Mike Joyce talks about The Smiths at The Mouth Magazine

An anonymous person writes:

Extremely good podcast with Mike Joyce at The Mouth Magazine.
Over an hour of chat about The Smiths, and some really interesting stuff.

Mike Joyce - The Mouthcast - The Mouth Magazine

 

[Peanut]

Nice interview, thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Nice interview, thanks

Q the cult/toss/bots !

Benny-the-British-Butcher

 

[Anonymous]

This is a good interview, and one thing he says is very interesting. It boils down to Morrissey was either lying to the band then or lied about them later. Mike Joyce says Morrissey's opinions about everyone seem so poor in his book, so why did he continue on with them at the time? Someone should transcribe this. It really shows how dishonest Morrissey is and has been all along.

 

[and.and.and...]

Mike seems very reliable and honest to me, we know Morrissey lives in is own world. I've read autobiography and what annoyed me was him talking about dead people, or people that have unquestionably helped the Smiths, in a very bad way. And what about Alain White? He was described with such disrespect. I hated M while I was reading it. Again...Mike...I love listen stories from him. I kind of... really trust him!

 

[Anonymous]

"The unhappy past descends upon me each time I hear their voices (Andy's and Mike's) and I decide to not invite them to any further recording sessions."

It's a valid explanation, yet people and Mike Joyce seem to forget about those sentences and have very bad psychological knowledge. But, sorry, I forgot that he didn't read the book (of course) and that others just told him. I don't know what he expected. Further I think this interview was very hard to listen to. He complains about Moz' ranting and then continues ranting himself. If everyone thinks that Mike is so honest then how do you explain that, in essence, Johnny Marr says exactly the same as Moz? He said that Mike knew about the split of the royalties and that he agreed to it and that he finds it sad that he goes to court years later without a memory about all of that just because he found out that his band mates had made a big mistake in not writing any agreement down. Then you must call Johnny a liar too. But he never is called like that because everyone regards him as a honest and down to earth guy. Everyone who thinks that just Moz is capable of twisting the truth (and he definitely does, sometimes) is very naive, I think.

 

[AztecCamera]

How many stones was he paid for this interview? Maybe it was enough to move out of his parent's basement now and get a "flat" in Higginsbottom Town United. Anonymous-

 

[and.and.and...]

Regarding the royalties, I think Johnny was a liar too. Nevertheless, just a little bit less than M in many other questions.

 

[Anonymous]

Mike seems very reliable and honest to me, we know Morrissey lives in is own world. I've read autobiography and what annoyed me was him talking about dead people, or people that have unquestionably helped the Smiths, in a very bad way. And what about Alain White? He was described with such disrespect. I hated M while I was reading it. Again...Mike...I love listen stories from him. I kind of... really trust him!

Great read and and and but I must warn you that any support for the ex-communicated is not tolerated by quite a few certain posters on here ! Especially when it comes to Mike, he is the devil as far as the cult are concerned.
I am not one, keep up your refreshing posts.
Have a great weekend.

Benny-the-British-Butcher

 

[Flibberty]

I thought it was a very good interview. There are always questions that could have been asked but I thought it had some interesting insights. The court case thing is much too complicated to just be separated into right and wrong in my opinion.

I`m re-reading Moz's autobiography now and, while he does criticize many people including Mike, he is also pretty positive about both Mike's and Andy's musicianship.

 

[and.and.and...]

Great read and and and but I must warn you that any support for the ex-communicated is not tolerated by quite a few certain posters on here ! Especially when it comes to Mike, he is the devil as far as the cult are concerned.
I am not one, keep up your refreshing posts.
Have a great weekend.

Benny-the-British-Butcher

Have a great weekend you too Benny, even if it'll be a rainy weekend here in Italy...

 

[BrummieBoy]

This is a good interview, and one thing he says is very interesting. It boils down to Morrissey was either lying to the band then or lied about them later. Mike Joyce says Morrissey's opinions about everyone seem so poor in his book, so why did he continue on with them at the time? Someone should transcribe this. It really shows how dishonest Morrissey is and has been all along.

