Moors Murderer Ian Brady dies aged 79

News posted by an anonymous person (original post):

Moors Murderer Ian Brady dies aged 79 - The Telegraph
Ian Brady, one of Britain’s most notorious serial killers, has died aged 79.

Brady, who along with accomplice Myra Hindley, murdered five children in the 1960s, had been suffering from a lung and chest condition and died at the Ashworth High Security Hospital on Merseyside.

But even in death, Brady continued to cause anguish, taking the secret of where he had buried the last of his victims, Keith Bennett, to the grave with him.

Also:
Moors Murderer Ian Brady dies - BBC News
Moors Murderer Ian Brady, who killed five children with Myra Hindley, has died aged 79.
 
H

Herpes Harmonica

Guest
Despite having watched the film about this or documentary, cannot remember which it was now, I cannot remember what his upbringing was like. All I remember that nothing in his life and the way he acted made any sense at all.
 
H

Herpes Harmonica

Guest
Well I don't think we disagree on the last part.

Suffer Little Children was highly controversial at the time if I remember correctly, and the tabloids had fun with it for a couple of days. It is undoubtedly a powerful song, yet never mentions Brady once, concerning itself with the victims and Hindley.

Listening to it again just now I don't get the sense that it was written to court controversy, but as an honest appraisal of the dreadful events and how Morrissey felt about the impact it had on him personally and the city of Manchester itself.

I've been to a few moors in my time, including Bodmin, Dartmoor and Saddleworth. All three are grim and rather disconcerting places, but only Saddleworth chills the blood.

(I stayed on Bodmin Moor in a remote cottage one New Year's Eve many years ago. At about two in the morning with the celebrations dying down I told my host that as it was so hot in the house I was going to go for a walk. "Stay off the moor" she said in finest Sherlock Holmes tradition. I did stay off the moor. I stayed in the garden.)

There were efforts in the late seventies and eighties to in someway rehabilitate Hindley in the eyes of the public, with a view to possible release. Lord Longford was the main instigator of those efforts, and fortunately he failed.

It is thought in some quarters that Brady never quite faced the same level of public hatred as Hindley, so shocking was it to the populace that a woman could be in some way involved in such heinous crimes.
Many locals and people related to the victims condemned the song but I think many did so without having listened to it.

I have seen the headlines.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
No.
May we not ever forget that horrific thing.
I know it is a depressing thought but the most horrific thing is, it can happen again.

Everybody knows many horrific things happen in our world but the things done to children is the most evil and never to be really understood, motivewise, cause children in essence are completely innocent and naive and we need to protect them and I don't know how without damaging their innocence and naivety.

That was what the song was all about in the first place.
And the line: Manchester, so much to answer for, was a cry for taking responsibility as a human society.

Cause people tend to look away cause it is so emotional and complicated and they have their own lives to worrie about.
I don't exactly blame them, but it happened. We should have the bravery to not look away but stare the evil in the eye.

You raise an interesting point. The murder of Jamie Bulger in Liverpool in the early 90s is a very good example of people looking the other way. The child, three years old at the time of his death, was led through the city centre screaming by two boys - his killers - of around 10 years old.

Adults who saw the three together assumed they were brothers and did not stop to ask what was going on. Had they done so Jamie Bulger would almost certainly still be alive today.
 
H

Herpes Harmonica

Guest
You raise an interesting point. The murder of Jamie Bulger in Liverpool in the early 90s is a very good example of people looking the other way. The child, three years old at the time of his death, was led through the city centre screaming by two boys - his killers - of around 10 years old.

Adults who saw the three together assumed they were brothers and did not stop to ask what was going on. Had they done so Jamie Bulger would almost certainly still be alive today.
Yeah, people used to look after each other. People used to watch over other peoples kids and that. I happened to walk past a fire the other day apparently caused by a little boy who looked more than guilty. Gave the police the description and then talked to the headmaster who told me they cannot search the kids clothes or do anything.

