Morrissey’s view on gender identity

[Anonymous]

Can we move on to another topic now, please? My suggestion: Morrissey's view on block paving?

I suggest you start a thread on 'Morrissey's view on block paving', which I think it limited- I don't think hes expressed any views on that particular subject. this thread is titled Morrisseys view on gender identity, so thats what people are trying to discuss here, maybe at no end

 

[gashonthenail]

Or maybe he’s just saying - I identify with that level of body, mind, and soul wholeness and joy it brings me.

That doesn't sound very Morrissey!
I think he was saying he closely identifies with people who feel like this. Or certainly he did when he was younger.

 

[Orange Crush]

I suggest you start a thread on 'Morrissey's view on block paving', which I think it limited- I don't think hes expressed any views on that particular subject. this thread is titled Morrisseys view on gender identity, so thats what people are trying to discuss here, maybe at no end

I suggest you try and crack a smile. It was meant as nothing more than a joke. This particular thread - Moz's take on gender identity - has ended up being posters' views on gender identity, and not Moz's, and is growing tiresome. "Maybe at no end"? Oh, please! I think this topic is entering its second decade now, or it seems that way.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

That doesn't sound very Morrissey!
I think he was saying he closely identifies with people who feel like this. Or certainly he did when he was younger.

I don’t believe people transition to be unhappy.

‘Candy says, "I've come to hate my body
And all that it requires in this world"

My interpretation is that she’s not happy with the assigned male body that she is now there dealing with, a body that she wishes that she can just easily walk away from.

Is it so difficult to translate “I've always felt closer to transexuality than anything else.”

as a desire to move closer to a preferred state of physical and mental being, in order to be happy?
Or do you see all trans persons as depressed/sex criminals?

 

[gashonthenail]

I don’t believe people transition to be unhappy.

‘Candy says, "I've come to hate my body
And all that it requires in this world"

My interpretation is that she’s not happy with the assigned male body that she is now there dealing with, a body that she wishes that she can just easily walk away from.

Is it so difficult to translate “I've always felt closer to transexuality than anything else.”

as a desire to move closer to an preferred state of physical and mental being, in order to be happy?
Or do you see all trans persons as depressed/sex criminals?

To be transexual is to be unhappy in your own body. He was saying he closely relates to that deep sense of being unhappy in your own skin. Haven't we all felt that way at some time? Even passingly? But Moz was suggesting he feels that way pretty much all the time.
No, I don't think he was saying it in a hopeful way at all.

 

[Malarkey]

From the Vegan Logic interview:

I read your wonderful interview with Linder Sterling and now want to ask the same question you asked her: “If you inhabited a female body, how would your work differ?” For example, would you pull off your shirt on stage?

Even quicker than I do now.

 

[goinghome]

From the Vegan Logic interview:

I read your wonderful interview with Linder Sterling and now want to ask the same question you asked her: “If you inhabited a female body, how would your work differ?” For example, would you pull off your shirt on stage?

Even quicker than I do now.

That's him being 'ready with ready-wit'!

But the microscope reveals complexity in chromosome construction. There are more combinations than just XX-XY. That’s also just a fact. When people talk about “identifying” as something other than male or female, they are speaking about more than just emotions or preferences, it’s about genetic structure. Whether the house has indoor plumbing or outdoor plumbing, or both, has nothing to do with the engineering inside the home...

The faster we can reshape our society to let people pee in peace (and by pee, I mean all facets of life, in case the metaphor wasn’t plain), the healthier and safer we will all be. Happy, informed, self-actualizing people are better for the economy, if that’s the only reason we need.

From https://www.albernivalleynews.com/opinion/editorial-mind-your-own-xxs-and-xys-4563206

Thanks for thought-provoking and often illuminating discussion, and hope no feelings were irredeemably hurt : )

 

[Malarkey]

That's him being 'ready with ready-wit'!



From https://www.albernivalleynews.com/opinion/editorial-mind-your-own-xxs-and-xys-4563206

Thanks for thought-provoking and often illuminating discussion, and hope no feelings were irredeemably hurt : )

It's a joke - but it's also in line with everything else he says about gender.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

To be transexual is to be unhappy in your own body.

always?

He was saying he closely relates to that deep sense of being unhappy in your own skin.

Was he?

Or is that how you’re translating “I've always felt closer to transexuality than anything else.” ?

I think a trans person would most likely be happier being who they want to be, that seems the point in wanting to transition.

So I guess that’s a ‘yes’ you do see all trans persons as depressed.

Haven't we all felt that way at some time? Even passingly? But Moz was suggesting he feels that way pretty much all the time.
No, I don't think he was saying it in a hopeful way at all.

 

[gashonthenail]

Was he?

Or is that how you’re translating “I've always felt closer to transexuality than anything else.” ?

I think a trans person would most likely be happier being who they want to be, that seems the point in wanting to transition.

So I guess that’s a ‘yes’ you do see all trans persons as depressed.

