Morrissey as folk devil

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
It's Moz's curse that everything he does that's approved of disappears down a memory hole & everything that's disapproved of is like The 10 Commandments.

In 2016 he was asked to stand for The Animal Welfare Party. Nothing came of it but he released a statement saying his focus would be animal rights & banning the abattoir.


After Pingate, OwnRacegate & Central posting a dubious video that compared rapper Stormzy's positive media coverage (he wore a Union Jack police vest) with Moz's negative media coverage (not being allowed near a Union Jack has been a Moz lament since 1992 & Central's social media manager is his nephew Sam, who as far as anyone can tell will post absolutely anything) Billy Bragg managed to obsessively refresh Google hoping to see Morrissey denounced AND Google the Animal Welfare Party, who he was convinced would benefit from Moz's support, without discovering that Moz HAD supported them.

He also didn't see the irony in claiming that Moz - a man with well-documented mental health issues, social anxiety & who had been physically ill since collapsing on stage in 2009 - had abandoned outsiders & sided with bullies while cheerleading him being made a pariah by the entire arts & media establishment.

Or the irony that as literally no one could remember Moz supporting The Animal Welfare Party & as Anne Marie Waters was unlikely to make headway with abolishing abattoirs, without the furore that greeted his pin, he would likely have quietly moved on, giving For Britain very little publicity. But then that would be wasting the opportunity to spaf moral supremacy all over their peer group.

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In furtherance of which, Billy also managed to get in a dig at Morrissey's talent (he stole his best line) & sexuality (from a film that featured homosexuality) while concern trolling fans of The Smiths & shitting on his best friend's legacy (he's heartbroken). But what did old records have to do with modern politics? Unless Moz was now so degenerate they had to be burned.


There was silence from the Moz camp - probably because they're used to these accusations & didn't realise that Twitter would make it into an international shitstorm that would have killed most artists stone dead.

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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Morrissey asked us to support For Britain because they are 'the best hope for British veganism'? You are either a total f***wit or a complete liar. There was not one single word about veganism or animal rights in his post urging us to support them. Just a load of horrible, nauseating, dog whistle far-right crap about the bulldog spirit, keeping the country safe, and being ruled by one law. Any decent person with half a brain knows exactly what is meant by these words. That you twist them to imply it's all about veganism reveals you to be an absolute liar.

I don't twist the quotes & you're the liar.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
In 1992, Moz, who had something of a crush on a member of Madness, played a gig with them at Finsbury Park.

During his set he was subjected to homophobic verbal abuse & was violently assaulted as the crowd hurled coins & bottles.

Increasing angry he threw the Union Jack about & was so incensed or distressed by the 'loathsome yobbos' that he refused to play the 2nd day of the 2 day booking.


Nowadays he could phone the police & they would investigate it as a hate crime.

Back then he was denounced as a drama queen, who had blown it with his imagery & let his fans down.

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The NME implied he was a racist & a fascist.

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Cornershop burned his picture outside EMI.

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He was essentially gay bashed in public.

The press knew he was gay bashed.

And he was being attacked for his art.

And for refusing to explain himself.

Years later the NME plunged him into yet another race row because he thought Knightsbridge - the most expensive street in London - had lost its local character.

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28 years later The Guardian asks if he was showing his true colours.

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Love Music Hate Racism uses it to say he has a long history of supporting Far Right organisations - his only other 'support' being a comment that The BNP should be allowed to speak - which also turned into a race row.

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& former friends eager to cast him out as a tax exile (foreign now, nothing to do with them) have never said a word about it.

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It's worth noting that of the 3 far right figures Moz has been associated with - Douglas Murray is gay, Anne Marie Waters is gay & Tommy Robinson has been lurking round wedge issues trying to persuade minorities that the left has chucked them under the bus.

& if you read Morrissey's press there are numerous examples of homophobic or transphobic jibes. For example, David Quantick, who hates him enough to have created 2019's #Moztits hashtag, describing him in 1997 as 'Mozz Flanders in a dank cellette'.

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GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
Maybe it's worth noting that his connection to Madness was based on something a bit more substantial than "a crush".

Morrissey admitted to being a Madness fan, and honestly that's hardly surprising. They were funny, unusual, political or, as he put it, not "standard pop fare".

