Morrissey’s Penguin Classic

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Is it worth it purchasing this book? And, yes I know that it has a notoriously bad reputation.
 
David and Maureen ? please :rolleyes:


Nah, it’s gotta be either Patti or ….

Stevie Smith.


Obviously that’s where Morrissey got the band name from.

Yeah, let’s go with that.
There is no definitive answer. M somewhere read "the Smiths" in print - and it appealed. Probably was the book about the Moors Murderers. Mike Joyce told a friend.
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
This was in the days when court-cases & royalties were a million miles away.
even then.
The Smiths were always friendly & courteous with their fans.
I guess, I hope so, I assume they were or might be(?) sure.
They were just happy & proud to be central to something so precious.
As they should. Though Marr, guess he had his reasons, didn’t think The Smiths so precious eventually.


Anyway, I’ll let Mike have his ideas of where the bands name comes from as we all should be allowed to have our ideas and theories of where the name came from, as if it had to be one source and not many in the first place.
 
Don't forget Marr was still very young, to be effectively "managing" what were arguably the biggest indie band in the world at the time. History may (or may not) record all the intricacies involved.

I met M a few times, mainly due to working in Wimpole Street which was just around the corner from his Regents Park abode. He was impossibly handsome, charming & witty (slightly smug). Around this time (Southpaw) he did speak very affectionately of his time in The Smiths and particularly JM.
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
Don't forget Marr was still very young, to be effectively "managing"
Yes I already acknowledged that in my post, and we know all this already, so how could I forget.
what were arguably the biggest indie band in the world at the time.
Yes and he threw it all away.
History may (or may not) record all the intricacies involved.

.

As I said in my post …..


‘Though Marr, guess he had his reasons, didn’t think The Smiths so precious eventually.’


Though, I’m not blaming him, just pointing out the facts.
 
It's an undisputed fact Marr pulled the plug. Some have contested that if he had been allowed to take a few months break (involving side-projects) then the band could have merrily carried on. Bit like a strained relationship, I guess. The Smiths were very prolific during their relatively short journey. For me, they were of their time & place and the legacy will shine long after we have all departed this planet. It was a neat & timely death. Writing a eulogy of The Smiths, Simon Reynolds succinctly commented : "Who wants to grow up? Who wants to go back?" Quite.
 

Dirk Blaggard

Well-Known Member
Is it worth it purchasing this book? And, yes I know that it has a notoriously bad reputation.
Yes, the first third is fantastic- its a shame he didn't stop when Johnny knocked at the door.
Then done another one about the Smiths , then another about solo years, part one. , solo years part two
It would have meant the first book would have been a drop-dead classic. Then rest would have been eccentric
However, all in one, it became bloated , sprawling and by the end an empty journey
That first third, though, is superb
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
Yes, the first third is fantastic- its a shame he didn't stop when Johnny knocked at the door.
Then done another one about the Smiths , then another about solo years, part one. , solo years part two
It would have meant the first book would have been a drop-dead classic. Then rest would have been eccentric
However, all in one, it became bloated , sprawling and by the end an empty journey
That first third, though, is superb

@BookishBoy also.

I believe the OP (now deleted member) is asking about LOTL.
 

Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
There is no definitive answer. M somewhere read "the Smiths" in print - and it appealed. Probably was the book about the Moors Murderers. Mike Joyce told a friend.
That does make sense, if there was any hero in this gruesome story, it was David Smith, who reported Hindley and Brady to the police the first chance he got. I am not saying Morrissey saw him that way, but maybe he did recognize Smith stopped the killings.
 

Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
It's an undisputed fact Marr pulled the plug. Some have contested that if he had been allowed to take a few months break (involving side-projects) then the band could have merrily carried on. Bit like a strained relationship, I guess. The Smiths were very prolific during their relatively short journey. For me, they were of their time & place and the legacy will shine long after we have all departed this planet. It was a neat & timely death. Writing a eulogy of The Smiths, Simon Reynolds succinctly commented : "Who wants to grow up? Who wants to go back?" Quite.
Marr himself said if things were handled differently, they could have carried on. I don't believe him tho, it just seems like a way to blame everyone else. I never wanted a reunion, I think it ended when it should have.
 

