Mike Joyce's 'plea' for Smiths reunion

UPDATE 9:30 AM PT:

Mike Joyce reply to article posted by Uncleskinny:

Mike has posted this on Facebook...

"The article that was in The Sun's Bizarre column today is now a header on MSN too. So, let's straighten a few things out. I was called by a journalist from The Independent to talk about a new music college opening in Manchester called, BIMM. During the interview I was (inevitably, now it seems) asked about The Smiths reforming. I said that if I was asked, I would probably say yes. That's it...The journalist who I spoke to has contacted The Sun and made a story out of it. There is no,"plea" from me as The Sun have stated or as MSN have suggested me, "urging Morrissey to consider reuniting the band in a bid to please fans." Nor will there ever be."

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'Bring back The Smiths' - article in the Sun

Column in the Sun claiming Mike Joyce wants to reunite The Smiths. Hardly revolutionary news, but he seems to have been thinking about the setlist!

 

[Carly]

Warren Zevon (January 24th, 1947 – September 7th, 2003) was an American rock singer-songwriter and musician. He was known for the dark and somewhat bizarre sense of humor in his lyrics.

Who is Frank Gallagher?

Off a TV series called Shameless.

 

[HandThatRocksTheCradle]

Graham Parker and the Rumour just released a new album after 31 years...

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

Graham Parker and the Rumour just released a new album after 31 years...

There was a documentary about him on the BBC a couple of months ago. I was surprised how well thought of he was by many people including Springsteen. Temporary Beauty is a great song.

 

[Rowntree]

You don't get a choice if a court case goes against you. You can appeal, then if that is unsuccessful, you are required to pay up. It's a very basic tenet of the judicial system.

I think Morrissey today is a very different creature to the one prior to that court date. His public persona is of a defeated man, mired in bitterness and anger. It isn't a very pretty sight.

In the next couple of months he'll be running his mouth off once more. We have La Middleton's baby imminent, and he is due a visit to Buenos Aires, and that will only end one way. The parallels between Morrissey and Lord Haw Haw are becoming clearer with each passing year. An Irishman, who masquerades as an Englishman, while spilling bile on his adopted homeland to left and right as he addresses the world.

The only difference is Morrissey gets less radio time.

I have to agree Johnny, I think the Judge failed to recognise that the 10% didn't account for the extra work that Johnny and Morrissey did aside from performances so it was never going to be fair but with his stance Morrissey's only defeated himself. Why did he never appeal?

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

I have to agree Johnny, I think the Judge failed to recognise that the 10% didn't account for the extra work that Johnny and Morrissey did aside from performances so it was never going to be fair but with his stance Morrissey's only defeated himself. Why did he never appeal?

This is another reason why the "I was out of the country" thing doesn't hold water either. There is not a respected judicial system in the world which would recognise that as a mitigating argument. I would have thought if that was the case some of the responsibility would fall upon Morrissey's business manager at the time, if he had one.

Of course, if you sat down with either Morrissey or Joyce both could probably make good arguments in their own favour, which is why it went to court in the first place. Personally, I thought Morrissey's argument in his statement from 2005 was very compelling.

It's a shame the whole thing happened at all. None of us here are privy to the intricacies of this matter, but I do think it has cast a shadow over Morrissey since. If you thought you were the subject of such injustice how could it not? I'd be livid. It certainly polluted Maladjusted, an album that needed a three minute Joyce rant like a hole in the head.

Morrissey is patently a clever guy, and highly talented. I'm just not convinced he's a nice guy, where once he seemed to be, and I think much of that came from the damning words and actions of Judge Weeks.

 

[Anonymous]

"Morrissey is patently a clever guy, and highly talented. I'm just not convinced he's a nice guy, where once he seemed to be" - sorry to hear that coz he always speaks very highly of you, JB.

 

[Cornflakes]

I have to agree Johnny, I think the Judge failed to recognise that the 10% didn't account for the extra work that Johnny and Morrissey did aside from performances so it was never going to be fair but with his stance Morrissey's only defeated himself. Why did he never appeal?

Well, he did appeal, in 1999, but it seems like that was always doomed to failure.

The extra work that J&M did is largely accounted for in production and songwriting royalties. Apart from that, there's sundry things like artwork, which it might be argued Morrissey should have got fees for, but that's between him and Geoff Travis. And maybe there's a case for arguing that Johnny should have got a percentage as de facto manager for a period. And, of course, the two of them did more media. But mechanical royalties are basically for turning up at the studio and the default is that the members of a band who do the turning up get to share those equally.

Seems to me that the fair thing to do is to not to compare Joyce to Morrissey (in which case, saying that M's singing is worth 250% of J's drumming seems a bit arbitrary anyhow, absent an above-board contract that says so), but to compare him to the drummer out of the Stone Roses or the Inspiral Carpets, which is probably the comparison that motivated Joyce to sue in the first place.

 

[Jamie]

Well, he did appeal, in 1999, but it seems like that was always doomed to failure.