In 1989 he started working with Madness producers Clive Langer and Alan Winstanley, with Langer quickly being drawn into "Morrissey World", as he would call it. (He basically took the spot previously held by Marr and Street, acting as Morrissey's buffer from and link to the outside world.)
They were his initial connection to the band, which led to Suggs and Cathal Smyth doing backing vocals on some songs and Bedders playing bass on Kill Uncle.

Madness themselves also had a history of clashing with their own crowd. In their early days, there was an incident of a support act being exposed to racist chants from the extreme right-wing skinhead portion of the audience and also people doing the Hitler salute.
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Maybe it's worth noting that his connection to Madness was based on something a bit more substantial than "a crush".

Morrissey admitted to being a Madness fan, and honestly that's hardly surprising. They were funny, unusual, political or, as he put it, not "standard pop fare".

In 1989 he started working with Madness producers Clive Langer and Alan Winstanley, with Langer quickly being drawn into "Morrissey World", as he would call it. (He basically took the spot previously held by Marr and Street, acting as Morrissey's buffer from and link to the outside world.)
They were his initial connection to the band, which led to Suggs and Cathal Smyth doing backing vocals on some songs and Bedders playing bass on Kill Uncle.

Madness themselves also had a history of clashing with their own crowd. In their early days, there was an incident of a support act being exposed to racist chants from the extreme right-wing skinhead portion of the audience and also people doing the Hitler salute.

Thanks!
 
A

Art Blakey

Guest
Are Nerak and Uncle Skinny connected? Someone said to me they thought Nerak might be a Freemason. Not sure about that as it is mostly men who are Freemasons. I think they have ladies days at lodges. Not totally sure if women can be Freemasons. It was to do with her Scottish connections the 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Freemasons. She has connections with London as well doesn't she? And connections with law and the theatre. She must be a bright and cultured lady.
I don't know anything is possible. Doesn't she have a connection with the Roman Catholic Church as well? They feed right into the elite the Jesuits are part of the Roman Catholic Church.

I wonder what a ladies day would be like at a Masonic Lodge?

There is another possibility that she is one of the 'bots' on here by that I mean a robot? Or could be paid to be here by the British Labour Party or another left-wing organisation?
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
The Der Spiegel row did the most damage. It was bigger than social media & sent every journalist back on a quest for word crimes.

Signs of trouble:

He directly relates news to mental health - & she doesn't ask if or how it affected him.

He always sounds gentle in audios & usually gets written up as if he's ranting.

She's been told not to ask about politics - so obviously someone is concerned - she asks anyway.

He tells her he's exhausted by journalists saying he means something that he doesn't mean & happily talking to him & then morally correcting him in print. Which is what she does.

He's not sleeping.

She calls Jackie a stupid song & laughs when he says he tries to look good - which is when she should have been politely shown the door.

He reads 8 or so books at a time but has never heard of the BDS movement so he might have ideas but he's got no experience.

He's talking about political structures & she's talking about Twitter shitstorms.

The vast bulk of the interview is about animals & music; his main purpose is getting abattoirs banned - he compares it to Auschwitz again (which always goes down badly because most people can't imagine seeing animals as equal). He doesn't like generic songs. Most of it is cut.

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She asks about killing Trump. He says he would. It's hypothetical, but he seems to feel he was accused of making a real death threat. Again.

She asks if he's been following #MeToo - he says he did until it got too theatrical. He says nothing about Weinstein at all. It's about keeping perspective, clumsy courtships & later twists back on to the casting couch in general.

She asks about Kevin Spacey being replaced in a film. He questions the circumstances based on the 70s groupie scene. She mentions David Bowie who slept with 14 year olds in his 20s. He condemns all forms of sexual violence. But thinks this story doesn't ring true, probably because of Bowie.


Then they're on to politics changing. She thinks bad leaders look like cartoon villains. He thinks the EU is the German Empire. (It does have the most clout.)

He talks about countries retaining their own identity - language, laws, common ground, things that people have fought for - it's not really controversial, but multiculturalism is one of those buzzwords where you're not allowed nuance - you must be wholly for or against - because that makes it quicker to write an opinion piece. (Dorian Lynskey will write that this means he approves of the Nazis.)

