Morrissey and politics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anonymous, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    God I'm so tired of articles that reference the national front disco as evidence that morrissey is a racist. Why can't we just focus on his music? Israel for example is repeatedly being cited for the line where morrissey says the world is just jealous while ignoring that it is a very very good song. Really? The song comes down to one line?
     
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  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Because Morrissey has never just been about the music
     
  3. Uncleskinny

    Uncleskinny It's all good Moderator Premium

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    That is an immensely, immensely narrow view. You need to take everything else into consideration.
     
  4. butley

    butley Active Member

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    Since the first Smiths album Morrissey has stirred things up. He has been accused of promoting paedophilia, celebrating the Moors Murders, racism, misogyny. The list is long of what people have misinterpreted his lyrics to mean. True art stirs people up and provokes a reaction. Nobody else in popular music has rocked the boat anywhere near as much. I think Morrissey does try to get a reaction and knows some of his lyrics will ruffle feathers but I say let him say what he wants. He keeps us here all on our toes. The world does need shaking up but that being said I don't quite understand the lyrics to Israel (is he singing to someone called Israel?) and think the Kevin Spacey comments were foolish.
     
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  5. Quando quando quando

    Quando quando quando Well-Known Member

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    “I don't quite understand the lyrics to Israel (is he singing to someone called Israel?) and think the Kevin Spacey comments were foolish.”

    The way he sings about it (Israel) is exactly how it feels. Like he sings about and to a person. It is about the people and not the state or the government. Or taking sides as such. He didn’t. It is not about politics. Nothing in the song is pointing to Palestinians, or Arabs being responsible for all hatred and evil done.

    The line about being jealous as well doesn’t point to any specific group of people or nations and doesn’t not exclude western civilisation being responsible as well.

    Sometimes I get the impression he might sing about any other country he has been to and sing about it in the same way. I remember his expressed love for Italy that now has waned a bit.

    I think it is a wonderful song.

    Maybe his Spacey comments were foolish but he did not defend him.
    He explicitly stated he abhors any kind of rape and sexual harrasment so if Spacey is guilty of that (no trial yet and he hasn’t been convicted) you know his opinion on that.

    I know his comments were felt as hurtful but his comment about a 14 yrs old boy going to a party of adults and asking where were the parents, or parent isn’t that a reasonable question to ask?

    I know there are hundred thousands of children without any parents and isn’t THAT the route of the problem too?

    We all know we live in a dangerous world and there are people who can go on with this evil behaviour cause they get the chance.

    A child needs parents to look after it’s safety and well-being.
    .
     
  6. Nathalie

    Nathalie Guest

    I wanted to mean that long ago but I didn’t, until today :

    By asking « where were the parents”, M. Morrissey, implicitly asked this following question :
    « Would the same context (*1) have been created if an adult (parents or manager of the young actor) had accompanied him in this party?” => THAT’S ALL WHAT HE MEANS.

    (*1) Context = the non-accompanied young knew nobody to this party, got bored, isolated himself into the room to watch TV, the guests left, nobody to tell him, he is face to face with Spacey.

    BUT it was just enough to check off that M. Morrissey, in the immediacy of the interview, forgot 5 things, without attacking him as he was :

    1/ Law does not judge of “IF”, it judges presumed facts ; useless to rewrite the story, and Rapp admitted himself that he used to go to private parties or events alone when he was a minor.
    2/ The ignorance of some facts (not knowing that the person is minor for example) does not exculpate acts or intention of trying or completing the act.
    3/ The moments of « weakness » of the attacker (drunkenness for example) does not exculpate acts or intention of trying/completing the act.
    4/ The repeated attempts from Spacey, abuse on minors, logically lead to questionings, assessments, then a Court’s judgment (like the Weinstein case because of his systematic practises in his job)
    5/ The sexual majority in England is 16 years, 15 years in France ; this means that a minor has not the burden of proof but must to prove the physical restraint. X years after the presumed fact, that’s not easy and not won for Rapp… And he knows that, that’s why others testimonies have been arised.

    I don’t believe that M. Morrissey is a bad man ! I've read the whole interview. I've read a lot of things about the Weinstein case. Bad man. But in general, the border between consent and non-consent is not as large as we could think in some contexts. The proofs are not easy. This type of story is not as evident as you could think.
     
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  7. Oh my

    Oh my Enough! or Too much

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    When it comes to politics, Morrissey is not too far away from the classical British anarcho-punk bands (Crass, Poison Girls, Flux of Pink Indians, Conflict, Rubella Ballet, etc).
    Of course, with some differences:
    -He doesn't have a DIY culture, but quite the opposite.
    -He is certainly a nationalist.

    ... But quite often he gets VERY close to anarcho-punks ideals.

    (I know, I know... some people will think that I need to spend a season at an insane asylum, but that's how I see his political views).
     
  8. Peterb

    Peterb Well-Known Member

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    Oh My, I have not heard of those bands or know what anarcho-punks believed so you will have to help me.
    From what you say I assume these bands would have agreed that a country's culture is racially restricted, they would be anti immigration and would have liked Farage (if he'd been around at the the time). Is this the case?
     
  9. Oh my

    Oh my Enough! or Too much

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    Vegetarianism as a political ideology:


    A rejection of the Left/Right logic and a tendency to go against the politically correct trends (as Crass did with the RAR -Rock Against Racism- concerts)... and a general distrust for democracy:


    I could go on, but I don't need to write an essay.
     
  10. Peterb

    Peterb Well-Known Member

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    No, please don't write an essay.
    Don't really get the connection apart from the be kind to animals business.
     
  11. Oh my

    Oh my Enough! or Too much

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    There are several more connections, but I don't really want to go further (because it's boring).
    I was surprised by this thread in a forum that seems to be about anarcho-punk bands:
    https://www.anarcho-punk.net/threads/morrissey.3590/

    It is interesting to me that in a board devoted to anarcho-punk bands someone creates a thread about Morrissey and ALL the replies are positive.
    I can't think of any other "pop artist" who would cause the same reaction in an anarcho-punk forum... The reason is pretty obvious to me, whilst there is absolutely no musical connection, the political ideology is quite close in many different ways.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    good points. Morrissey claims he was misquoted regarding the Kevin spacey comments so at least he recognizes how the statement is problematic. You know how liberals are. if you say anything nice about Israel it is automatically assumed you hate Palestinians. you're right, he doesn't point to any specific group of people but still all the news outlets didn't hesitate to claim he supports the Israel state. nothing wrong for having compassion and empathy for a group of people whether you like Israel or not.
     
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