Marr discussions

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

The hate some have for Johnny Marr is really scary. Pathological, obsessive, Mark David Chapman stuff.

It almost matches the hate, redundant slight criticism, that Morrissey gets here.

Yes, pathological, obsessive …

 

[Gregor Samsa]

It almost matches the hate, redundant slight criticism, that Morrissey gets here.

Yes, pathological, obsessive …

I agree wholeheartedly. That’s probably even worse, since this is a Moz forum.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I agree wholeheartedly. That’s probably even worse, since this is a Moz forum.

Yes it is worse, because it is a Moz forum on which people come to vent and troll, totally loony. skinny, brummie, and a handful of the same anon cowards mostly, the worst.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Yes it is worse, because it is a Moz forum on which people come to vent and troll, totally loony. skinny, brummie, and a handful of the same anon cowards mostly, the worst.

But I do think this forum has seen worse days, on the whole. There was a time when the negatives/the haters outnumbered the normals.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Boomslang was one album back in ‘03, and then nothing for ten years. Can’t really say he’s been a solo artist for 20 years.

Whether or not NG is more talented than JM is entirely subjective and wasn’t at all what I was getting at.

I think Marr went solo as soon as he left The Smiths. As a session musician or under his own name, he’s always been solo, and his work should be judged that way. And let’s face it, most of it not very good, passable at best.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

But I do think this forum has seen worse days, on the whole. There was a time when the negatives/the haters outnumbered the normals.

yeah, well it took me a while to sort it out, but it’s getting better.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I think Marr went solo as soon as he left The Smiths. As a session musician or under his own name, he’s always been solo, and his work should be judged that way. And let’s face it, most of it not very good, passable at best.

That’s an extreme opinion and I shall never understand!

 

[Redacted]

I think it is negated. He did one album with the Healers, then went straight back to being a hired hand and member of different bands for ten years. If he had just taken a long break between albums and not done anything else, and if the Boomslang album was a proper solo album like The Messenger was, then I would agree with you.

Moz has also been quite disparaging about The Smiths (“we were never really friends”, he claimed in the Larry King interview, despite the fact claiming during the Smiths years that his only friends were the members of The Smiths, and in 1994 claiming that he loved JM. And in The Importance documentary, he said that we could draw parallels between his depression during the Smiths and the fact that he was in the Smiths). I don’t think either of them regrets being in The Smiths and I think they say shit like this just to stir the pot or be obstinate.

It’s quite normal for an opening act to play a short set. I’m not going out on a limb by saying that I think his regular set is longer than nine songs.

I don’t have any attendance numbers for any regular Marr gigs, but I think it’s safe to assume that such an influential figure can draw a couple of thousand per gig. Kind of like Moz nowadays. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Moz is the bigger draw. He should be. His solo career is longer and more influential and legendary than Marr’s. Again, the comparison is silly. Moz deserves to be compared with equals like Nick Cave. Let’s do that.

I think we are going around in circles at this point, I don't think either of us will agree with the other. I also think your hyperbole in describing people who do not like Marr is not helpful.

 

[F*ck Marr]

You are such a liar. When has Johnny disparaged the Smiths? And he’s only told truth about his relationship with Morrissey. He’s never been cruel about that. Some people can’t handle the truth.

Also I know where you got that setlist you posted - from a band member’s IG Stories. That’s some creepy stalker behavior for someone like you. You’re the one who should be embarrassed, coming on a Morrissey site to criticize someone that hasn’t worked with Moz for 35 years. But you can’t help yourself because you are obsessed. Have I got that right?

