Mike Joyce FB/IG: "Win my original ‘Strangeways, Here We Come’ Silver Disc" (September 1, 2022)

From Facebook:

Win my original ‘Strangeways, Here We Come’ Silver Disc

Hi everyone, big news! It’s 35 years since The Smiths’ final album ‘Strangeways, Here We Come’ was released and I’m giving you the chance to own a special piece of the group’s history.

I’m raffling my original silver disc that was presented to me when the album reached 60,000 sales. Rather than auctioning it to a wealthy collector I wanted to raffle it to give every Smiths fan a chance of owning it.

All the proceeds generated will go to raise money for Back on Track, a Manchester charity that I’m a patron of. I’ve worked with Back on Track on several projects over the last few years and I’ve seen for myself the difference they make. They’re currently supporting so many people struggling with the cost of living crisis and I wanted to do what I could to help.

To enter all you have to do is buy a £5 raffle ticket via Back on Track’s Just Giving page www.justgiving.com/fundraising/strangewaysraffle.
The draw will be on 28th September – 35 years to the day since the album’s release.

There are also four runner up prizes of this brilliant photo by photographer Paul Husband, who has captured the images of some of the biggest names in the music and entertainment industry. Each will be framed and signed by me.

Remember, this is the original official silver disc, not a copy. Strangeways, Here We Come is my personal favourite of our albums so this disc really means a lot to me – but I know what a massive difference the money we raise will make to people going through a hard time. You can buy as many tickets as you want – let’s raise as much as we can. Please share this to as many folk as you can. Good luck!

Just photo details:


Mike's charity:

Home - Back on Track

Back on Track is a Manchester charity that supports people who have been homeless or had mental health problems. Donate to make a difference.

www.backontrackmanchester.org.uk

Regards,
FWD.

---

Related item:

• Mike Joyce FB/IG: on Strangeways upcoming 35th anniversary & a chance to own... TBA - August 9, 2022

 

[Les Tameside]

I agree. That's something you might want to change. I mean, they're not working or learning skills or getting treatment, either. They need help with things, and I think that's why this charity was set up. By making vegetarianism a requirement for receiving aid, the charity would become doubly effective: it would offer aid to humans, and at the same time it would decrease animal suffering.

If you’re going to give, you should give with an open hand. Have homeless people not had enough agency/choice taken from them?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I agree. That's something you might want to change. I mean, they're not working or learning skills or getting treatment, either. They need help with things, and I think that's why this charity was set up. By making vegetarianism a requirement for receiving aid, the charity would become doubly effective: it would offer aid to humans, and at the same time it would decrease animal suffering.

Your hearts in the right place, but I don’t believe forcing people to do anything is such a great idea.

Forcing people to become vegetarian, would be the same as forcing people to either get the vaccine or they won’t be allowed to earn a living, etc. Reward and punishment, sadly, that’s society.

I think a better way to go, would be a requirement to attend classes that educate people on diet, environment, and meditation. So it opens to them new ideas and ways of perceiving themselves in the world and personal responsibilities that they
weren’t even aware of, at least they would have the choice to take these kind of things into consideration to make better choices for themselves and the world.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Your hearts in the right place, but I don’t believe forcing people to do anything is such a great idea.

Forcing people to become vegetarian, would be the same as forcing people to either get the vaccine or they won’t be allowed to earn a living, etc. Reward and punishment, sadly, that’s society.

I think a better way to go, would be a requirement to attend classes that educate people on diet, environment, and meditation. So it opens to them new ideas and ways of perceiving themselves in the world and personal responsibilities that they
weren’t even aware of, at least they would have the choice to take these kind of things into consideration to make better choices for themselves and the world.

If you’re going to give, you should give with an open hand. Have homeless people not had enough agency/choice taken from them?

Perhaps I'm unclear on how Back On Track functions, but isn't it voluntary? I'm not advocating they force anyone to do anything. I don't imagine that's how they work. Presumably they're not just going up to the homeless alcoholic sleeping on cardboard against the wall of a Manchester train station and saying, "here we go, Pops. We're going to get you clean and sober." And when the homeless guy shoos them away and growls, "bugger off, bitch-boys!," they don't scoop him up and throw him in the back of a van to take him to a clinic.

I would think it a requirement of theirs, for someone in need of their services, that the person want the help. Back on Track could simply add a secondary requirement: that the person adhere to a vegetarian diet. You're not forcing anyone; it all remains voluntary. There are welfare programs that work this way; they try to incentivize and de-incentivize certain behaviors. Here in the U.S., most unemployment benefits are contingent upon the person demonstrating that they're looking for a job. This prevents the benefits system from being abused by people who want to get paid for not working. There's the episode of Seinfeld where George tries to pull a ruse by having Jerry's apartment phone be the number of a phony latex manufacturer, Vandelay Industries.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Perhaps I'm unclear on how Back On Track functions, but isn't it voluntary? I'm not advocating they force anyone to do anything. I don't imagine that's how they work. Presumably they're not just going up to the homeless alcoholic sleeping on cardboard against the wall of a Manchester train station and saying, "here we go, Pops. We're going to get you clean and sober." And when the homeless guy shoos them away and growls, "bugger off, bitch-boys!," they don't scoop him up and throw him in the back of a van to take him to a clinic.

