Morrissey’s Penguin Classic

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Is it worth it purchasing this book? And, yes I know that it has a notoriously bad reputation.
 
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Writing a novel is a different discipline than either lyrics or an autobiography. With fiction you need to create believeably characters, come up with an intreresting story etc. I still think this was an honest attempt to write a 'classic' novel, not a troll move. The trouble is it's Morrissey's first attempt, and like all first attempts, it should never have seen the light of day. This is the equivalent of his early lyrics like 'I'm Ready for the Electric Chair' or whatever. If he was serious about wanting to become a novelist, he should have written 5 or 6 novels in secret - had feedback from an editor so he could learn his craft, and got better each time, before unleashing 'List of the Lost' to the world.
Do you actually want this book to be Morrissey’s attempt at being a serious author?
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
The trouble is it's Morrissey's first attempt, and like all first attempts, it should never have seen the light of day. This is the equivalent of his early lyrics like 'I'm Ready for the Electric Chair' or whatever.

Maybe We’re Not Ready For List Of The Lost.


 

Dirk Blaggard

Well-Known Member
Writing a novel is a different discipline than either lyrics or an autobiography. With fiction you need to create believeably characters, come up with an intreresting story etc. I still think this was an honest attempt to write a 'classic' novel, not a troll move. The trouble is it's Morrissey's first attempt, and like all first attempts, it should never have seen the light of day. This is the equivalent of his early lyrics like 'I'm Ready for the Electric Chair' or whatever. If he was serious about wanting to become a novelist, he should have written 5 or 6 novels in secret - had feedback from an editor so he could learn his craft, and got better each time, before unleashing 'List of the Lost' to the world.
Quite its like saying if you are good at the 100 meters sprint, you should be good at long distance running " well , its running right?"
Two different things .
Also, M wasn't even taken seriously as a poet (though i love his words) , not in actual poetry circles
Becuase his voice and delivery made up for the short fall. With M, its about material, I think. Im not sure his heart was that into this little novel, just like Im not sure his spirit is that moved by some backing tracks on his songs.

Once he has the right stuff, like his childhood in Auto or the music of Marr or Street etc, then it moved him for magic

That said , I can see why people hated this book, I liked it for what it was. A nice little book
 
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Quite its like saying if you are good at the 100 meters sprint, you should be good at long distance running " well , its running right?"
Two different things .
Also, M wasn't even taken seriously as a poet (though i love his words) , not in actual poetry circles
Becuase his voice and delivery made up for the short fall. With M, its about material, I think. Im not sure his heart was that into this little novel, just like Im not sure his spirit is that moved by some backing tracks on his songs.

Once he has the right stuff, like his childhood in Auto or the music of Marr or Street etc, then it moved him for magic

That said , I can see why people hated this book, I liked it for what it was. A nice little book
If you feel that his heart might not have been into it…

How is that not different than “going through the motions”? Which, as far as I’m concerned, that there’s a good chance he wasn’t taking the novel seriously, to begin with.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
I have mixed feelings about his Autobiography😔 This Is likely either a controversial or unpopular opinion… I would imagine?

Considering how you stated emphatically that you believe it to be a masterpiece.
Well, each to their own - the court case stuff does drag on for far too long and I would have liked to hear far more about the songwriting process and experience of being in The Smiths (beyond griping about how evil Geoff Travis was etc). He does spend page after page, 'settling scores'... but the bits I like, I really like, and it was so "Morrissey" that I felt it was everything I'd hoped for, as a fan. It's just wonderfully and vividly written, and you sense the emotions coming off the page. The reproductions of the letters, the way he recalled conversations, the rawness of some sections - you could sense how serious he was about the book and it probably took him years to write. I liked Johnny's book too but it had the opposite problem - lots of key issues 'glossed over' to a point where it sounds almost insincere. Y'know, "The music's great, I've got a great wife, I've got loads of mates, it's all great" - and nothing, really, about the 'darker' things like his drinking, feeling insecure after the split, Boomslang failing - he just whitewashed it, didn't want to go there. So both books have their weaknesses, but I'm glad that we have them.
 