Then he tips in a bit of Russian internet gossip about the refugee crisis turning Berlin into the rape capital of Europe which is taken as an attack on refugees rather than as a comment about the political decision-making that led to chaos.

She says he's against immigration. He tries to clarify with a squeal, but it's too late. Journalists are under no obligation to print everything & only have to prove you said those words. Interpretation is fair comment.

Going by the interview his stance is that the refugee crisis shouldn't have happened; that there shouldn't be global inequality, that we shouldn't wage war & that we shouldn't destroy the environment.

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& that's very likely rooted in Ireland's experience of being politically crushed & starved into emigration by the British Empire. Taking people in after you've forced them out isn't as nice as it pretends to be.

It's also not the only angle. Small countries can benefit from the opportunities & tech created by global power. A serious debate about the issues would have been better than gleefully denouncing him & pushing anyone with any caveats further to the margins.

But that wouldn't be clickbait.


 
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ThePoliticalRevolution

Well-Known Member
The Der Spiegel row did the most damage. It was bigger than social media & sent every journalist back on a quest for word crimes.

Signs of trouble:

He directly relates news to mental health - & she doesn't ask if or how it affected him.

He always sounds gentle in audios & usually gets written up as if he's ranting.

She's been told not to ask about politics - so obviously someone is concerned - she asks anyway.

He tells her he's exhausted by journalists saying he means something that he doesn't mean & happily talking to him & then morally correcting him in print. Which is what she does.

He's not sleeping.

She calls Jackie a stupid song & laughs when he says he tries to look good - which is when she should have been politely shown the door.

He reads 8 or so books at a time but has never heard of the BDS movement so he might have ideas but he's got no experience.

He's talking about political structures & she's talking about Twitter shitstorms.

The vast bulk of the interview is about animals & music; his main purpose is getting abattoirs banned - he compares it to Auschwitz again (which always goes down badly because most people can't imagine seeing animals as equal). He doesn't like generic songs. Most of it is cut.

View attachment 60106

She asks about killing Trump. He says he would. It's hypothetical, but he seems to feel he was accused of making a real death threat. Again.

She asks if he's been following #MeToo - he says he did until it got too theatrical. He says nothing about Weinstein at all. It's about keeping perspective, clumsy courtships & later twists back on to the casting couch in general.

She asks about Kevin Spacey being replaced in a film. He questions the circumstances based on the 70s groupie scene. She mentions David Bowie who slept with 14 year olds in his 20s. He condemns all forms of sexual violence. But thinks this story doesn't ring true, probably because of Bowie.


Then they're on to politics changing. She thinks bad leaders look like cartoon villains. He thinks the EU is the German Empire. (It does have the most clout.)

He talks about countries retaining their own identity - language, laws, common ground, things that people have fought for - it's not really controversial, but multiculturalism is one of those buzzwords where you're not allowed nuance - you must be wholly for or against - because that makes it quicker to write an opinion piece. (Dorian Lynskey will write that this means he approves of the Nazis.)

Then he tips in a bit of Russian internet gossip about the refugee crisis turning Berlin into the rape capital of Europe which is taken as an attack on refugees rather than as a comment about the political decision-making that led to chaos.

She says he's against immigration. He tries to clarify with a squeal, but it's too late. Journalists are under no obligation to print everything & only have to prove you said those words. Interpretation is fair comment.

Going by the interview his stance is that the refugee crisis shouldn't have happened; that there shouldn't be global inequality, that we shouldn't wage war & that we shouldn't destroy the environment.

View attachment 60107

View attachment 60109

& that's very likely rooted in Ireland's experience of being politically crushed & starved into emigration by the British Empire. Taking people in after you've forced them out isn't as nice as it pretends to be.

But it's also not the only angle. Small countries can benefit from the opportunities & tech created by global power. A serious debate about the issues would have been better than gleefully denouncing him & pushing anyone with any caveats further to the margins.

But that wouldn't be clickbait.