I would think it a requirement of theirs, for someone in need of their services, that the person want the help. Back on Track could simply add a secondary requirement: that the person adhere to a vegetarian diet.

You're not forcing anyone; it all remains voluntary. There are welfare programs that work this way; they try to incentivize and de-incentivize certain behaviors. Here in the U.S., most unemployment benefits are contingent upon the person demonstrating that they're looking for a job. This prevents the benefits system from being abused by people who want to get paid for not working. There's the episode of Seinfeld where George tries to pull a ruse by having Jerry's apartment phone be the number of a phony latex manufacturer, Vandelay Industries.

But it’s still reward and punishment. If you do this, then you get this. It is a form of enforcement. You’re not really giving them a choice, if they need help.

And how could they truly monitor people to ensure that they are indeed vegetarian. Anyway that’s beside my point.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

But it’s still reward and punishment. If you do this, then you get this. It is a form of enforcement. You’re not really giving them a choice, if they need help.

Hmm, but isn't there already an "if you do X, then you get Y" involved? You have to do the work to get clean, or to get educated. You have to follow the counselors or the teachers. Things are mandated; things are forbidden. If you really do want to get better, you have to put in effort and make sacrifices. I don't have rehab experience on a personal level, but I have a relative who's been through it twice, and from his account, there are all kinds of restrictions and contraband regulations imposed. It would be great if we could wave a magic wand over these people and cure them, but from everything I understand about the process, it requires serious commitment on their part. Added to which, a wholesome plant-based diet is beneficial on its own merits. It could only be a help for these unfortunates, not a hurt. Not to mention the animals. The point of charity is to increase well-being and decrease suffering. This stricture would do both.

And how could they truly monitor people to ensure that they are indeed vegetarian. Anyway that’s beside my point.

That's simple. It would just be random testing, as is done for drugs. The only difference is that drugs are tested using a urine sample, diet from a stool sample.

 

[Les Tameside]

Hmm, but isn't there already an "if you do X, then you get Y" involved? You have to do the work to get clean, or to get educated. You have to follow the counselors or the teachers. Things are mandated; things are forbidden. If you really do want to get better, you have to make effort and sacrifices. I don't have rehab experience on a personal level, but I have a relative who's been through it twice, and from his account, there are all kinds of restrictions and contraband imposed. It would be great if we could wave a magic wand over these people and cure them, but from everything I understand about the process, it requires serious commitment on their part. Added to which, a wholesome plant-based diet is beneficial on its own merits. It could only be a help for these unfortunates, not a hurt. Not to mention the animals. The point of charity is to increase well-being and decrease suffering. This stricture would do both.



That's simple. It would just be random testing, as is done for drugs. The only difference is that drugs are tested using a urine sample, diet from a stool sample.

“That's simple. It would just be random testing, as is done for drugs. The only difference is that drugs are tested using a urine sample, diet from a stool sample.”

Wow. You’re uncompromising Aubrey. And if you test positive for cheese, it’s back to the old park bench? Which has by now been taken by a homeless carnivore?

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Wow. You’re uncompromising Aubrey. And if you test positive for cheese, it’s back to the old park bench? Which has by now been taken by a homeless carnivore?

Well, I don't know. But what happens if a person tests positive for alcohol during rehab, or for drugs during a hiring process? Do you just let it slide because "back to the old park bench" would be too cruel? Maybe you could have a "three strikes" rule if you wanted to be lenient. But there has to be some point at which you don't compromise, otherwise your charity is just throwing good money after bad. Your beneficiary has to demonstrate his or her commitment on some level, no?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Hmm, but isn't there already an "if you do X, then you get Y" involved? You have to do the work to get clean, or to get educated. You have to follow the counselors or the teachers. Things are mandated; things are forbidden. If you really do want to get better, you have to put in effort and make sacrifices. I don't have rehab experience on a personal level, but I have a relative who's been through it twice, and from his account, there are all kinds of restrictions and contraband regulations imposed. It would be great if we could wave a magic wand over these people and cure them, but from everything I understand about the process, it requires serious commitment on their part. Added to which, a wholesome plant-based diet is beneficial on its own merits. It could only be a help for these unfortunates, not a hurt. Not to mention the animals. The point of charity is to increase well-being and decrease suffering. This stricture would do both.

Yes but with all its requirements, incentives, and ‘help’ , it’s a system that fails. All success in ‘rehabilitation’ doesn’t stop the cycle created by society that produces those that need help in the first place. As with all matters such as this, the root of the problem is never addressed.