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Harsh Truth

Ever Felt Had?
It's not big money. If you want it, get it. If you don't, don't. You're not buying a car here. $10 or less. As a fan, you may just want it whether or not it's complete garbage (it is..... I know because I bought it and read it.)
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
Yes, I know that.
It’s not a matter of paying $10 for a book…
It’s the matter of wanting to read a book of substance… which this book isn’t.

And I’ve already spent enough money on Morrissey.

I feel he isn’t entitled to it anymore🙂

I took a second job, all that goes straight to Morrissey’s account.

I thought everyone does this? :oops:
 
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I took a second job, all that goes straight to Morrissey’s account.

I thought everyone does this? :oops:
Are you being serious? Or is this sarcasm?

Either way, you seem quite loyal to the man, even under these tumultuous times for him.
 
A

Anonymous

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With M, its about material, I think. Im not sure his heart was that into this little novel, just like Im not sure his spirit is that moved by some backing tracks on his songs.

Once he has the right stuff, like his childhood in Auto or the music of Marr or Street etc, then it moved him for magic
This might be just me, but I felt one similarity in both 'Autobiography' and 'List of the Lost' was that they started strongly, then tailed off. The decline in quality isn't so drastic (or fast) in 'Autobiography' but it's still there. The childhood stuff was by far the best written material - by the time we get to the Smiths it's mostly just score-settling, and the latter third is just rambling tour anecdotes. I kind of feel like he lost enthusiasm with both books after a while (or at least, the spark was gone), but ploughed through to the finish line regardless.
 

Dirk Blaggard

Well-Known Member
If you feel that his heart might not have been into it…

How is that not different than “going through the motions”? Which, as far as I’m concerned, that there’s a good chance he wasn’t taking the novel seriously, to begin w

If you feel that his heart might not have been into it…

How is that not different than “going through the motions”? Which, as far as I’m concerned, that there’s a good chance he wasn’t taking the novel seriously, to begin with.No the

If you feel that his heart might not have been into it…

How is that not different than “going through the motions”? Which, as far as I’m concerned, that there’s a good chance he wasn’t taking the novel seriously, to begin with.
Well, of course there is a difference between, someones heart not being into something as much as in another venture and "going through the motions"
M has most def , been guilty of "phoming it in " at times and going through the motions -lots of his gigs have been, less that geat at times

But I wasn't talking about that.
I was just talking about his heart maybe not being into the venture, as much as it could have been
Another example, look at the quality of "b sides" from ROTT onwards, compared , to his 90s b sides.
You can see he was more into the whole process in the 90s . He seems to have not been quite as into it by late 2000's
Though that doesn't mean he was going through the motions.
Going through the motions, is like when he doesn't really want to do a gig and just , gets in and out or if he is being lazy - like sone of his LA gigs.
 
D

Deleted member 30764

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Well, of course there is a difference between, someones heart not being into something as much as in another venture and "going through the motions"
M has most def , been guilty of "phoming it in " at times and going through the motions -lots of his gigs have been, less that geat at times

But I wasn't talking about that.
I was just talking about his heart maybe not being into the venture, as much as it could have been
Another example, look at the quality of "b sides" from ROTT onwards, compared , to his 90s b sides.
You can see he was more into the whole process in the 90s . He seems to have not been quite as into it by late 2000's
Though that doesn't mean he was going through the motions.
Going through the motions, is like when he doesn't really want to do a gig and just , gets in and out or if he is being lazy - like sone of his LA gigs.
Well, of course there is a difference between, someones heart not being into something as much as in another venture and "going through the motions"
M has most def , been guilty of "phoming it in " at times and going through the motions -lots of his gigs have been, less that geat at times

But I wasn't talking about that.
I was just talking about his heart maybe not being into the venture, as much as it could have been
Another example, look at the quality of "b sides" from ROTT onwards, compared , to his 90s b sides.
You can see he was more into the whole process in the 90s . He seems to have not been quite as into it by late 2000's
Though that doesn't mean he was going through the motions.
Going through the motions, is like when he doesn't really want to do a gig and just , gets in and out or if he is being lazy - like sone of his LA gigs.
Could his “phoning it in” with his LA gigs have to do with him figuring he’s infallible for his fans there and he can do no wrong in their eyes? Or at least, that use to be case. I know the Mexican- American fan base is also the strongest there.
 