There have been local fires for weeks now in the same area. Even when something bad happens it seems laws are there to protect the guilty making it harder to solve a crime.
 

rifke

team bougatsa
whats wrong with the moors? dicken from the secret garden got up to all kinds of good adventures on the moors, he always had a bird in his pocket and he knew when a plant was wick or not. yes sir, he got a real education from his life on the moors.
 

g23

Always crashing in the same car
To be honest its rather baffling why someone would write such a song in the first place, but so it was done, killing children for fun also baffles me, but it happened. This is not a trivial subject, its one of the most shocking crimes of all time, so its baffling that it would be posted here, f*** Brady!!
People process atrocity in many different ways. Morrissey and co. processed the very real fear they felt at growing up on those same streets where the victims were abducted by channeling it into song, which is a healthier response than most. The song is incredibly powerful and brave in its directness, without ever going either syrupy or exploitive, which is a miracle, given the subject matter. Let him rot. I hope this brings some sense of closure for those who need it.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Boo hiss. The English bogey man is dead and society gets a chance to vent some (self) righteous anger. But do not forget that statistically children are most likely to be harmed by their father or stepfather or uncle - not by a stranger. And how many children did we kill in Dresden? How many children did we kill in Afghanistan and Iraq? We're all child killers. And we quite happily kill the young of animals every day to serve up as burgers and steak. 'Civilisation' is built on cruelty and depravity. Celebrate this man's death if you like - but look at the world that created him.
 

celibate

Forever Ill
finally the murderers are dead, put the song on my facebook [suffer little children], not much to add, they both should have hanged..instead of asking for freedom every 2 year [Brady]

the Smiths song will keep the memories alive
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
wonder if this part will be in the movie

I'm sure it will be because Katherine Pearce will play Anji Hardy in the movie and in one of the articles about it it said that they talked to her sister who told them that Anji had been obsessed with the Moors murderers.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A simple attempt to find an explanation.

To Ketamine:

Yes, the same void inside can make a person create art.

i do not think the "void" in an artist can be equated to that of a serial killer. an artist (lets take.... uhhh... morrissey for example) creates work which makes people think (usually... ok not 'kiss me a lot') and which people enjoy. it is not too much of a stretch to say the void in morrissey created art which has touched millions of people and brought them great happiness. a killer like brady tortured and murdered young people for his own pleasure.

not even in the same room of comparison.
 

Johnny Barleycorn

Well-Known Member
Boo hiss. The English bogey man is dead and society gets a chance to vent some (self) righteous anger. But do not forget that statistically children are most likely to be harmed by their father or stepfather or uncle - not by a stranger. And how many children did we kill in Dresden? How many children did we kill in Afghanistan and Iraq? We're all child killers. And we quite happily kill the young of animals every day to serve up as burgers and steak. 'Civilisation' is built on cruelty and depravity. Celebrate this man's death if you like - but look at the world that created him.

We are used to the internet throwing up fake moral equivalences, but a post that manages to ally itself with a psychopathic child torturer and murderer, the Nazis, the Taliban and ISIS deserves a reply.

Firstly, you are unclear as to exactly what you mean by "English bogeyman". If you mean he was a bogeyman to the English, he would be a bogeyman in any civilised society. If you mean he was a bogeyman who was English, he was a Scot. I'd also contest your description of him as a bogeyman at all. He was a psychopath. Calling him anything else diminishes his crimes. Perhaps your intention.

Regarding Dresden and children, the answer is probably "not very many" as like the British the Germans evacuated children from their urban centres. If you (rightly) think even one is too many, you appear not to have the same concerns regarding Brady's victims.

At the time of the Dresden attacks you were much more likely to hit a PoW. I don't really know why I'm bothering to tell you this, because as you are clearly unable to differentiate between two psychopaths trawling Manchester for victims and the concept of total war, it seems rather a pointless exercise. Vonnegut wrote extensively on this topic, as he was there. He, like you, was also an oikophobe.

As for Afghanistan and Iraq I'm very much of the opinion that they can kill each other until the end of time for all I care. "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Interestingly, to me at least, the Afghan intervention driven by Republican men in Washington was in no small part driven in London by female Labour MPs intent on rescuing da sistahood from the oppression of the Taliban. These same Labour women, so intent to bring freedom of expression to the streets of Kandahar, are less concerned by its abscence on the streets of Kettering.

You Americans are lucky, you know. You only have one Nancy Pelosi. We have a couple of dozen.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Boo hiss. The English bogey man is dead and society gets a chance to vent some (self) righteous anger. But do not forget that statistically children are most likely to be harmed by their father or stepfather or uncle - not by a stranger. And how many children did we kill in Dresden? How many children did we kill in Afghanistan and Iraq? We're all child killers. And we quite happily kill the young of animals every day to serve up as burgers and steak. 'Civilisation' is built on cruelty and depravity. Celebrate this man's death if you like - but look at the world that created him.