Eldritch

Well-Known Member
There's also the difference that Marr has stated several times, that he thinks The Smiths had one more album in them. Whereas I think Morrissey would have wanted the band to go on indefinitely, being the creature of habit he is. Marr escaping the studio started the whole endgame, but Morrissey & co did themselves no favours with that press release in which they said that The Smiths would go on with another guitarist. In my estimation that was ultimately the final nail in the band's coffin. If they all had met after Marr's holiday without doing anything rash, they might very well recorded that one last album. After which Marr would probably have been out anyway.
 
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Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
Didn't Geoff Travis put out that press release?
Marr walked out, it was up to him to come back if he wanted to, instead he confirmed to NME that he had left (while again accusing Morrissey of something he did not do and refusing to take responsibility for himself), while being contractually bound to promote Strangeways and make another record.
Luckily for everyone, that other record became Morrissey's first solo record🔥
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
The band name being linked to David and Maureen Smith makes sense - Moz had only recently read Beyond Belief at that time, Suffer Little Children was one of the first songs, it's a case he has written and talked about a fair bit. I wouldn't blame M if he decided to conceal that a bit once the band got famous - particularly after the stick he got for 'Suffer...' and the fact that the second Moors investigation began in 1986. Chrissie Hynde formed a band called 'The Moors Murderers' once and they were beaten up in the street.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
That does make sense, if there was any hero in this gruesome story, it was David Smith, who reported Hindley and Brady to the police the first chance he got. I am not saying Morrissey saw him that way, but maybe he did recognize Smith stopped the killings.
David Smith was hated, beaten up, hounded out of jobs etc for decades due to the lies that Brady and Hindley spun at their trial.

Brady wanted to smear Smith as an accomplice and co-conspirator (with him) in the hope that Hindley would then look innocent and go free - and as a result of that bullshit, a lot of people believed that David 'got away with it' or was 'the third Moors murderer' etc. Even some of the victim's families believed this stuff. So, he was a hero (in reality) but he wasn't seen that way for a long time. Thankfully the confessions of B & H exonerated him in the mid-80s.
 

Redacted

I think I must be, absolutely, a total sex object.
Stranger and stranger...... went back to read about Hindley and Brady. Hindley took Veronica as her confirmation name. Coincidence?
 
The band name being linked to David and Maureen Smith makes sense - Moz had only recently read Beyond Belief at that time, Suffer Little Children was one of the first songs, it's a case he has written and talked about a fair bit. I wouldn't blame M if he decided to conceal that a bit once the band got famous - particularly after the stick he got for 'Suffer...' and the fact that the second Moors investigation began in 1986. Chrissie Hynde formed a band called 'The Moors Murderers' once and they were beaten up in the street.
Given M was so entrenched in all things 60s, this narrative is more than plausible . The lyric "Manchester so much to answer for" always struck me as being pivotal to the aesthetics of the band. Steve Strange was a central component of 'The Moors Murderers.' Not sure if it was ever released, but the song 'Free Hindley' was a moronic attempt at controversy for its own sake.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
Stranger and stranger...... went back to read about Hindley and Brady. Hindley took Veronica as her confirmation name. Coincidence?
Probably.
IMO this is the best book about the case - not easy to get hold of now but extremely well-researched.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
Given M was so entrenched in all things 60s, this narrative is more than plausible . The lyric "Manchester so much to answer for" always struck me as being pivotal to the aesthetics of the band. Steve Strange was a central component of 'The Moors Murderers.' Not sure if it was ever released, but the song 'Free Hindley' was a moronic attempt at controversy for its own sake.
Yeah, agreed. Sonic Youth based the 'Goo' album cover on a photo of David and Maureen, too.

c8c752f4517a976d91b32d2988a4b76e.jpg
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
yeah, maybe it was based on that photo, looks close, it could just be coincidence though.
It's unmistakably based on the photo. No coincidence there - unless you're suggesting that Sonic Youth just thought it was a cool photo and they didn't know it was from the Moors trial?

link here

"His much-parodied, hand-drawn cover artwork is based on a newspaper photograph of Maureen Hindley and David Smith, key witnesses in the 1966 Moors Murders trial involving serial killers Myra Hindley and Ian Brady, with the stark black and white drawing accompanied by darkly mysterious comic-book style dialogue."
 
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