meaning of "alabaster crashes down"?

S

shir

Guest
may sound a little weird
but if anyone here knows what is the meaning of the line "alabaster crashes down" in shoplifters of the world unite please tell me (and no sarcasm please, this is very important to me)

thank you
 
> may sound a little weird
> but if anyone here knows what is the meaning of the line "alabaster
> crashes down" in shoplifters of the world unite please tell me (and
> no sarcasm please, this is very important to me)

> thank you
alabaster is a material used on ceilings!
 
> may sound a little weird
> but if anyone here knows what is the meaning of the line "alabaster
> crashes down" in shoplifters of the world unite please tell me (and
> no sarcasm please, this is very important to me)

> thank you

I mentioned before that I think this refers to sex, alabaster as semen - "A heartless hand on my shoulder, a push and it's over, alabaster crashes down..."

Sk.
 
I thought it was about a shoplifter getting caught by a security guard ("a heartless hand......"), and pushed against a wall.
Since the shop might have been getting renovated at the time, this could cause recently installed alabaster to dislodge.
 
Shir,
My interpretation would be along the lines of Unc's in that "Shoplifters" is meant to be read or heard as "Shirtlifters" (double entendre), and there are other references ("my only weakness is a listed crime").

On the specific line Alabaster crashes down, I think that the alabsater is most likely to be an alabaster bust (see pic), much favoured in the homes of the very wealthy and "aesthetically literate". My camp piano teacher had lots of busts dotted around his home. "alabaster crashes down" is, I think, a metaphor for 'the Earth moving' for Morrissey.

A heartless hand on my shoulder
A push - and it's over
Alabaster crashes down
(Six months is a long time)
Tried living in the real world
Instead of a shell
But before I began ...
I was bored before I even began

> may sound a little weird
> but if anyone here knows what is the meaning of the line "alabaster
> crashes down" in shoplifters of the world unite please tell me (and
> no sarcasm please, this is very important to me)

> thank you




greek-god-hermes-2-mb-h-l.jpg
 
I love these kinds of threads and the insights of the Brits. I marvel at their interpretations.

"Alabaster crashes down
(6 Months is a long time)."

Could it refer to being sentenced to 6 months in prison for violating CLAUSE 28, and then being shoved into prison by a guard, and the material (alabaster) that comes crashing down from the prison cell ceilings & walls, when disturbed?
 
I would agree with Tingle's interpretation of the song as a double entendre of Shirtlifters and Shoplifters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the website "It May All End Tomorrow":

Clause 28 was a Maggie Thatcher invention during the mid-late eighties to stop the "promotion" of homosexuality and other "alternative lifestyles"; this meant that such things as plays, books and other media or arts related things were not allowed to promote alternative lifestyles (sounds unbelievable, but quite true), for example libraries could be prosecuted for holding books which specifically promoted such things.

"I follow her career," Morrissey says. "Obviously, I find the entire Thatcher syndrome very stressful and evil and all those other words. But I think there's very little that people can do about it. The most perfect example, I suppose, is Clause 28. I think that absolutely embodies Thatcher's very nature and her quite natural hatred."

I still believe that's what he was referring to in Shoplifters. The part about Channel 4 covering a future war could be to do with Clause 28 being overlooked in the channel's news, which I think was around the same time. Maybe the whole song is inspired by this Clause as it ties in with the line "...a listed crime".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This works extremely well with Uncleskinny's argument that the "Alabaster Crashes Down" line refers refers to sex (alabaster as semen - "A heartless hand on my shoulder, a push and it's over, alabaster crashes down..."), as the next line is "six months is a long time", which could then be meant to imply that gay sex has been criminalized (resulting in prison time - the "six months").

However, being that Morrissey is such a genius, he draws parallels to the crime of shoplifting (beginning with the very title of the song), and so the line has a double meaning, in which case it may also be interpreted, as Patrick McCann said, as a shoplifter getting caught by a security guard ("a heartless hand......"), and pushed against a wall.

In this way, the song uses the crime of Shoplifting as an analogy of the criminalization of being a "Shirtlifter", which was happening at that time in Britain with Clause 28.

Morrissey is brilliant.
 
Re: The problem is this:

I just can't see how 'S', (as it was referred to in Frasier last week), can "Crash" anywhere. I wonder if there was any significance in the choice of Elvis Presley as the coverstar?- I suspect there really wasn't. Mind you someone did describe 'Jailhouse Rock' as the best gay rock'n roll song ever.

> I would agree with Tingle's interpretation of the song as a double
> entendre of Shirtlifters and Shoplifters.

>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From the website "It May All End Tomorrow":

> Clause 28 was a Maggie Thatcher invention during the mid-late eighties to
> stop the "promotion" of homosexuality and other
> "alternative lifestyles"; this meant that such things as plays,
> books and other media or arts related things were not allowed to promote
> alternative lifestyles (sounds unbelievable, but quite true), for example
> libraries could be prosecuted for holding books which specifically
> promoted such things.