THIS IS WHY YOU KEEP A MNDER IN THE ROOM. IF THAT HAD HAPPENED TO CLAPTON, THE INTERVIEWER WOULD HAVE BEEN EJECTED FROM HER CHAIR AND THROWN OUT OF THE ROOM BY ME PERSONALLY.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Pingate (Morrissey supporting, hopefully briefly, For Britain) is weird.

Anne Marie Waters, leader of For Britain, doesn't fit the far right mold. She was on the left - in The Labour Party, The National Secular Society & Muslim apostate charity One Law For All.

( https://order-order.com/2017/07/04/...ng-socialist-and-self-proclaimed-left-winger/ )
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She has a marginal identity.

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Hates her press coverage.

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Is a feminist, gay rights campaigner & a vegan.

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There is a real problem with legitimate criticism of political Islamism & religious bigotry being decried as Islamophobia.

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By 2013 she teamed up with Tommy Robinson whose hyped hooliganism contrasts with the memoryholed terrorism of his adversary Anjem Choudary



On her YouTube channel she asserts that she's not racist, not fascist, is sane, sensible & telling the truth.

For Britain has non-white members like Shazia Hobbs.


Some white supremacists are against her.

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But - she whines that Muslims are government favourites.

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She gave a speech to European Ethno-Nationalist group Generation Identity claiming she'd done the time, she may as well do the crime.

She larps as Prime Minister promising to remove non-white people for not being British enough by her definition.

She's ignorant about history, politics & religion preferring negative generalisations based on the "objective evidence" in anecdotes, YouTube videos & media reports.

She's unemployed & unemployable.

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She believes that Islam is uniquely violent & sexist, it deserves to be singled out, social attitudes are biological, non-white men are rapists, the Queen has been told the UK will be an Islamic state by 2050, the Pope isn't Christian enough, Trump was the last hope for The West & Black Lives Matter is a divide & rule Marxist plot.

Morrissey supports Liberation movements. After 9/11 his concern was with the people of Afghanistan & Iraq. That pivots a little with the Bataclan massacre. Islamic State are explicitly Imperial. Their aim is moral conformity & they've targeted venues, writers & gay men.




Morrissey trusts the internet, but doesn't know how to work it, directly relates soft media rhetoric to government inaction & believes the law is being unfairly applied. The left has been crushing dissent & the far right throws up anomalies.

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After decades of false accusations his judgement might be skewed.

The legacy/social media reaction - pariah, toxic, dead, purged, corruptor of children - has been lazy conflation & moral peacocking but the upshot is hard to predict, he's refusing to talk to the media, his social media is haphazard & he's been unwell.
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
It's not on the list of crimes - but he recommended Douglas Murray, who gingerly suggests bringing the far right into the mainstream to counter cultural Marxism's plan to destroy the West via high Islamic birthrates.

There is a hard left blind spot & some right-wing agreement

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Douglas goes beyond that & it's disseminated by Bloomsbury to complete silence, probably because most pundits would write for them.

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Also unmentioned is the left-wing defense of Nigel Farage, whenever someone is condemning Morrissey for mentioning a couple of times & never voting for him.



Or the obvious - that if divisiveness is bad, mounting a publicity campaign against Morrissey on antisocial hellsites without trying to reach out first, is divisive.

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Fake C

Active Member
The Der Spiegel row did the most damage. It was bigger than social media & sent every journalist back on a quest for word crimes.

Signs of trouble:

He directly relates news to mental health - & she doesn't ask if or how it affected him.

He always sounds gentle in audios & usually gets written up as if he's ranting.

She's been told not to ask about politics - so obviously someone is concerned - she asks anyway.

He tells her he's exhausted by journalists saying he means something that he doesn't mean & happily talking to him & then morally correcting him in print. Which is what she does.

He's not sleeping.

She calls Jackie a stupid song & laughs when he says he tries to look good - which is when she should have been politely shown the door.

He reads 8 or so books at a time but has never heard of the BDS movement so he might have ideas but he's got no experience.

He's talking about political structures & she's talking about Twitter shitstorms.

The vast bulk of the interview is about animals & music; his main purpose is getting abattoirs banned - he compares it to Auschwitz again (which always goes down badly because most people can't imagine seeing animals as equal). He doesn't like generic songs. Most of it is cut.

