Morrissey A-Z: "I Bury the Living"

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
It is in character!

The soldier seems to be having a moment of crisis.

Then the end is actually a sort of culture shock. The family have lost that visceral connection to the war but it's still happening...

Exactly!

You'd be a great director.

Did I ever tell you that both my parents used to work in theatre? 😅
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
I think you misunderstood. I have no doubts that the criticism expressed in the song as a whole reflects Morrissey's own views. I was referring to those lines you singled out, which, as I explained above, I understood as being part of the narrative and written in character.
Even still, I wholeheartedly believe that even those lines represent Morrissey’s views - even though they might be sung in character.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
No! Fabulous! You've obviously picked up the knack. 🎭

Well, they were artistic in a more practical sense, they worked in the props department. That's how they met. But I spent many afternoons there after school listening to the rehearsal broadcast while doing my homework.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
Even still, I wholeheartedly believe that even those lines represent Morrissey’s views - even though they might be sung in character.

That's where we disagree then. I just wanted to make sure I got my point across. 🙂
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
On a lighter note -
Reminder that according to Morrissey John would never have got into this predicament if more people were gay. :lbf:

WarHeterosexualityQuote.jpeg
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Well, they were artistic in a more practical sense, they worked in the props department. That's how they met. But I spent many afternoons there after school listening to the rehearsal broadcast while doing my homework.

Props are very important! My first review was for props I made... it was Lysistrata. 😳😳😳😳

I've listened to I Bury The Living a few times again & f**k those useless critics for steering me wrong - it's actually brilliant. I'd still tweek the John bit - but it's like Full Metal Jacket or Apocalypse Now...

Starts with insects, helicopter, a battle cacophony... then you've got the soldier having his bad day - is he captured? Is he talking to the enemy? Do they have a gun to his head & he's saying he'd join them because he'd rather die in his bed?
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
Yes, outcasts are often recruited, but to say that since the soldier in question is an outcast all he is capable of is doing military service, is very very cynical.

It’s not Morrissey’s view, it’s society’s or the educational/governments viewpoint.

Sure, most soldiers don't know what the wars are really about, but that goes for most people in general. Moz, however, singles out the have-nots as being particularly unenlightened.
Call me brave, call me a peace-making hero
Call me anything except what I am
From a class without, I haven't a clue
What the war is about
I haven't got a clue, have you?
Oh no, no, no, no”


singles out, because that is the subject he’s singing about, but he does state that everyone, not just the ‘have nots’ are clueless about war in the last lines of the above section, so he’s not really singling out any particular class.

I don't know, to call someone who serves in the military cannon fodder is to me rather cruel.

It’s also the view of the military, people are trained to kill they are programmed to dehumanize other human beings, and likewise the military dehumanizes it’s own soldiers, they are no longer human beings they are weapons to be used.

If your theory is correct, I think he should have been able to articulate it with more finesse and less bile.

Cruel subjects need crueler words to describe it. Morrissey seems to be done with sugar coating these days.

I agree that it criticises the machinery of war, but in my opinion, it mostly blames the soldier.

It’s not the first time in music, through song. It’s still a brave viewpoint and it’s true.

And he's fighting for democracy, he's fighting for the reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide who's to live and who's to die
And he never sees the writing on the wall
But without him how would Hitler have condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would've stood alone

He's the one who gives his body as the weapon of the war
And without him, all this killing can't go on

He's the universal soldier and he really is to blame

His orders come from far away no more
They come from him and you and me
And brothers, can't you see
This is not the way we put an end to war?”


And I guess that that would have been fine, had he just expressed his criticism/shrouded his cruelty with wit, finesse and more nuance.

Again, It seems a conscious choice on his part to move away from the poetic style that he once was known for, and it seems over the years he’s been doing this, a way to distance himself from that person he may no longer feel he really is, more or less.
 
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Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
It’s not Morrissey’s view, it’s society’s or the educational/governments viewpoint.


“Call me brave, call me a peace-making hero
Call me anything except what I am
From a class without, I haven't a clue
What the war is about
I haven't got a clue, have you?
Oh no, no, no, no”

singles out, because that is the subject he’s singing about, but he does state that everyone, not just the ‘have nots’ are clueless about war in the last lines of the above section, so he’s not really singling out any particular class.



It’s also the view of the military, people are trained to kill they are programmed to dehumanize other human beings, and likewise the military dehumanizes it’s own soldiers, they are no longer human beings they are weapons to be used.



Cruel subjects need crueler words to describe it. Morrissey seems to be done with sugar coating these days.



It’s not the first time in music, through song. It’s still a brave viewpoint and it’s true.

“And he's fighting for democracy, he's fighting for the reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide who's to live and who's to die
And he never sees the writing on the wall
But without him how would Hitler have condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would've stood alone

He's the one who gives his body as the weapon of the war
And without him, all this killing can't go on

He's the universal soldier and he really is to blame

His orders come from far away no more
They come from him and you and me
And brothers, can't you see
This is not the way we put an end to war?”



Again, It seems a conscious choice on his part to move away from the poetic style that he once was known for, and it seems over the years he’s been doing this, a way to distance himself from that person he may no longer feel he really is, more or less.
I appreciate your views, but I already had this exact discussion. I’m all discussed out.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
:lbf: well, that’s one way to bow out.
Feels a bit pointless to repeat everything I just said, that’s all. To summarize: I disagree with everything you just said, and if you want to know the how’s and why’s, see my discussion with Girl Afraid. A very satisfying discussion and experience it was.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
Props are very important! My first review was for props I made... it was Lysistrata. 😳😳😳😳

I've listened to I Bury The Living a few times again & f**k those useless critics for steering me wrong - it's actually brilliant. I'd still tweek the John bit - but it's like Full Metal Jacket or Apocalypse Now...

Starts with insects, helicopter, a battle cacophony... then you've got the soldier having his bad day - is he captured? Is he talking to the enemy? Do they have a gun to his head & he's saying he'd join them because he'd rather die in his bed?

:thumb:

That's what it always was in my head - Morrissey's Apocalypse Now.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
Props are very important! My first review was for props I made... it was Lysistrata. 😳😳😳😳

They are important and it's also one hell of a stressful and physically challenging job. Can't recall a time when not at least one of them was complaining about back pain.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
It's obvious now.

I'm mortified.

Always happy to help 😅

I'm always afraid of over-explaining things because I'm usually clueless about general perception or knowledge. It's a curse.
 
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GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
I needed the explanation!

You saw something I completely missed.

I guess with Morrissey usually not being a "storyteller" like Nick Cave or Bowie or Kate Bush comes a certain expectation, which can be misleading.
 
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