Morrissey and Linder

[nightandday]

Talking about who/what this or that song was inspired by, here's what Linder said in an interview (Independent on Sunday, 6/6/2004):

"Which books do you consider your guide for life ?
The Jungian women writers have an answer for every occasion. The analyst Marion Woodman has been my guide for the last 15 years. At the moment, Morrissey and I both retire to bed with the poet Marianne Moore. We may be on different sides of the Atlantic but we know what makes for a good read. With Ludus I sang, "I steal your books and you steal mine". It was, of course, about him. "

If anybody is interested, the line she mentioned is from Ludus 1981 song "Mouthpiece". It also reappers in "Herstory" (the full version from the CD reissue of The Visit/The Seduction), which is basically an unusual 8 minute track/jam session (?) that consists of the band playing 5 different songs of theirs, including "Mouthpiece".

 

[imogen11]

Have you heard any Ludus, Nightandday?? You sound like you know what you are talking about. If so, what do you think of it??

 

[nightandday]

Have you heard any Ludus, Nightandday?? You sound like you know what you are talking about. If so, what do you think of it??

I love them. I have all the CDs and mp3 stuff from original records. Oddly enough, I wasn't that impressed when I first heard Ludus - and now I can't get enough of them. I suppose it happens often when you hear a band that sounds a bit unusual.

And my avatar comes from one of their record sleeves.

I tried to start a discussion on Other Music some time ago, knowing that there are two or three fans here, but I didn't get many replies. http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=64628

 

[Worm]

If the author of the line "I just want a lover like any other" believed he was getting that in Linder he should have had his head examined.

 

[The Goat]

we[/i] get from our trouble and pain"

Oh!!!
I know the author and will have a word with him and make sure he changes it if he ever gets round to an updated version....
(and change the other mistake where stating 'Rank' was recorded at Brixton!)

The Goat

 

[nightandday]

Oh!!!
I know the author and will have a word with him and make sure he changes it if he ever gets round to an updated version....
(and change the other mistake where stating 'Rank' was recorded at Brixton!)

The Goat

That's OK, tell the author that the book is otherwise fine.

 

[Anais Pin]

According to the excellent book, 'Morrissey's Manchester' Linder lived with John McGeogh (Magazine and future Banshee, who sadly died recently) at 35 Mayfield Road, Whalley Range. She used to go out with Howard Devoto (Buzzcocks and Magazine).
I've not found anything in books that said Morrissey lived there but he certainly stayed there often.

'Jeane' was also thought to be about Linder and I heard recently that the Buzzcocks 'What do I get?' was written by Pete Shelley about her too.

The Goat

I was really sad about John McGeogh, I thought he was a really great Banshee and their best guitarist without doubt. I had no idea that he had lived with Linder though so thanks for that Mr Goat!

 

[Sunbags]

..weelll, I wouldn't say she 'denies' it, more so dodges addressing what the interviewer is implying

True, very true, he he

 

[Sunbags]

Yes, I posted it, that's why I know that she neither confirmed nor denied it.

There are two ways to answer that question: either you say "that's nonsense, we're just friends", or you dodge the answer. Although, technically, they didn't ask 'Were you lovers?' so you might say she didn't have to answer.

"You’ve worked a lot with Morrissey, there’s rumours that you’ve been lovers…"
"There’s lots of gossip. Yes, we met 30 years ago this October, it’s a long time, most friendships don’t endure that long..."

There are many ways to answer that question, my dear girl, god bless you and shave you! Couldn't she have claimed that she has always been in a ferociously passionate relationship with a goat, which began circa 1975? There is never any good reason to limit yourself (except Lent, of course).

 

[nightandday]

There are many ways to answer that question, my dear girl, god bless you and shave you! Couldn't she have claimed that she has always been in a ferociously passionate relationship with a goat, which began circa 1975? There is never any good reason to limit yourself (except Lent, of course).

What, with The Goat?? Oh, you mean with a goat... No, why should anyone limit oneself - you do know about the guy from Sudan who was in the news last month?





BTW, are you nominated in the Thread Hijacker of the Year poll?

 

[Sunbags]

What, with The Goat?? Oh, you mean with a goat... No, why should anyone limit oneself - you do know about the guy from Sudan who was in the news last month?





BTW, are you nominated in the Thread Hijacker of the Year poll?

No, I don't know about him, please tell me! And as for the 'thread hijacker', erm......check! If not, nominate me - have a bit of fun, my dear, life is more than goats and Maths, for fecks' sake.

 

[Kewpie]

LOL, you should remind me to nominate yourself next year.

 

[Sunbags]

LOL, you should remind me to nominate yourself next year.

Deary me, what is this hijacker award - an honour or an abomination of the soul? Ultimately, is it a chance to win a box of assorted biscuits, irrespective of the awards' intended purpose? You've got to help me, Kewpie, it's nearly tea-time!

 

[Kewpie]

Unfortunately I'm skint so there's no cash/chocolate for winners.
You can find out the art of Thread Hijacking from:

http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=64502

Also many threads on Off-Topic forum is the place to look out for!

 

[Sunbags]

Unfortunately I'm skint so there's no cash/chocolate for winners.
You can find out the art of Thread Hijacking from:

http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=64502

Also many threads on Off-Topic forum is the place to look out for!

