us how to escape from certain things. It does not change the world, because songs are like art arrows and can not really compete with the silly spectacle of war, money and political violence ... which is what makes the world go round. The songs mitigate the trauma of ... just being alive.

    - In 2019 it will turn 60 years old. Is it something that bothers you or that you receive with peace of mind? Do you see yourself singing on stage and publishing albums for many more years?

    -I feel somewhat insensitive with respect to age. Everything happens so fast that it is difficult to even know what is really happening. As long as I have a good pulse, I know that I will have the initiative to sing. I am not a chosen one, I have never been promoted to be fashionable or I am where I am because of my appearance, therefore, I have not moved away from the original need to sing. You must continue as if everyone is listening to you ... Even if they are not!

    Article link:

    Article source:

    Anyone from Chile in the know?

    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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    1. gordyboy9
      yip,its on its way to you.
    2. Derek17
      I'm not sure if you believe strongly what you are saying above or it is just being bandied about for the sake of discussion, so don't take the below too harshly on a personal level. I just think you should really question what you're saying here for a second.

      What you're saying, in effect, is that until men and women are indistinguishable in every practical way, feminism will be required. Whether feminists like to admit it or not, women and men tend to have different strengths, preferences, and ways of going about things. Are you concerned that people who mend power-lines are, like, 98% men? What about the male workplace mortality rate? Do you think women should be put in positions that would disproportionately threaten their livelihoods? Is that really the goal of feminism, and if so, why?

      Sorry, but we can deal with the minor social qualms that you bring up on an individual basis. I'm not saying that caring for a family member is insignificant; it's obviously very important on an individual level. However, we don't need a radical ideology (or misguided laws) to instruct us on how adult women and men ought to behave in such personal situations.

      If feminism had its way, the father would have to give birth 50% of the time and the mother would be able to sit and watch the baseball game while her husband was in labour. Well, equality is great, but you can't ignore biology and science—not to mention millions of years of evolution!—just "cuz feminism."
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    3. Light Housework
      Light Housework
      Ivanka has suffered a setback. Her clothing line suffered and she's announced she's closing it.
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    4. Oh my god. it's Robby!
      Oh my god. it's Robby!
      Ok dude, well you show me statistic that says women DONT sacrifice more their husbands, children, parents, family in general and you know what?
      I can say with complete and utter certainty that it is wrong.
    5. Peppermint
      I feel a bit differently, G, although those are all completely valid arguments. I'm absolutely not mocking people taking a stand for equal pay, or the fundamental right to go to work (or anywhere else) without being molested. But I think there are many reasons why 'feminism' hasn't achieved total across-the-board equality, and they are complex and multi-layered.

      The thing is, not everybody has read the memo. Some women actually want to defer to a more traditionally dominant partner. Some women freely use sex appeal - and even sex - to get what they want, but are still shocked when men turn this around on them. Some women are really happy posing naked for men to ogle them in national newspapers. Some people feel this is demeaning and undermines feminism; others insist it's 'empowering'. Meanwhile we live in the most sexualised age there has ever been: music is pushed at us by semi-naked, aggressively gyrating blow-up dolls; pre-pubescent girls are pouting for the camera on social media; it has become normal for women to strip to their underwear (or less), and post pictures to the world online; and one of the most idolised women in the world is famous for simply having an enormous arse. No wonder we still sometimes struggle to be taken seriously.

      The orange-hued leader of the free world may make us all rage and gag, but he is married to an exquisite Barbie doll who is seemingly willing to overlook it all for the money and the clothing allowance. In some ways we have come so far, and others we are still shooting ourselves in the stilettoed foot. No wonder men are confused about it all.

      I think what bothers me most about 'feminism' is the label itself. It's like a whiny hashtag or a badge of suffering and it trumpets what should be obvious. Absolutely we should tackle the injustices, but I've never felt the need to join a club. I find myself much more upset about the appalling lack of women's rights in places like Saudi Arabia, and the practices in underdeveloped societies like FGM, enforced marriages, gang-rapes, public stonings and honour killings. This is proper suffering through inequality and bothers me much more than 'Somebody touched my bum in 1992 and I've just decided I'm really upset about it'.

      I was moved last week by the obituary of Mary Ellis, the last surviving female WW2 Spitfire pilot who has just died aged 101. Pioneering, courageous, and by all accounts an absolute legend. I would love to have heard her views on feminism.
      Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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    6. Johnny Barleycorn
      Johnny Barleycorn
      Quite. The people who collect my bins are all men. Little evidence of equality for females making inroads into the lugging-stinking-bins-of-shit-about business.

      I think part of the issue with this current strain of more radical feminism is that is so closely allied to the left and to racial and sexual politics it is unlikely to consider any “concessions” to be enough. It’s less a movement and closer to a religion for some.

      That’s not an argument not to make changes, just that it is likely that demands from a vanishingly small Twatterati will continue regardless. I think you can probably divine that from the issues they aren’t terribly interested in, such as FGM, amongst many others. Instead they are far more interested in posters of bikini models on the Tube or that the Miss America pageant contestants come on dressed as Miffy Goodwyfe.

      I don’t want to put anyone off their breakfast, but there’s another difficulty facing full equality, which Derek touched upon. As long as human procreation involves one partner sticking something in the other the aspiration of total equality will continue to prove elusive.
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    7. Johnny Barleycorn
      Johnny Barleycorn
      A remarkable woman, and her death came so soon after that of Geoffrey Wellum, a Spitfire pilot who fought in the Battle of Britain.