> "I follow her career," Morrissey says. "Obviously, I find
> the entire Thatcher syndrome very stressful and evil and all those other
> words. But I think there's very little that people can do about it. The
> most perfect example, I suppose, is Clause 28. I think that absolutely
> embodies Thatcher's very nature and her quite natural hatred."

> I still believe that's what he was referring to in Shoplifters. The part
> about Channel 4 covering a future war could be to do with Clause 28 being
> overlooked in the channel's news, which I think was around the same time.
> Maybe the whole song is inspired by this Clause as it ties in with the
> line "...a listed crime".

>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> This works extremely well with Uncleskinny's argument that the
> "Alabaster Crashes Down" line refers refers to sex (alabaster as
> semen - "A heartless hand on my shoulder, a push and it's over,
> alabaster crashes down..."), as the next line is "six months is
> a long time", which could then be meant to imply that gay sex has
> been criminalized (resulting in prison time - the "six months").

> However, being that Morrissey is such a genius, he draws parallels to the
> crime of shoplifting (beginning with the very title of the song), and so
> the line has a double meaning, in which case it may also be interpreted,
> as Patrick McCann said, as a shoplifter getting caught by a security guard
> ("a heartless hand......"), and pushed against a wall.

> In this way, the song uses the crime of Shoplifting as an analogy of the
> criminalization of being a "Shirtlifter", which was happening at
> that time in Britain with Clause 28.

> Morrissey is brilliant.
 
Re: Clause 28 ?

Clause 28 was introduced in 1988, Shoplifters would have been written in about 1986 at the latest. The single was released in January 1987 I think, not sure on the exact date of the top of my head. For me 'Shoplifters' could symbolise anyone, the working classes or homosexuals, I find it open to intepreation.

Thatcher really should have gone up in smoke with the Brighton bomb, it wouldn't have put an end to the Tory bullshit, but it would have given a lot of people some sense of justice. Particually the striking miners at the time.

> I would agree with Tingle's interpretation of the song as a double
> entendre of Shirtlifters and Shoplifters.

>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> From the website "It May All End Tomorrow":

> Clause 28 was a Maggie Thatcher invention during the mid-late eighties to
> stop the "promotion" of homosexuality and other
> "alternative lifestyles"; this meant that such things as plays,
> books and other media or arts related things were not allowed to promote
> alternative lifestyles (sounds unbelievable, but quite true), for example
> libraries could be prosecuted for holding books which specifically
> promoted such things.

> "I follow her career," Morrissey says. "Obviously, I find
> the entire Thatcher syndrome very stressful and evil and all those other
> words. But I think there's very little that people can do about it. The
> most perfect example, I suppose, is Clause 28. I think that absolutely
> embodies Thatcher's very nature and her quite natural hatred."

> I still believe that's what he was referring to in Shoplifters. The part
> about Channel 4 covering a future war could be to do with Clause 28 being
> overlooked in the channel's news, which I think was around the same time.
> Maybe the whole song is inspired by this Clause as it ties in with the
> line "...a listed crime".

>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> This works extremely well with Uncleskinny's argument that the
> "Alabaster Crashes Down" line refers refers to sex (alabaster as
> semen - "A heartless hand on my shoulder, a push and it's over,
> alabaster crashes down..."), as the next line is "six months is
> a long time", which could then be meant to imply that gay sex has
> been criminalized (resulting in prison time - the "six months").

> However, being that Morrissey is such a genius, he draws parallels to the
> crime of shoplifting (beginning with the very title of the song), and so
> the line has a double meaning, in which case it may also be interpreted,
> as Patrick McCann said, as a shoplifter getting caught by a security guard
> ("a heartless hand......"), and pushed against a wall.

> In this way, the song uses the crime of Shoplifting as an analogy of the
> criminalization of being a "Shirtlifter", which was happening at
> that time in Britain with Clause 28.

> Morrissey is brilliant.
 
Re: The problem is this:

After anal sex, semen often follows gravity's pull and drips out of the ass. While I guess semen itself wouldn't be described as "crashing" down (perhaps "trickling" down?), it could just be that in using the metaphor of alabaster for semen, Morrissey would then have to choose a word that describes what happens when alabaster falls, rather than for when semen falls (hence the "crashes down" and not "trickles down").
 
Re: Clause 28 ?

I don't know a lot about the history of Clause 28, and was simply going on what I had read on the website "It May All End Tomorrow".

However, Mark Simpson also implied that "Shoplifters" was written in response to Clause 28 in "Saint Morrissey" (which I myself have not yet had the opportunity to read).

Perhaps it's possible that people were aware of the development of Clause 28 prior to its actual implementation in 1988?

Whatever the case, I agree with your position on Thatcher wholeheartedly!
 
Do we have a difference in definition of "alabaster"?

Alabaster is a heavy translucent stone, somewhat like marble, that is used in sculptures. It is also relatively expensive. This wouldn't be in any prison in the US. I know Brits are big on posh stuff, but really?