Oh, I see. A lot to ponder (salivate?) over.......well, that's Saturday night covered for me, then! Thank you for the niceness and I wish you flowers. Good ones.

 

[Christine]

My ex boyfriend (lover of the obsure ) Got me into Ludus and when I listen to them I have this wonder at how they never became more popular. Funnily enough Moz sums them up nicely
"Ludus lay on us the decorative impulses of their music, and nowhere more significantly than on the volume which now lies before you. People who know real genius will love this record... Her singing leaves me out of breath... Linder went to Brussels and I remained stuck in Manchester, battling with the tides of fortune. Our shrill spirits still slide through the ugly streets of Manchester, always wet through, always caught out, always spectating, our hearts damaged by too many air-raids."
Just thinking back on another discusion, ludus were hugely influenced by Plath where as Moz was quite discouraging about her.

 

[imogen11]

My ex boyfriend (lover of the obsure ) Got me into Ludus and when I listen to them I have this wonder at how they never became more popular. Funnily enough Moz sums them up nicely
"Ludus lay on us the decorative impulses of their music, and nowhere more significantly than on the volume which now lies before you. People who know real genius will love this record... Her singing leaves me out of breath... Linder went to Brussels and I remained stuck in Manchester, battling with the tides of fortune. Our shrill spirits still slide through the ugly streets of Manchester, always wet through, always caught out, always spectating, our hearts damaged by too many air-raids."
Just thinking back on another discusion, ludus were hugely influenced by Plath where as Moz was quite discouraging about her.

Which Ludus album is Morrissey referring to there??

 

[nightandday]

No, I don't know about him, please tell me! And as for the 'thread hijacker', erm......check! If not, nominate me - have a bit of fun, my dear, life is more than goats and Maths, for fecks' sake.

I think that you deserve some sort of award, at least for Poster Who Turns the Discussion In the Most Unexpected Direction! I'm surprised that you haven't heard the story of the guy from Sudan who had to marry a goat, it was all over internet at one point, but if you want me to tell you more, I'll do it later in Official Off-topic Thread. I'd prefer to take the discussion on goat-loving to Off-topic - the place for all the siliness & in-depth political and anthropological discussions!

 

[nightandday]

My ex boyfriend (lover of the obsure ) Got me into Ludus and when I listen to them I have this wonder at how they never became more popular. Funnily enough Moz sums them up nicely
"Ludus lay on us the decorative impulses of their music, and nowhere more significantly than on the volume which now lies before you. People who know real genius will love this record... Her singing leaves me out of breath... Linder went to Brussels and I remained stuck in Manchester, battling with the tides of fortune. Our shrill spirits still slide through the ugly streets of Manchester, always wet through, always caught out, always spectating, our hearts damaged by too many air-raids."
Just thinking back on another discusion, ludus were hugely influenced by Plath where as Moz was quite discouraging about her.

Which Ludus album is Morrissey referring to there??

It's a part of his above mentioned unused sleevenote for the compilation that was supposed to be released in 1985/86, but was cancelled. That part is quoted in the sleevenotes for Ludus CD reissues, which are written by James Nice, the boss of LTM (Les Tempes Modernes), the label that specializes in reissuing obscure post-punk bands, which reissued Ludus back catalogue in 2002. Nice's sleevenotes accompany all 3 CDs, and they can also be read at LTM site as Ludus biography:

http://home.wxs.nl/~frankbri/ludushis.html

The quote from Morrissey's unused 1985 sleevenote is at the end. I've never seen the complete text of that sleevenote, just quote and the phrase mentioned by Simon Goddard in his book.

 

[nightandday]

My ex boyfriend (lover of the obsure ) Got me into Ludus and when I listen to them I have this wonder at how they never became more popular. Funnily enough Moz sums them up nicely
"Ludus lay on us the decorative impulses of their music, and nowhere more significantly than on the volume which now lies before you. People who know real genius will love this record... Her singing leaves me out of breath... Linder went to Brussels and I remained stuck in Manchester, battling with the tides of fortune. Our shrill spirits still slide through the ugly streets of Manchester, always wet through, always caught out, always spectating, our hearts damaged by too many air-raids."
Just thinking back on another discusion, ludus were hugely influenced by Plath where as Moz was quite discouraging about her.

You were lucky to have a boyfriend with such interests, I've lately discovered a lot of obscure late 70s/early 80s bands! I don't know why they never had any kind of success, they're not even that 'hard to swallow' as they are supposed to be. I suppose that for people used to standard 'mainstream indie' fare (what an oxymoron!) they sure are 'unlistenable' at first - but compared to most post-punk bands, they are not (except on "Danger Came Smiling"). Yes, rhythm and song structures are often unusual, but their songs are melodic, and her vocal is very appealing (at least when she's actually singing - OK, so many people may not respond well to the screaming, I suppose, though I love it!) I've seen them compared to post-punk bands like Delta 5 and Essential Logic, and I find them far easier to listen to. And some of the most famous post-punk bands were even less 'easy-listening': think of The Pop Group (probably the most misleading band name in the history of music! ), or even Public Image Ltd.; not to mention the New York noise bands... yet Ludus are less known than any of them.

I also find it a bit strange that Morrissey has no affinity for Sylvia Plath's poetry, which has obviously been a huge influence on Linder (I'm with her on that one, I love Plath!). Ludus are even supposed to have done a musical rendition of "Daddy". They must have played it live - I suppose it was never even recorded.