Mike Joyce interview - Don't Believe The Hype (May 2016)

Mike Joyce Interview - Don't Believe The Hype (May 6, 2016)

Plenty of Smiths content, including the court case:

"The politics of being in a band are scary; nobody knows what is going to happen in the future, and you don’t want to upset your mates. But looking back, it’s an awful lot easier than being in a room with someone in a wig and thinking ‘how did it come to this?’ At the time I didn’t appreciate how serious it was, I didn’t think it would be such a big deal. After the first day, it was all over the newspapers, and it hit home”.

 

[Musician]

He was obviously found guilty by the judge but it doesn't mean that people think he should have been found guilty and that this disbelief has people siing with his resentment. He did of course end up abiding the law and paying

It's a never-ending debate, though. As some people DO find him guilty, too, not based on the jury's verdict but on common sense. I adored Morrissey in the 90s and meant a lot to me, but even back in the day I thought their (his and Marr's) approach was pitiful, and I still do.

 

[Anonymous]

It's a never-ending debate, though. As some people DO find him guilty, too, not based on the jury's verdict but on common sense. I adored Morrissey in the 90s and meant a lot to me, but even back in the day I thought their (his and Marr's) approach was pitiful, and I still do.

Agreed but I guess my advice would be the to not get to wrapped up in a never ending debate and remember the good things you like about both. We've all got faults me you morrissey and Joyce. I'm in the middle about it all and really I don't care that much in comparison to what I like about the smiths but by nature get caught up in a lot of hypothetical debates. Keeps the Message board going though so silver linings and all that. I'm a giant fan of nirvana but he also became a bit resentful and ungracious with credits when the money got large. A big appeal to nirvana was there un rockstar like stance on a lot of things, especially compared to eighties rock music, and sure it bugged me but people have moments when they don't act there best and I don't think it negates them completely. Lot of circumstances in situations. Morrissey so big thing I think was saying that Joyce was an equal part of the importance of the smiths more so than the money, which I'm not saying he didn't care about, and they were of course legally tied together. He's also extremely defensive. At some points he'll fight beyond what I think is best in the end and doesn't make for a pretty picture. At the end of the day and to end the ramble I guess it's just best to accept people for who they are, conflicted and complex, be as forgiving and gracious as you can when the subject comes up and enjoy the timeless music

 

[Quando quando quando]

Agreed but I guess my advice would be the to not get to wrapped up in a never ending debate and remember the good things you like about both. We've all got faults me you morrissey and Joyce. I'm in the middle about it all and really I don't care that much in comparison to what I like about the smiths but by nature get caught up in a lot of hypothetical debates. Keeps the Message board going though so silver linings and all that. I'm a giant fan of nirvana but he also became a bit resentful and ungracious with credits when the money got large. A big appeal to nirvana was there un rockstar like stance on a lot of things, especially compared to eighties rock music, and sure it bugged me but people have moments when they don't act there best and I don't think it negates them completely. Lot of circumstances in situations. Morrissey so big thing I think was saying that Joyce was an equal part of the importance of the smiths more so than the money, which I'm not saying he didn't care about, and they were of course legally tied together. He's also extremely defensive. At some points he'll fight beyond what I think is best in the end and doesn't make for a pretty picture. At the end of the day and to end the ramble I guess it's just best to accept people for who they are, conflicted and complex, be as forgiving and gracious as you can when the subject comes up and enjoy the timeless music

Agree with you for 99%.
This is the 1% missing:
" and they were of course legally tied together"
Apparently they were not or not good enough.
The legal eagles missed just a tiny, not so important (!) detail or mentioned it and were ignored.
I mean the legal eagles during Smiths time.

Not that it makes any difference cause they are all the same and could be described as replaceble lawnmowerparts as one of them said. It was one of the vultures that represented Moz and he was saying that about Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce.

Moz never said it. If I could I would search and find derogatory remarks from another vulture representing Joyce or who ever.
You see, this is how they are.

If you examine one flea, you know how the rest of them are and they did not represent their clients interests well.
All the money Mike Joyce had a legally right to receive cannot make up for the sorrow it has caused and if I am not mistaken, even Mike Joyce has regrets about what went on, although he could not estimate at the time, or thought he was right at that time.

Edit: I regret comparing them with animals. Sorry eagles and fleas.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Except, the ''facts'' were actual facts. Morrissey and his lawyer(s) could have easily prove they are wrong, were they not facts. It is a documented trial for the public.

Additionally: with all my best intentions, you can still love what Morrissey stands for, but, why is it so impossible he was guilty in what he was sentenced for? Correct me, I might be wrong, but as far as I know, Johnny Marr, who was partner in crime (literally), never denied or critisized the base of the verdict.
You might think MORALLY they (M&M) shouldn't have paid equal live royalty share, but, in absence of a written agreement, this is UK law. Now you surely know the expression: '

Ignorantia juris non excusat

This is how things work in most democracies. I might not accept the tax system in my country, but that won't give me any ground not to pay them.