Now Asbestos is a possibility. That's a flame retardant material used in schools and public buildings (later found to be carcinogenic).

I do agree that the song is about homosexuality and legality, but I think that "Alabaster crashes down" is a metaphor for losing ones place in society. Worlds crumbling, so to speak. Scandal. Exactly like what happened to Oscar Wilde when he was accused and convicted of being gay. And the other lines in that part of the song explain why the narrator wound up in this unhappy position:

Tried living in the real world
Instead of a shell
But before I began ...
I was bored before I even began
 
Re: Do we have a difference in definition of "alabaster"?

> I do agree that the song is about homosexuality and legality, but I think
> that "Alabaster crashes down" is a metaphor for losing ones
> place in society. Worlds crumbling, so to speak. Scandal.

Oooh, I like that! Alabaster being pure, white and spotless, only to come crashing down and become tarnished and broken, like one's reputation after a scandal. That's good.
 
Morrissey? Using double entendres?
Nooooooooooooo!!!
Heh heh

> I mentioned before that I think this refers to sex, alabaster as semen -
> "A heartless hand on my shoulder, a push and it's over, alabaster
> crashes down..."

> Sk.
 
Re: So it's not about getting caught shoplifting and pushed against a wall then??

I'll get my coat.
 
Re: So it's not about getting caught shoplifting and pushed against a wall then??

> I'll get my coat.

As long as it isn't a shop-lifted coat, Paddy
I knew that Noni would lead you into her light-fingered ways...
 
Re: Clause 28 ?

> I don't know a lot about the history of Clause 28, and was simply going on
> what I had read on the website "It May All End Tomorrow".

> However, Mark Simpson also implied that "Shoplifters" was
> written in response to Clause 28 in "Saint Morrissey" (which I
> myself have not yet had the opportunity to read).

> Perhaps it's possible that people were aware of the development of Clause
> 28 prior to its actual implementation in 1988?

That is a possibilty, I was about 12 at the time, so serious political debate was not so high on the agenda.
 
Re: Clause 28 ?

> That is a possibilty, I was about 12 at the time, so serious political
> debate was not so high on the agenda.

Just when the latest Brother Beyond single was coming out, eh Radar?
 
An interesting thread. Some fascinating interpretations. For my part, I think the answer is simpler.

"With more than admiration he admired
Her azure veins, her alabaster skin"
-- Shakespeare, "The Rape of Lucrece"

Alabaster is a poeticism often used to describe excessively white skin. The "push in the back" is being pushed over a cliff, another form of being stabbed in the back, which I think we can all agree is a favorite theme of his. "Alabaster crashing down" is thus a metaphor for Morrissey being shoved in the back over some nasty precipice.

In this way it also ties in with "Shakespeare's Sister": "Your white body"/"Alabaster", and "the rocks below"/"A push and it's over".

More generally, I have always interpreted the song as being Morrissey's despair over the fact that the world was slipping into the hands of wicked people. He lives in a shell, and to escape it and take on the world on its terms is both infuriating and boring for him. The second verse ends with "never mind" because he's coyly avoiding elaboration of the "listed crime" (possibly homosexuality) but also because he can't be bothered to finish his thought.

The one thing I have long puzzled over is the use of the word "shoplifter". While it's more interesting to think it's a play on "shirtlifter", I think he really meant shoppers who favor the "five-finger discount". Yet because of the way Morrissey uses the phrase "hand it over" it can have two meanings. Who is saying "hand it over"-- Morrissey or the authorities, whoever they might be? Is he trying to raise an insurrection of fearless shoplifters? Or is he addressing those he perceives as shoplifters?

In the first case, shoplifters are exactly what the name implies-- petty criminals-- and therefore (typically, for Morrissey) figures of romance. These types appear in a lot of his lyrics, and it seems to be popular with other songwriters of that time as well. For me the best expression of it is The Beautiful South's "I've Come For My Award", which is told from an evangelical shoplifter's perspective. There are probably others. I think for a lot of armchair anti-capitalists in the 1980s like Morrissey and Paul Heaton, actions like shoplifting ("People should steal Mars bars") or consumer boycotts ("Boycott Boots!") were appealing as simple grassroots defiance of capitalism.

In the second, shoplifters might be petty thieves who have "stolen" the world-- thieves like Thatcher and Reagan, for instance. Calling them "shoplifters" would be a way of downsizing them, denying them stature and importance. I think most people have had the sensation of sitting down, turning on the TV ("Channel Four"), and suddenly being struck by the fear that all the good things in the world are being stolen or destroyed by marauders with nice suits and government paychecks.

"Shoplifters Of The World Unite" is a magnificent portrayal of ambivalence. The speaker in the song is living in a shell, and, after peeking out for a second and registering his disgust at the world outside, retires for a nap. To me the song is one of Morrissey's quintessential political statements.
 
Back
Top Bottom