This interview is DYNAMITE! I doubt Morrissey will be able to restrain himself. To say that Joyce puts Morrissey in his place is an understatement. A ruthless, fair, objective dismissal of Morrissey's claims to be 'the injured party' delivered with humour and clarity. Mike Joyce should write his own history of The Smiths as he comes across as a lucid, credible witness, unlike the devious, truculent and unreliable singer. Hilarious stuff. Though I doubt there's much laughter in a certain 5 star hotel in Asuncion as Morrissey listens to his former drummer comprehensively ridicule him. I doubt a reunion by The Smiths is now possible unless Morrissey is forced to eat humble pie for financial reasons. What a fool he has turned out to be, thinking he could parlay a one-dimensional account and not face this devastating come-back. Here are some of the highlights, but it's all really good. Joyce has totally debunked Morrissey in this interview. If Morrissey doesn't respond then it's pretty clear it's because he has no logical grounds on which to do so.

best wishes
BrummieBoy

The Mouth Magazine: "The lyrics were wonderful snapshots of the human condition, delivered by a kitchen-sink drama-queen.
"
MJ: "The Smiths were one or two steps away from being a major arena band"

"I don't speak to Johnny at all"

"...the things that happened with Morrissey's mother....that's untrue what he said about me kicking his mother out onto the street and trying to get an eviction order...it didn't happen...what does he say? A pensioner? I'm surprised he didn't say with a broken leg or with arthritis with no teeth dying on the street and there's me kicking her and laughing, spitting in her face ....poisoning her cats- it's nonsense...it does rile me a little bit...incredibly overblown, his way of saying it...He owed me a lot of money. Morrissey took his business out of the UK, his publishing, everything, earnings, assets, the judgement was based in the UK court."

"He was really having a go at, I think it was Andy, nasty personal stuff, nasty, vindictive, aggressive...he was doing the same thing to Johnny on a couple of pages...everybody's getting it in the neck, living or dead.....it's just impossible that everybody is stupid, thoughtless, stupid, hopeless at their job, unfaithful, crass, dishonest...

It's just bizarre....very odd, strange, inexplicable. It's very difficult to take anything he says with anything other than "it's just Morrissey ranting...". I don't think he's telling the truth in terms of that's how he felt, if he felt that at the time he wouldn't have been working with us...you're giving them that feeling of importance, how important you are to the band, that camaraderie, strength through unity when, in fact, he just thinks you're a piece of shit..quite shocking....He's either re-writing it or really believed that, neither one sounds that great to me"

"Morrissey's not even in the band! .....I'm talking about instrumentation. He's not even on the record. OK, he's singing on it but.. He doesn't even play an instrument, why should he get 3 times more than someone who actually plays on the record?....

"Morrissey receives 50% each of the publishing on the 4 instrumental tracks...I don't even receive a penny... and he's not even on the record...I was there more than Morrissey in the studio, that's a fact....I wasn't a session musician"
"

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the transcription. I also felt these were the relevant parts. It's easy to see now that Morrissey lied about Joyce trying to take his mother's house, just like he lied about the rejection of the tribute single. It's kind of sad that Joyce can't say hello to Marr over all this, but I think that's down to Marr being a mercenary.

 

[BrummieBoy]

'Dishonest' ? If that really be the case. Don't know, we weren't there. In situations people have to do things that to the outsider or looking back on it can seem... 'dishonest'. But I'm glad some people are the way they are in order to get things done... And in this case (if it be true at all) then god bless the ones who pulled it all together to make it happen. Great art takes hardship on all sides in different forms.

Also the label did reject request to re-release song as tribute. They just used a lot of round about ways/words to do it. Making it harder for M to get it done through Universal. I'm not defending him, If he wanted to..guess he could have found another way.

Morrissey lost the court case and is a fugitive from the judgement, forced into involuntary foreign exile from the UK which he tries to spin as his choice. His ludicrous wailing about the 'injustice' of the verdict has always been nonsense. Whilst the court case didn't label Morrissey as 'dishonest' he was famously described as 'devious, truculent and unreliable' during the proceedings. The Court wasn't there but found it easy to reach a judgement that Morrissey's version of events was untenable. You will also recall that Morrissey lost his appeal to the House Of Lords. Assuming that Morrissey has never paid Mike Joyce for his contribution, the accrued fees and costs to Morrissey must now be astronomical. If Joyce is correct in saying that Morrissey insisted on 50% publishing royalties for instrumentals, then I think that is very clearly dubious, insulting and greedy to Joyce and Rourke. If you are 'quite happy' about Morrissey's unscrupulous behaviour in demanding royalties for instrumentals then you merely confirm that you are as morally dubious as he is. That is your problem.