The trial and Joyce were just tools to get M. It happens often, if one doesn't toe the line they will be put down.

This was the true injustice of this trial.

 

[Anonymous]

The trial and Joyce were just tools to get M. It happens often, if one doesn't toe the line they will be put down.

This was the true injustice of this trial.

Who do you think was out to get M? The Bilderberg group?

 

[Calamine Lotion]

Well I think morrissey had a bunch of qualms about how the case was handled which is why he appealed and let it get under his skin so much. That's where the pride issue comes in. I think it's more the legal meaning of the word guilty and and the common one. He was obviously found guilty by the judge but it doesn't mean that people think he should have been found guilty and that this disbelief has people siing with his resentment. He did of course end up abiding the law and paying

he wasn't found "guilty," as it was not a criminal trial.

 

[Uncleskinny]

The trial and Joyce were just tools to get M. It happens often, if one doesn't toe the line they will be put down.

This was the true injustice of this trial.

Ahahahahahahah! *deep breath* Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Ahahahahahahah! *deep breath* Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

ditto, dipshit.

 

[Anonymous]

The trial and Joyce were just tools to get M. It happens often, if one doesn't toe the line they will be put down.

This was the true injustice of this trial.

Correct. The verdict was in before the trial even started. Courtesy of the "old boys club".

 

[Uncleskinny]

Correct. The verdict was in before the trial even started. Courtesy of the "old boys club".

I see. And what actual facts do you have for this statement?

 

[Anonymous]

I see. And what actual facts do you have for this statement?

And what facts do you have that it didn't? What are you, the judge's son or something?

 

[Musician]

The trial and Joyce were just tools to get M. It happens often, if one doesn't toe the line they will be put down.

This was the true injustice of this trial.

Sorry to disappoint you...but if you were there and then, you'd know, Morrissey wasn't that important in British pop music by 1996. With Britpop and Oasis, he must have been regarded as "dangerous" by a few pensioner in Norwich.

 

[Anonymous]

he wasn't found "guilty," as it was not a criminal trial.

Guilty was the word used by the poster I was talking to and it not important to our point. This is me saying its me and let's not

 

[Uncleskinny]

And what facts do you have that it didn't? What are you, the judge's son or something?

Just superb. I love non-thinking idiots.

Fabulous.

 

[Surface]

Correct. The verdict was in before the trial even started. Courtesy of the "old boys club".

What a load of shit.

As much as I like Morrissey/Smiths music, the court case was the start of me disliking him as a person.

 

[vegan.cro]

The trial and Joyce were just tools to get M. It happens often, if one doesn't toe the line they will be put down.

This was the true injustice of this trial.

Among the most interesting discussions in Mark Simpson's book ("Saint Morrissey") we find: "Morrissey had to become an 'unperson' so that the nineties and its centrally planned and coordinated pop economy could happen... In a sense, tho whole point... was to airbrush Morrissey out of the picture..." (page 193)
Also:
"I was working class and I was made to feel like a peasant", MORRISSEY ON JUDGE WEEKS, THE IRISH TIMES, 1999

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe not a real attempt but there was a danger, a risk and something hovering over your head like a black cloud that scares you and you don't know what is going to happen.

]
Given that her loving son is a mutli-millionaire who could buy her an entire street to move into if he wanted, it's difficult to believe she was really so scared she was going to jump in the river and end it all. Cracking song, mind you.

 

[Anonymous]

Just superb. I love non-thinking idiots.

Fabulous.

Classic textbook response. If you dare question the establishment then you must be "non-thinking idiots". You want facts, but these things aren't quite that bold. No memo's get sent. A suggestion is made or a subtle pressure is applied.

 

[Quando quando quando]

]
Given that her loving son is a mutli-millionaire who could buy her an entire street to move into if he wanted, it's difficult to believe she was really so scared she was going to jump in the river and end it all. Cracking song, mind you.

I know what you mean.
But even a multimillionaire son can't take away all that worries at once if you feel uncertain cause they are inside your head and anyway it could mean switching to another house and maybe it's just me, I hate that. The hassle, the pressure. It's different of course if you are wealthy but still.

By the way, we know nothing about his wealth, just assumptions, guessing. I don't want to know. He is entitled to have some privacy, at least what is left of it.
I appreciate it you like the song as much as I do.

 

[Anonymous]

What a load of shit.

As much as I like Morrissey/Smiths music, the court case was the start of me disliking him as a person.

Do you KNOW him as a person?