View attachment 60106

She asks about killing Trump. He says he would. It's hypothetical, but he seems to feel he was accused of making a real death threat. Again.

She asks if he's been following #MeToo - he says he did until it got too theatrical. He says nothing about Weinstein at all. It's about keeping perspective, clumsy courtships & later twists back on to the casting couch in general.

She asks about Kevin Spacey being replaced in a film. He questions the circumstances based on the 70s groupie scene. She mentions David Bowie who slept with 14 year olds in his 20s. He condemns all forms of sexual violence. But thinks this story doesn't ring true, probably because of Bowie.


Then they're on to politics changing. She thinks bad leaders look like cartoon villains. He thinks the EU is the German Empire. (It does have the most clout.)

He talks about countries retaining their own identity - language, laws, common ground, things that people have fought for - it's not really controversial, but multiculturalism is one of those buzzwords where you're not allowed nuance - you must be wholly for or against - because that makes it quicker to write an opinion piece. (Dorian Lynskey will write that this means he approves of the Nazis.)

Then he tips in a bit of Russian internet gossip about the refugee crisis turning Berlin into the rape capital of Europe which is taken as an attack on refugees rather than as a comment about the political decision-making that led to chaos.

She says he's against immigration. He tries to clarify with a squeal, but it's too late. Journalists are under no obligation to print everything & only have to prove you said those words. Interpretation is fair comment.

Going by the interview his stance is that the refugee crisis shouldn't have happened; that there shouldn't be global inequality, that we shouldn't wage war & that we shouldn't destroy the environment.

View attachment 60107

View attachment 60109

& that's very likely rooted in Ireland's experience of being politically crushed & starved into emigration by the British Empire. Taking people in after you've forced them out isn't as nice as it pretends to be.

It's also not the only angle. Small countries can benefit from the opportunities & tech created by global power. A serious debate about the issues would have been better than gleefully denouncing him & pushing anyone with any caveats further to the margins.

But that wouldn't be clickbait.


When you say "he says nothing about Weinstein at all," do you mean that he does not say the name "Harvey Weinstein?"

This entire paragraph is a mess:
"She asks about Kevin Spacey being replaced in a film. He questions the circumstances based on the 70s groupie scene. She mentions David Bowie who slept with 14 year olds in his 20s. He condemns all forms of sexual violence. But thinks this story doesn't ring true, probably because of Bowie."

You're "probably" intentionally obfuscating the interview. I hope it's intentional. You're worse than that interview with the nephew where he brought up everything Morrissey has been accused of for the last several years and only succeeded in stirring the embers into a whole new fire for Morrissey to be roasted over.
"He questions the circumstances based on the 70s groupie scene" is either a poor attempt at an "end run," meaning you're intentionally providing a new (and false) context for his statements about Spacey's victim, or maybe you actually believe this, and I'm not sure which of those choices makes you look less capable.

If you honestly do this for a living (something I have never been able to believe) you really should talk to some peers you respect about your approach. The response you've received here from fans has been largely negative and if this thread is your pitch to raise your profile or get a job I'm not sure how that's working out for you. I would like to be kind and say I admire your industriousness but it reads more like an unhealthy compulsion.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
The singer from Gene added this to the list of crimes for God knows why...

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The attitude to underage groupies in the 1970s is well documented & was still celebrated until #MeToo.

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Morrissey thought it was more important to change the system that enabled it - although he does seem to prefer not thinking about the actual crime aspect.

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Back in the 80s he was accused of paedophilia mainly because he was, or appeared to be, a gay singer with some dodgy lyrics.

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At the time gay men were considered so dangerous to children that the age of consent was 21 & Section 28 was introduced to stop homosexuality being mentioned in schools. Which bothered him even if he wouldn't directly campaign on it...

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Not to mention what the story behind this or his epic dysfunction might be:

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It got worse with Weinstein & Spacey because he deflected onto the casting couch & circumstances.

An entire industry covers abuse up for decades & in the case of Roman Polanski doesn't even cover it up & some pop singer is supposed to know all in a couple of interviews without even being on Twitter.... ???

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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
It's extraordinary that the UK press is so finely tuned to racism that Cornershop has to be protected from words like Bengali, Asian, Belong & English, but Morrissey has to accept being called a 'poofy bastard' & has to be entirely positive about genres with a history of homophobia.