Dirk Blaggard

Well-Known Member
This might be just me, but I felt one similarity in both 'Autobiography' and 'List of the Lost' was that they started strongly, then tailed off. The decline in quality isn't so drastic (or fast) in 'Autobiography' but it's still there. The childhood stuff was by far the best written material - by the time we get to the Smiths it's mostly just score-settling, and the latter third is just rambling tour anecdotes. I kind of feel like he lost enthusiasm with both books after a while (or at least, the spark was gone), but ploughed through to the finish line regardless.
Yes, I agree
Though I didn't conenct the two books.

I thought Auto was more to do with subject matter, and it kind of mirrored his career/life - so I didn't know if it was meant or not- The start was rich and had depth, packed with menaing and poetry. He was the spoil of the soil he was raised in and everything rippled with life and art
I thought he should have stopped the book when he joined Smiths. If he would gave done that, it would have been one of my fave books of all time. - I wouldn't be suprised if Brett Anderson thought the same thing, which is why in his own first book, he stopped the moment he joined Suede.

The middle was ocd and in and out , quality wise . The end was a shalllow mess, where he was trying to event menaing where there was none, and his life was his own fan fiction - so his band became the best in the world, when they weren't even the best in Whitechapple, his fans were all ready to roll 1950s looking gang bangers, rather than overweight latinos who eat chicken legs while the band plays Meat Is Murder at the Hollowood Bowl, mixed with a mix of indie fans and n air of Barry Manilow
(as a side note, it makes me laugh when his super fans quote the book , as if just 'cause M said it that means its true...When anyone who knows of M, knows he is a remarkble fibber, at times. As for his "homosexual relationship", well.... Pinch of salt)

With List Of The Lost, I got the impression, he kind of got bored.

Again I enjoyed both books. I am not not hating on M. I love his voice and I like his way with words, he is a certain ilk of Englhman which I relate to. Hes brilliant, not everything he does is brilliant though
 

Dirk Blaggard

Well-Known Member
Could his “phoning it in” with his LA gigs have to do with him figuring he’s infallible for his fans there and he can do no wrong in their eyes? Or at least, that use to be case. I know the Mexican- American fan base is also the strongest there.
Its everything to do with that, he does the odd good show here and there but hes lazy .
HIs latino fan base is not as strong as people make out
Its like his whole "M lives in LA" BS, yes he had a home there he likes LA, but lots of that was to do with the court case, tax and myth making, he spent most of his time in the UK during his "LA years"

The reality of it is, the latinos yes, some like M, like some white people like M and some black people like M . Latinos make up a high perscentage of socal, so it follows he would have a fan bthere.
The actual fact is, lots of that is due to the fact they love the 80s there and M is part of that. The Cure and D mode are also part of that and lets just say if The Cure and D mode were on Cruel World, M would be third on the bill.
In the 90s he sold out the Hollywood bowl in record time ONCE. That was a one of time ago. Your average latino, is into hip hop and the most of the indie fans prefer Robert Smith and Dave G and even Oasis and Liam and noel G to M

I say that as an objective truth, D mode sold out a whole month at the Hollwood bowl, or something like a month.
M can't barely sell out two nights.
Im not keen on the Cure or D Mode , but those are the facts . This whole Moz Angeles and Viva Moz Vegas is advertising
 
D

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Yes, I agree
Though I didn't conenct the two books.

I thought Auto was more to do with subject matter, and it kind of mirrored his career/life - so I didn't know if it was meant or not- The start was rich and had depth, packed with menaing and poetry. He was the spoil of the soil he was raised in and everything rippled with life and art
I thought he should have stopped the book when he joined Smiths. If he would gave done that, it would have been one of my fave books of all time. - I wouldn't be suprised if Brett Anderson thought the same thing, which is why in his own first book, he stopped the moment he joined Suede.