I believe the Observer article in 2002 noted that he had pursued it to the Ombudsmen's Office and as far as the European Court of Human Rights. I know nothing of the British judicial/appeals process, but I recall the latter was noted as his last recourse. It would seem to follow a pattern that Joyce/his representation escalated the methods/severity of attempts to collect as his appeal progressed from channel to channel.

Speaking wholly on an objective basis, I find it odd that thorough attempts were not made to serve Morrissey in the US in 2001. He has relatives and business holdings in the UK so I find it odd that no means were found to locate him. Wouldn't the court require that all efforts be exhausted to allow proceedings against him to continue?

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

"Morrissey is patently a clever guy, and highly talented. I'm just not convinced he's a nice guy, where once he seemed to be" - sorry to hear that coz he always speaks very highly of you, JB.

He's chosen to be a high profile public figure therefore my opinion is valid. If he visited here, and let's face it he knows a lot about this place for someone who doesn't, I doubt he'd like me very much.

I am, naturally, mortified at the thought.

 

[Cornflakes]

Speaking wholly on an objective basis, I find it odd that thorough attempts were not made to serve Morrissey in the US in 2001. He has relatives and business holdings in the UK so I find it odd that no means were found to locate him. Wouldn't the court require that all efforts be exhausted to allow proceedings against him to continue?

I don't know what would be normal in terms of serving papers when someone is overseas, but Morrissey seems to say in his statement that he was not personally served, not necessarily that there was no service or that he was unaware of any proceedings.

 

[Anonymous]

He's chosen to be a high profile public figure therefore my opinion is valid. If he visited here, and let's face it he knows a lot about this place for someone who doesn't, I doubt he'd like me very much.

I am, naturally, mortified at the thought.

Your opinion is valid of course, but utterly meaningless since you don't know him, have had no personal dealings with him, and are judging him purely on hearsay and (perhaps) taking at literal face value a few hyperbole-rich comments he's made.

 

[Rowntree]

Well, he did appeal, in 1999, but it seems like that was always doomed to failure.

The extra work that J&M did is largely accounted for in production and songwriting royalties. Apart from that, there's sundry things like artwork, which it might be argued Morrissey should have got fees for, but that's between him and Geoff Travis. And maybe there's a case for arguing that Johnny should have got a percentage as de facto manager for a period. And, of course, the two of them did more media. But mechanical royalties are basically for turning up at the studio and the default is that the members of a band who do the turning up get to share those equally.

Seems to me that the fair thing to do is to not to compare Joyce to Morrissey (in which case, saying that M's singing is worth 250% of J's drumming seems a bit arbitrary anyhow, absent an above-board contract that says so), but to compare him to the drummer out of the Stone Roses or the Inspiral Carpets, which is probably the comparison that motivated Joyce to sue in the first place.

Interesting stuff, I didn't realise he'd appealed and for certain the judge in legal terms was correct in discounting other things that Morrissey and Marr did as the royalties are for performance rather than everything excluding songwriting. So it was not sorting out a proper contract with who gets paid for what is what's cost M&M then coming from the lack of a manager and the reasons for that along with the lightening speed which they broke and the closeness and trust that the band members must have had.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

The journalist and Joyce both have their head up their own arses. How many times does this subject come up? The only time The Smiths will get back together are if strings are put on Morrisseys skeleton to move onstage and his voice is overdubbed with his dead body fake singing.

It'll never ever ever ever happen, why won't people realise?

I just wanted to revisit this gem that pretty much sums up everything regarding this thread.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

Your opinion is valid of course, but utterly meaningless since you don't know him, have had no personal dealings with him, and are judging him purely on hearsay and (perhaps) taking at literal face value a few hyperbole-rich comments he's made.

Ah, so unless you know someone personally you cannot comment on them, while they can pontificate and preen to their heart's content? How very... mad.

Time to close down the world wide web, everyone. Our anonymous friend has solved the internet.

 

[Anonymous]

I know the people here that Morrissey would like and the ones he wouldn't and the funny thing is that it matches up almost exactly with my own opinions.

 

[Mozza220559]

I just wanted to revisit this gem that pretty much sums up everything regarding this thread.

The one thing that annoys me the most is all this speculation that The Smiths will reform, it ain't going to f***ing happen!

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

I know the people here that Morrissey would like and the ones he wouldn't and the funny thing is that it matches up almost exactly with my own opinions.

It would be wrong for someone who claims such knowledge not to share it. Names please.

 

[jaypayton]

what solo career does Moz have exactly? He hasn't put out a record in 4 years and has no record deal and his last 2 albums were medicore AT BEST... Moz' solo career is in ruins and hasn't looked this bad since 1997

 

[prisoner77]

A Smiths reunion is never going to happen. Unfortunately Morrissey sings more and more of his smiths era materiel and the band don't cut it.

 

[mcrickson]

A Smiths reunion is never going to happen. Unfortunately Morrissey sings more and more of his smiths era materiel and the band don't cut it.