Given that Morrissey took the precaution of transferring ownership of his UK properties to family members, it's clear he knew he might be exposed by the Court. One can forsee a tragic situation whereby he has to decide between his tax exile status and being there for his ageing parents. I hope he is chased to the ends of the earth until his dying breath. He lost the case, lost the appeal and appears to have concocted an entirely implausible account for his 'Autobiography'.

best
BrummieBoy

 

[Anonymous]

Morrissey may be difficult to work with, but theirs no doubt without his lyrics and voice the smiths could not have happened, Mike Joyce was fortunate to be involved and if he hadn't taken Morrissey to court their may have been a chance of a Smiths reunion, that would be worth millions to all members, that is the reason Mike is becoming bitter now, must be kicking himself, Morrissey will decide if the smiths reform not Mike Joyce.

 

[BrummieBoy]

Sorry ..You missed my point ONCE AGAIN. But you often do that... you take anything if it gives you the slightest opportunity to fly in with your tiresome diatribe of HATE.

I did NOT ONCE in my post mention court case,etc. For your benefit I was saying that in band situations sometimes in order to get things done and to make them work, one has to play the 'bad guy'. We don't know if this is/was true in this situation, since we were not there. Just saying.

kS,

It is NOT POSSIBLE for you to know what my point was! You live in a privately constructed world. You can never know what I meant as you weren't there when I thought it or typed it, just as none of us can ever know what Morrissey meant. Or Mike Joyce. It may be helpful to you to realise that the logical conclusion of your oft-repeated solipsism is that there is no point in you ever replying to another comment. Trust me, your comments would not be missed, indeed, nobody could reliably communicate about your absence as they wouldn't be 'there' when you decide to stop taking ketamine and get out into the sunshine.

best
BrummieBoy

 

[Anonymous]

Morrissey may be difficult to work with, but theirs no doubt without his lyrics and voice the smiths could not have happened, Mike Joyce was fortunate to be involved and if he hadn't taken Morrissey to court their may have been a chance of a Smiths reunion, that would be worth millions to all members, that is the reason Mike is becoming bitter now, must be kicking himself, Morrissey will decide if the smiths reform not Mike Joyce.

But he doesn't sound bitter at all. Listen to the interview. To me The Smiths were Morrissey's band the same way his classic mid 90's band was his band. I file my Smiths songs in my Morrissey folder. I would never say he wasn't the majority of the reason that band made it. Mike Joyce WAS fortunate to be involved, and never denies this in any way.
But, Morrissey and Johnny took, not only all publishing royalties, but also the great majority of performance royalties as if Joyce and Rourke made no contributions to the tracks, as if they were shown their parts and played them, and that wasn't true. Without a written contract the law is that Joyce was entitled to the money he sued for, and it was in fact decided that he was. He says in the interview he would have accepted a settlement but of course Morrissey cut off communication.
To continue in a situation where you are exploited so that someday you may be paid is really foolish. Once people show their hand they are unlikely to change. Maybe Joyce would get "millions" now if The Smiths toured, but more likely is that he would be treated as a "lawnmower part" who is only there so that the advertisements can say "The Smiths." It would probably be handled the way Kiss handled their reunion where the returning members were paid as sidemen and were not actually band members anymore.

 

[BrummieBoy]

YAWN.

How can Ketamine Sun POSSIBLY know how I feel?

Check Mate!

best
BrummieBoy

 

[Anonymous]

I don't imagine you 'feel' at all. How could you with posts like yours.


Sorry ..You missed my point ONCE AGAIN. But you often do that... you take anything if it gives you the slightest opportunity to fly in with your tiresome diatribe of HATE.

I did NOT ONCE in my post mention court case,etc. For your benefit I was saying that in band situations sometimes in order to get things done and to make them work, one has to play the 'bad guy'. We don't know if this is/was true in this situation, since we were not there. Just saying.

It wasn't about playing the bad guy. You have concocted your own narrative, which is of course the truth to you, and so forth. What Joyce is saying is that Morrissey didn't complain about all of these things at the time, so it's strange that he would now denigrate everyone involved. Morrissey seemed rightfully proud of The Smiths and their records. The point is that he was either lying then or he is lying now.
So you might say, "Well, Morrissey had to play the "good guy" to get things done." No. If they were such incompetent idiots, and Alain as well, then why did he work with them for years? Why, if they didn't deserve to be in his band, did he go on with them, and even work with them in some choice moments of his solo career?

This is rhetorical. You don't need to answer. None of us was there. But Mike Joyce was there, and he is saying that there are inconsistencies in Morrissey's story, and pointing out what they are. Of course, both things can't be true.

 

[Anonymous]

I have never heard or read anything less than a very good interview at The Mouth. Some are absolute classics - the John Cooper-Clarke springs to mind. Tim Booth was also really good. But this one may be the best. I think it's about time we heard something like this about the court case. Mike is right - it can't be everyone else. There's something very wrong with Morrissey, his psychology.