      I heard an interview Mary Ellis gave some years ago on the radio last week. She’d fly a Lancaster or Wellington bomber solo to some remote airfield somewhere, land, wander off for a cuppa, and the ground crew would wait around for the pilot to get out, not realising the pilot had already done so. You can only imagine how much that must have amused her.
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    8. Peppermint
      Yes. And you can bet your life she wouldn't have started a Twitter hashtag about it (had she been able to).
    9. Johnny Barleycorn
      Johnny Barleycorn
      A superb post, Peppermint. I read the Guardian everyday as part of my penance to society and it’s noticable how the reaction to what they consider widespread misogyny is to engage in startling levels of misandry.

      By the way, this happened a couple of days ago... Salford City Academy (a boys team) defeated Manchester United Women 9-0, then...

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    10. Anonymous
      Women only want to make a football team or go back to Scouts. It is very reductive and macho to reduce the conditions of the woman to that!

      To make us believe that feminism before it was better than today's is simply pitiful.

      For equal work, a man earns more than a woman, he does not talk about it.

      That in 2018 a woman can be harassed by a man she does not know in the street in the middle of the day, make inappropriate gestures and insults, and finally hit her because she told him "Shut up".
      But apart from that the women do not have to complain, according to him, since their fight and in the wrong direction.

      And, then say that the media are controlled by the left, how to say .... There is only him to believe it, and we stand out the fantasy of the Soviet Britain added .... to Islam, more defend Robison (sorry, but if you break the law, you are punished ... unless it concerns someone who has the same ideas as you, the law is poorly made .. Well done Moz, you just prove that for you there are two different sets and that you take or invents examples only to support your statements and rejects all that could harm your words ...... and who is the Soviet dictator now?)

      And the Chilean fans .... They are great !!!!!!
      Wait to see if tomorrow a tide of Chilean immigrants land in England, we will see if he hold the same speech!
      Ditto for the Latino community, he loves them, just because they buy his records and go to his concerts.
      If Moz supported Trump, his same Latinos, would be for him only immigrants who come to steal, rape and drugs dealer in the USA .....
      If tomorrow, the Iraqi, Syrian or any Middle Eastern community declares that they are fans of Moz, whether they buy their records or go to their concerts .... I bet Moz will change his speech .....

      It's nice to put MLK on a single sleeve, or tweet to the death of Dick Greogry, just to have an alibi and say "look, I'm not racist" ... What an argument!
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    11. Anonymous
      Give us a REAL proof of that!
      Because I'm really curious to read your arguments and proof about this.
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    12. Anonymous
      It's becoming the norm not only on this thread, but on this forum.... Unfortunately....
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    13. bhops
      For many women it is not a 'sacrifice' it is a choice. I had a girlfriend back in the day that had a law degree from Oxford but hankered to be a stay at home mum. She didn't see this as any type of sacrifice. Many women (but not all) see the choice of being a homemaker as no sacrifice but rather a nurturing a really important role in the family dynamic, perhaps the most important role there is.
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    14. Peppermint
      Thanks, JB. That tweet made my morning and encapsulates everything I feel about women's football. I would defend to the death their right to do it, but I'd rather cut my toenails than watch it. To me it's the most irrelevant, uninspiring and sometimes unintentionally hilarious idea which seems to exist only to make a point. Good luck to them, though. That's me properly slung out of the sisterhood now.
    15. Anonymous

      Mexican jumping beans.
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    16. Anonymous
      Tbf, most of the of the other far-right discussion forums have threads like this too.
    17. vegan.cro spirit# 568
      vegan.cro spirit# 568

      I remember that video that made the rounds years ago, a tape of applicants wanting to be firemen. You had to take a ladder run with it to a wall, place it against the wall, clime the ladder and then go over the wall. Pretty simple. A dude would show on the tape running and going over the wall. Then a chick would come, took longer because she would end up dragging the ladder having difficulty in carrying it over her shoulder.
      Then she would place and commence to climb only to get halfway up and then scream 'AHHHHHHH" and fall backwards into the ground, ladder and all. Next dude, no problem, ladder and climb. Next chick: ladder, climb, hollering "HEEELLP ME JESUS", KABUNG down to the ground.:handok:

      I wanted the video nominated for an Oscar.:flushed:
    18. scatterkeir
      I'm not suprised by this, but I wasn't expecting it.

      I thought that given the strength of his past beliefs feminism might be exempted from his uncritical drinking of Steve Bannon's piss, but no. He's just drawn a line between good old feminism and feminism today as described by Steve Bannon.

      What the fuck is wrong with the man?

      As with so many things in 2018 I can't rule out toxplasmosis.
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    19. countthree
      Well, imagine the rest of the women if things are worst for her.
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    20. Johnny Barleycorn
      Johnny Barleycorn
      I doubt anybody actively objects if women play football, rugby, cricket, whatever, whenever, wherever. When it is used as a political stick to attack the game, however, the parameters swiftly change.

      What I do think is ludicrous is that, for example, Liverpool’s first team sells out Anfield several times a month, while the women’s team pulls in about seven hundred per home match at another venue yet there have been calls for pay parity with the men. Who foots the bill for such indulgences?

      One of the great club sides in Switzerland is the famous BSC Young Boys of Bern. Founded one hundred and twenty years ago. Twelve times Swiss champions. They have a female team, and yes, don't worry, it is called Young Boys Women.
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