Oh phoney
You need to be schooled about their history

 

[Robin Mac]

Another great review of Johnny's show at Hyde Park:

BST Festival Hyde Park: Pearl Jam – live review

Pearl Jam cap a hot day in Hyde Park with songs of sincerity and messages of inclusion that turn the venue into a "refuge and a sanctuary".

louderthanwar.com

Just as versatile, but on guitar, is Johnny Marr. He’s no slouch as a singer either, opening his performance with an impassioned rendition of 2019 eco-disco single Armatopia. Spirit Power And Soul, one of the highlights of this year’s Fever Dreams Pts 1-4, sounds even better, lifted by the synth drums, pulsing keyboard line, and an airy solo from the man whose silhouettes (in zen pose with guitar, of course) fill the backdrop. Easy Money ratchets up the bpm even further and eventually prompts a comment on the weather (“England isn’t meant to be sunny”) that reveals even the ever-cool Mancunian is feeling the heat. Not that he shows it — at one point he gently calls out someone for looking down at their phone with the pitch-perfect “I hope you’re texting ‘Johnny Marr is f***ing badass'”. He is, and today’s set is further proof. Alongside the recent solo work, he generously dips back into the ’80s and ’90s, with a 2022 makeover of Electronic’s Getting Away With It (more groove, more guitar, no balearic keys) and plenty by The Smiths. Panic swings; This Charming Man jangles; Please, Please, Please Let Me Get What I Want waltzes (and expands with a mournful solo). How Soon Is Now still sounds otherworldly and closer There Is A Light That Never Goes Out (dedicated to “Eddie and the boys”) sparks what must be the most unlikely singalong by thousands of people in a sunsoaked garden: “And if a double-decker bus, Crashes into us, To die by your side, Is such a heavenly way to die”.

 

[Redacted]

No matter how many 'reviewers' blow smoke up his ass because he is not Morrissey, it's not helping him with his 'solo career'. Solo artists do their own shows, he can't, there is not a market for it. And again, he has to sing Morrissey's words, because his are gibberish. What kind of person continually talks shit about someone but keeps singing their words? Says he cannot relate to those words but won't stop singing them. Left a group because he wanted to play different music, but 40 years later, he is still playing that music.
This is from BMG as of 2021, it's pretty abysmal
2013's The Messenger (41,710 sales, OCC), 2014's Playland (27,636 sales) and 2018's Call The Comet (23,285 sales).

 

[Surface]

No matter how many 'reviewers' blow smoke up his ass because he is not Morrissey, it's not helping him with his 'solo career'. Solo artists do their own shows, he can't, there is not a market for it. And again, he has to sing Morrissey's words, because his are gibberish. What kind of person continually talks shit about someone but keeps singing their words? Says he cannot relate to those words but won't stop singing them. Left a group because he wanted to play different music, but 40 years later, he is still playing that music.
This is from BMG as of 2021, it's pretty abysmal
2013's The Messenger (41,710 sales, OCC), 2014's Playland (27,636 sales) and 2018's Call The Comet (23,285 sales).

Lol, is that the same BMG who dropped Morrissey. Did you see the first week sales (generally the highest when new material is released) for Morrisseys last 3 albums, they were less than Marrs.

 

[Redacted]

Lol, is that the same BMG who dropped Morrissey. Did you see the first week sales (generally the highest when new material is released) for Morrisseys last 3 albums, they were less than Marrs.

I have already told you we are not discussing this

 

[Surface]

I have already told you we are not discussing this

Tell me what you want, doesn’t mean I will listen you clown

 

[Redacted]

Tell me what you want, doesn’t mean I will listen you clown

You don't know how to do anything but be abusive, as you have proven again. You don't have a choice here, the choice is mine and I am not discussing this with you. Maybe you'd be happier in a place that only praises Marr, this is not it.

 

[Surface]

You don't know how to do anything but be abusive, as you have proven again. You don't have a choice here, the choice is mine and I am not discussing this with you. Maybe you'd be happier in a place that only praises Marr, this is not it.

This a place for Morrissey and all things Smiths so happy here seeing as I go to see both Morrissey and Marr. Ironic you mention abuse after all the bile you spewed at Light Housework.

 

[Anonymous]

No matter how many 'reviewers' blow smoke up his ass because he is not Morrissey, it's not helping him with his 'solo career'. Solo artists do their own shows, he can't, there is not a market for it. And again, he has to sing Morrissey's words, because his are gibberish. What kind of person continually talks shit about someone but keeps singing their words? Says he cannot relate to those words but won't stop singing them. Left a group because he wanted to play different music, but 40 years later, he is still playing that music.
This is from BMG as of 2021, it's pretty abysmal
2013's The Messenger (41,710 sales, OCC), 2014's Playland (27,636 sales) and 2018's Call The Comet (23,285 sales).