That's simple. It would just be random testing, as is done for drugs. The only difference is that drugs are tested using a urine sample, diet from a stool sample.

Again, if the root of these problems were not ignored then we wouldn’t need to have this conversation.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Yes but with all its requirements, incentives, and ‘help’ , it’s a system that fails. All success in ‘rehabilitation’ doesn’t stop the cycle created by society that produces those that need help in the first place. As with all matters such as this, the root of the problem is never addressed.

I'm confused. Are you saying rehabilitation programs are a system of failure because even their successes don't cure the problem altogether? Back On Track offers education and job training for people in rehab. Presumably (based on what I know of rehab), there are already various requirements, incentives, and lists of thou-shalt-nots involved in these rehab programs. My understanding is admittedly anecdotal, so correct me if I am wrong.

If you are saying that we should try to correct the root of these problems, then I guess you would probably want to ignore Back On Track and choose a different charity altogether.

 

[Light Housework]

Perhaps I'm unclear on how Back On Track functions, but isn't it voluntary? I'm not advocating they force anyone to do anything. I don't imagine that's how they work. Presumably they're not just going up to the homeless alcoholic sleeping on cardboard against the wall of a Manchester train station and saying, "here we go, Pops. We're going to get you clean and sober." And when the homeless guy shoos them away and growls, "bugger off, bitch-boys!," they don't scoop him up and throw him in the back of a van to take him to a clinic.

I would think it a requirement of theirs, for someone in need of their services, that the person want the help. Back on Track could simply add a secondary requirement: that the person adhere to a vegetarian diet. You're not forcing anyone; it all remains voluntary. There are welfare programs that work this way; they try to incentivize and de-incentivize certain behaviors. Here in the U.S., most unemployment benefits are contingent upon the person demonstrating that they're looking for a job. This prevents the benefits system from being abused by people who want to get paid for not working. There's the episode of Seinfeld where George tries to pull a ruse by having Jerry's apartment phone be the number of a phony latex manufacturer, Vandelay Industries.

If people don't want to work, they shouldn't have to. They can get out of the way, and let people who want to work, work.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

If people don't want to work, they shouldn't have to. They can get out of the way, and let people who want to work, work.

But what about people who want to get paid, but don't want to work?

 

[Light Housework]

One solution, is to give nutritious vegan meals free, and what happens is that the meat dishes look gross by comparison, and everybody goes for the vegan food.

That's what happened in a situation I was in many years ago. A group of people ordered vegetarian pizza for the vegetarians, and meat pizza for the meat eaters. When the pizzas arrived, everybody went straight for the colourful vegetarian pizza.

 

[Light Housework]

But what about people who want to get paid, but don't want to work?

I believe everyone should have a guaranteed basic income, enough for life's necessities and some fun.

 

[Light Housework]

That way, things get done well, by people who want to do the job, regardless of monetary compensation.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

I believe everyone should have a guaranteed basic income, enough for life's necessities and some fun.

No strings attached? What if they want to use their basic income to purchase meat or make anti-vegan propaganda?

 

[Light Housework]

No strings attached? What if they want to use their basic income to purchase meat or make anti-vegan propaganda?

I think people would be naturally more compassionate in such a system, where they're not punished for refusing to do a job they hate.

 

[Light Housework]

In a compassionate society, cruelty would stand out like a sore thumb.

 

[Light Housework]

Instead of going to work at McDonalds, in such a society, people would volunteer to make vegan meals for those who can't or won't, gladly.

 

[Lujissey]

Maybe Morrissey should out-philanthropize Mike Joyce by raffling off something more valuable than a silver Strangeways disc, and donating the proceeds to an animal charity.

I hate to say it, but the thing with Mike Joyce's charity is that it doesn't vet its beneficiaries for diet. So he may be saving humans, but if they're humans who eat meat, then his charity only increases the overall suffering quotient. I believe Joyce himself is a vegetarian.

Of course, Moz does it for animals, but we should see him more active in that, animals to him are perhaps more important than humans to Moz, so filantropia.mm well, I don't ask him to be a philanthropist. I think it should show that it does other things as important as philanthropy as it is to defend animals. We already know how much he did and we thank him. You just need to show what you are doing today. Using Central for that is a good idea, rather than showing some ......tonterias

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I'm confused. Are you saying rehabilitation programs are a system of failure because even their successes don't cure the problem altogether? Back On Track offers education and job training for people in rehab. Presumably (based on what I know of rehab), there are already various requirements, incentives, and lists of thou-shalt-nots involved in these rehab programs. My understanding is admittedly anecdotal, so correct me if I am wrong.

If you are saying that we should try to correct the root of these problems, then I guess you would probably want to ignore Back On Track and choose a different charity altogether.

I’m talking about welfare and rehab centers in general. They’re not wrong, it simply won’t and hasn’t yet changed anything in regards to why people become what they become and do what they do. But maybe they don’t want it to change, because they would be out of business if people didn’t need help.