He once said 'reggae is vile' & has never escaped opprobrium despite liking some reggae records like Young, Gifted and Black.



He's not keen on rap, but he does appreciate it.

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Panic was inspired by Chernobyl & aimed at Radio 1 but was accused of racism over the line 'burn down the Disco'.

Disco is primarily associated with it's most ardent fanbase, gay men. Between 1983 & 1985 born-again Christian Donna Summer caused intense outrage with an alleged series of homophobic remarks, including that AIDS is God's judgement on homosexuals. Fans & some Discos boycotted her, the gay press condemned her, Bronski Beat was under pressure for covering I Feel Love.



This was huge music news, but no hack thought to ask Morrissey if the line was a comment on the controversy?????

Or a comment on the widely perceived as homophobic & racist Disco Sucks movement spearheaded by a DJ?


Or just as a play on Disco Inferno?



There does seem to have been an agenda behind the racism accusations, either to punish him for his animal rights stance or to shame him into labelling his sexuality.

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His memoryholed love of Shirley Bassey could be read as camp, his enthusiasm for Black Box came from a rumour that the singer was trans.

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His relationship with music is volatile.

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His joke that you have to be black to get on Top Of The Pops (in reference to 1980s soul) was part of his career-long belief that the industry promotes pap & suppresses social commentary.

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Central posting an extremely dodgy video comparing him with Stormzy was likely a moan that everyone in music gets to be near a Union Jack apart from Morrissey.

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On a side note no one has suggested that there's no way back from Stormzy's homophobia...

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& his effective PR distressed Wiley so much that he accused his own manager of being part of a Jewish plot to replace black artists in their 40s with black artists in their 20s. This mid-life crisis recieved support from newspaper The Voice.

 
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Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
It's extraordinary that the UK press is so finely tuned to racism that Cornershop has to be protected from words like Bengali, Asian, Belonging & English, but Morrissey has to accept being called a 'poofy bastard' & has to be entirely positive about genres with a history of homophobia.



He once said 'reggae is vile' & has never escaped opprobrium despite liking some reggae records like Young, Gifted and Black.



He's not keen on rap, but he does appreciate it.

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Panic was inspired by Chernobyl & aimed at Radio 1 but was accused of racism over the line 'burn down the Disco'.

Disco is primarily associated with it's most ardent fanbase, gay men. Between 1983 & 1985 born-again Christian Donna Summer caused intense outrage with an alleged series of homophobic remarks, including that AIDS is God's judgement on homosexuals. Fans & some Discos boycotted her, the gay press condemned her, Bronski Beat was under pressure for covering I Feel Love.



This was huge music news, but no hack thought to ask Morrissey if the line was a comment on the controversy?????

Or a comment on the widely perceived as homophobic & racist Disco Sucks movement spearheaded by a DJ?


Or just as a play on Disco Inferno?



There does seem to have been an agenda behind the racism accusations, either to punish him for his animal rights stance or to shame him into labelling his sexuality.

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His memoryholed love of Shirley Bassey could be read as camp, his enthusiasm for Black Box came from a rumour that the singer was trans.

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His relationship with music is volatile.

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His joke that you have to be black to get on Top Of The Pops (in reference to 1980s soul) was part of his career-long belief that the industry promotes pap & suppresses social commentary.

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Central posting an extremely dodgy video comparing him with Stormzy was likely a moan that everyone in music gets to be near a Union Jack apart from Morrissey.

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On a side note no one has suggested that there's no way back from Stormzy's homophobia...

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& his effective PR distressed Wiley so much that he accused his own manager of being part of a Jewish plot to replace black artists in their 40s with black artists in their 20s. This mid-life crisis recieved support from newspaper The Voice.

Personally, I’d like to see you contribute a few pages, based on all of this, to a better music magazine (such as Louder than War, or Vive Le Rock). Have you thought about it?
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Personally, I’d like to see you contribute a few pages, based on all of this, to a better music magazine (such as Louder than War, or Vive Le Rock). Have you thought about it?

I have thought about it - I'm also happy for anyone to plunder in good faith. There's a couple of things I'm still puzzling over.
 
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