If you are a child killer why don't you hand yourself into Scotland Yard?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
i do not think the "void" in an artist can be equated to that of a serial killer. an artist (lets take.... uhhh... morrissey for example) creates work which makes people think (usually... ok not 'kiss me a lot') and which people enjoy. it is not too much of a stretch to say the void in morrissey created art which has touched millions of people and brought them great happiness. a killer like brady tortured and murdered young people for his own pleasure.

not even in the same room of comparison.
I think the fact he never told investigators where the body of Keith was tells us all we need to know about him. He never had the talent to become famous or create any other attention to his persona so he chose to do that and to the end he knew keeping the only secret he had to himself meant he got attention.

I think there is a very fine line between creating something from the void inside you that is good and instead using it to do something destructive for both yourself and others. I have no idea if he was mentally ill or not but I can only hope he was not that it makes it easier to accept what he did.

The worst part with killers is that they take on this role of deciding if someone should live or die. I think that in itself shows how badly they need to feel in power over something when all else in their life are things they cannot really control in the same way. Recording it on tape tells me had a deep urge to become famous or infamous for something or anything.

These people just do not care at all and must have a severe disturbance in the part of the brain that hosts empathy.
 
I'm glad he avoided the death penalty. He deserved every second he rotted in jail.
I'm not pro death penalty but in this case I think it would have been appropriate, he's been waited on hand and foot for the last 30 years at the expense of the taxpayer, watching Hindley hang before he dropped would've been a more suitable punishment
 
H

Herpes Harmonica

Guest
I'm not pro death penalty but in this case I think it would have been appropriate, he's been waited on hand and foot for the last 30 years at the expense of the taxpayer, watching Hindley hang before he dropped would've been a more suitable punishment
The death penalty debate is like any debate. Some are for it and those against it present statistics claiming it does not help. In the end it is about money and people go to work to fund someone being kept alive that did something you cannot defend.

Very tricky debate indeed. When Maggie died they celebrated in the streets so why not now?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Not trying to throw up moral equivalence - just trying to suggest that if we represent Brady as the representative of 'absolute evil', as the English tabloids have done, hence 'English bogeyman', then we take the spotlight off ourselves. I do have to say I find your lack of compassion for dead Iraqis and Afghanis quite shocking - both wars funded by the taxpayers of Britain and America. Of course the moral equivalence is debatable - but that doesn't really matter if you're dead. There were so many dead by the way that the UN stopped counting. I don't really know why I'm bothering to tell you this, because as you are clearly not open to abstract thought, and it seems rather a pointless exercise, but I'm suggesting that governments and society can be psychopathic too - as represented by your callous disregard for dead foreigners - perhaps much more so than small-time psychopath Brady.



We are used to the internet throwing up fake moral equivalences, but a post that manages to ally with a psychopathic child torturer and murderer, the Nazis, the Taliban and ISIS deserves a reply.

Firstly, you are unclear as to exactly what you mean by "English bogeyman". If you mean he was a bogeyman to the English, he would be a bogeyman in any civilised society. If you mean he was a bogeyman who was English, he was a Scot. I'd also contest your description of him as a bogeyman at all. He was a psychopath. Calling him anything else diminishes his crimes. Perhaps your intention.

Regarding Dresden and children, the answer is probably "not very many" as like the British the Germans evacuated children from their urban centres. If you (rightly) think even one is too many, you appear not to have the same concerns regarding Brady's victims.

At the time of the Dresden attacks you were much more likely to hit a PoW. I don't really know why I'm bothering to tell you this, because as you are clearly unable to differentiate between two psychopaths trawling Manchester for victims and the concept of total war, it seems rather a pointless exercise. Vonnegut wrote extensively on this topic, as he was there. He, like you, was also an oikophobe.

As for Afghanistan and Iraq I'm very much of the opinion that they can kill each other until the end of time for all I care. "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Interestingly, to me at least, the Afghan intervention driven by Republican men in Washington was in no small part driven in London by female Labour MPs intent on rescuing da sistahood from the oppression of the Taliban. These same Labour women, so intent to bring freedom of expression to the streets of Kandahar, are less concerned by its abscence on the streets of Kettering.

You Americans are lucky, you know. You only have one Nancy Pelosi. We have a couple of dozen.
 

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