The middle was ocd and in and out , quality wise . The end was a shalllow mess, where he was trying to event menaing where there was none, and his life was his own fan fiction - so his band became the best in the world, when they weren't even the best in Whitechapple, his fans were all ready to roll 1950s looking gang bangers, rather than overweight latinos who eat chicken legs while the band plays Meat Is Murder at the Hollowood Bowl, mixed with a mix of indie fans and n air of Barry Manilow
(as a side note, it makes me laugh when his super fans quote the book , as if just 'cause M said it that means its true...When anyone who knows of M, knows he is a remarkble fibber, at times. As for his "homosexual relationship", well.... Pinch of salt)

With List Of The Lost, I got the impression, he kind of got bored.

Again I enjoyed both books. I am not not hating on M. I love his voice and I like his way with words, he is a certain ilk of Englhman which I relate to. Hes brilliant, not everything he does is brilliant though

I definitely don’t believe everything he says. I can’t take a lot of what he says seriously or literally, to begin with.

I have caught too many contradictions. Very truthfully, nothing would shock me at this point. I think many of his fans act like all his statements over the years are equivalent of the“Gospels of Morrissey”….which I believe he has emboldened much of their thinking about him, in the first place—he is responsible for creating that.
I’m not sycophantic toward him, however, I would never behave consumed with rage about him like some of the anti- Morrissey trolls that frequent this forum do.

I still mostly have fondness for him. I think anyway.
 
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Redacted

⭐Fan Favorite⭐
Writing a novel is a different discipline than either lyrics or an autobiography. With fiction you need to create believeably characters, come up with an intreresting story etc. I still think this was an honest attempt to write a 'classic' novel, not a troll move. The trouble is it's Morrissey's first attempt, and like all first attempts, it should never have seen the light of day. This is the equivalent of his early lyrics like 'I'm Ready for the Electric Chair' or whatever. If he was serious about wanting to become a novelist, he should have written 5 or 6 novels in secret - had feedback from an editor so he could learn his craft, and got better each time, before unleashing 'List of the Lost' to the world.
I have taken creative writing classes before, so I agree, it's not easy. He did not have an editor on this, which probably would have helped a lot.
 
J

j*e*t

Guest
I started to read the novel again yesterday, and got about halfway through before putting it away again. Too depressing on a lovely Spring day!
 
D

Deleted member 30764

Guest
I started to read the novel again yesterday, and got about halfway through before putting it away again. Too depressing on a lovely Spring day!

I’m still trying to figure out why they’re a relay team from Boston?
 
D

Deleted member 30764

Guest
Its everything to do with that, he does the odd good show here and there but hes lazy .
HIs latino fan base is not as strong as people make out
Its like his whole "M lives in LA" BS, yes he had a home there he likes LA, but lots of that was to do with the court case, tax and myth making, he spent most of his time in the UK during his "LA years"

The reality of it is, the latinos yes, some like M, like some white people like M and some black people like M . Latinos make up a high perscentage of socal, so it follows he would have a fan bthere.
The actual fact is, lots of that is due to the fact they love the 80s there and M is part of that. The Cure and D mode are also part of that and lets just say if The Cure and D mode were on Cruel World, M would be third on the bill.
In the 90s he sold out the Hollywood bowl in record time ONCE. That was a one of time ago. Your average latino, is into hip hop and the most of the indie fans prefer Robert Smith and Dave G and even Oasis and Liam and noel G to M

I say that as an objective truth, D mode sold out a whole month at the Hollwood bowl, or something like a month.
M can't barely sell out two nights.
Im not keen on the Cure or D Mode , but those are the facts . This whole Moz Angeles and Viva Moz Vegas is advertising

Is Morrissey really as big as they say he is in Latin America? I know he has toured there frequently, but it seems almost like an exaggeration of his importance and influence there.

They certainly want to push the narrative of honorary Los Angeleno for him.
And possibly even a honorary Latino/ Mexican, despite him obviously being so proudly British … even if he’s critical of his own country of birth.
 
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