If you read the interview with Paul Morley, it's all about depression. Quite deeply so at times.
Yes, it's my take on what he said. And you are suggesting a different take. It is poor journalism that Morley didn't say to him, what do you mean by that?
It is a rather striking thing to say. And it's also a bit of a non-sequitur - as Morley had just asked him about his sexuality. Being transexual is nothing to do with who you're attracted to.
Was it just Moz's way of avoiding the question?
The interview also contains a moment of pure Morrissey:
You can look into a mirror and wonder - where have I seen that person before? And then you remember. It was at a neighbour's funeral. And it was the corpse.
No, I don't think that all trans people are depressed. But again, 'trans' is a vague and imprecise term. The issue I suppose here is the jargon term of 'gender congruence'. Someone who perceives a sense of significant 'gender incongruence' we can assume is not feeling happy. That tends to lead to a diagnosis of 'gender dysphoria'.

 

[Malarkey]

Morrissey does see gender & sexuality as linked - because his gender & sexuality didn't matter until puberty when he started to feel differently & be treated differently from his peers.

 

[CNC]

Being transexual is nothing to do with who you're attracted to.

I agree with this. I think it automatically makes sexuality and relationships more complex and blurred for someone if they are transsexual and that makes it difficult. It has nothing to do with the strength or realness of their feelings or attraction towards another person...

 

[gashonthenail]

Morrissey does see gender & sexuality as linked - because his gender & sexuality didn't matter until puberty when he started to feel differently & be treated differently from his peers.

I said that transexuality is nothing to do with sexual orientation.
The fact that Moz says he feels 'closer' to transexuality in the interview when asked about sexuality, suggests to me he was saying something like - I feel like an alien trapped in the body of a human being.

 

[Malarkey]

I said that transexuality is nothing to do with sexual orientation.
The fact that Moz says he feels 'closer' to transexuality in the interview when asked about sexuality, suggests to me he was saying something like - I feel like an alien trapped in the body of a human being.

No, it's because he didn't identify with being a man. He also had issues with his body. And was also attracted to men.

He had a lot to work out.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

If you read the interview with Paul Morley, it's all about depression. Quite deeply so at times.

Yes, he’s serious at times.

Yes, it's my take on what he said. And you are suggesting a different take. It is poor journalism that Morley didn't say to him, what do you mean by that?
It is a rather striking thing to say. And it's also a bit of a non-sequitur - as Morley had just asked him about his sexuality. Being transexual is nothing to do with who you're attracted to.
Was it just Moz's way of avoiding the question?
The interview also contains a moment of pure Morrissey:
You can look into a mirror and wonder - where have I seen that person before? And then you remember. It was at a neighbour's funeral. And it was the corpse.
No, I don't think that all trans people are depressed. But again, 'trans' is a vague and imprecise term. The issue I suppose here is the jargon term of 'gender congruence'. Someone who perceives a sense of significant 'gender incongruence' we can assume is not feeling happy. That tends to lead to a diagnosis of 'gender dysphoria'.

I get you. Yes he could identify with the depression caused by not wanting to be in a male body, or identify with all that goes with that label. But he can also be identifying with the desire to be a woman, or at least not a man, which in turn would bring comfort, or some peace of mind.

 

[Anonymous]

‘Only If You Are Really Interested’: Celebrity, Gender, Desire and the World of Morrissey. By Nicholas P. Greco. Jefferson ​

Published online by Cambridge University Press: 06 February 2013

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...olic&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=bookmark

 

[Anonymous]

Hes a celebrity, celebrities are there to be projected upon. His music is there for people to listen and project their ideals and read their life off on

 

[goinghome]

I am not sure how I ended up on this thread, but parts of it are interesting.

I like your link to the original comment about the recent blockbluster 'Barbie' and the masquerade, I have not watched the film, I did notice it was almost paired with the film 'Oppenheimer'. Which I find ironic. I often wonder weither, as time goes on if we are copying and immitating what we see on the screen, and re-living it in real life, then we film it on our phones or in the films, and the cycle continues. A big difference today is that we can look, watch and listen and read back at the past in endless different ways and copy it, think about it and almost re-live it.

I do wonder if we are all thinking from the original source today, or if people are recycling and completely turning over or inside out (metaphorically).

There's a discussion along these lines on the thread Boycott Hollywood. Oscar Wilde said, Life imitates Art far more than Art imitates Life. It probably happens a lot more than is presumed.

Edward Bernays. Freud's nephew, and nephew-in-law, the extremely influential New York-based social engineering expert, explained in this documentary that to persuade people who don't like bacon to eat it, you just hire 4,000 doctors to go public and convince citizens they must partake, for health reasons, which is how the American fried bacon and egg breakfast was instituted -

His advertising and public relations advice seduced many people into smoking cigarettes as acts of freedom, and again, of health, using plenty of doctors' promotional publicity. He wrote books titled (and in favour of) Propaganda, Crystallising Public Opinion and The Engineering of Consent. The idea was to turn people into better consumers by finding ways to instill new desires in them without raising suspicious those desires were being externally implanted and manipulated.

This essay comes at such meddling from a different angle. The more fearful and confused subjects are, the better, because self-doubt is the easiest way in. Doctors differ and patients die (bi?), as the saying goes. Thank you, drop dead.

One last thing about the Barbie film, is that even though it doesn't offer radical solutions, it does urge something that GashontheNail has been advocating, which is the value of the option of safe separate sex spaces. For now anyway