Let's see Morrissey's sales of his last three albums in comparison then!

 

[Amy]

As far as I can see, 3 major things have contributed to the “Marr hatred” on here.

1. The Great Estrangement with Moz, the general froideur between them and the cattiness that some fans seem to be absorbing. That situation should be heartbreaking for Smiths fans, I don’t understand how anyone could possibly enjoy it.
   
   
2. The bizarre circumstance of JM going solo late in life and suddenly becoming visible / being exalted in the media at a time when Moz’ reputation is at an all-time low. A situation that just highlights and compounds the general misery of #1
   
   
3. He’s over-exposed now. For an indie guitarist, he is absolutely everywhere and it gets tiresome, he’s even flogging shoes. He can’t particularly sing, he can’t write lyrics, even his fans acknowledge that - and yet he’s become a ‘bulletproof’ figure in the Press, just because The Singer is seen as so awful. It leaves a bad taste.

I don’t think JM created or ever intended this set of circumstances – ultimately he’s not responsible for what another adult says and does, and he has a right to pursue his own career. Even so, it’s hard to look at the current situation and not think that he has benefited very heavily from the Fall of Moz. Too heavily. And where he could have tried to balance the narrative a bit (‘the one good Smith’ etc etc), he didn’t. He watched M being publicly mauled and eventually, he joined in - knowing just how much it would hurt and doing it just to please idiots on Twitter. I love Johnny but even for me, that's hard to take.

 

[Anonymous]

As far as I can see, 3 major things have contributed to the “Marr hatred” on here.

1. The Great Estrangement with Moz, the general froideur between them and the cattiness that some fans seem to be absorbing. That situation should be heartbreaking for Smiths fans, I don’t understand how anyone could possibly enjoy it.
   
   
2. The bizarre circumstance of JM going solo late in life and suddenly becoming visible / being exalted in the media at a time when Moz’ reputation is at an all-time low. A situation that just highlights and compounds the general misery of #1
   
   
3. He’s over-exposed now. For an indie guitarist, he is absolutely everywhere and it gets tiresome, he’s even flogging shoes. He can’t particularly sing, he can’t write lyrics, even his fans acknowledge that - and yet he’s become a ‘bulletproof’ figure in the Press, just because The Singer is seen as so awful. It leaves a bad taste.

I don’t think JM created or ever intended this set of circumstances – ultimately he’s not responsible for what another adult says and does, and he has a right to pursue his own career. Even so, it’s hard to look at the current situation and not think that he has benefited very heavily from the Fall of Moz. Too heavily. And where he could have tried to balance the narrative a bit (‘the one good Smith’ etc etc), he didn’t. He watched M being publicly mauled and eventually, he joined in - knowing just how much it would hurt and doing it just to please idiots on Twitter. I love Johnny but even for me, that's hard to take.

I don't see it as Johnny piling on with everyone else. I see it as the truth about Morrissey and the Smiths finally coming out. And how many articles in the past about the Smiths have we seen where it was all about Morrissey, where Johnny was maybe mentioned once or twice along with Mike and Andy? Johnny was the architect of the Smiths and wrote all the music. He deserves the acknowledgement now and he's worked hard for all of it. I don't see why anyone should begrudge him his current success and high profile.

 

[Amy]

I don't see it as Johnny piling on with everyone else. I see it as the truth about Morrissey and the Smiths finally coming out. And how many articles in the past about the Smiths have we seen where it was all about Morrissey, where Johnny was maybe mentioned once or twice along with Mike and Andy? Johnny was the architect of the Smiths and wrote all the music. He deserves the acknowledgement now and he's worked hard for all of it. I don't see why anyone should begrudge him his current success and high profile.

What truth is that?

I'm not begrudging Johnny's success - like I said, he didn't choose the timing or circumstances. He's a great guitar player and if there were even an ounce of goodwill between him and Moz, I think most Smiths fans would be on cloud 9 - we can and go and see them both tour, buy two sets of albums, there wouldn't be any of this 'team' nonsense.

It's not like that though. Johnny has benefited from Moz being enormously 'out of favour', and he has undoubtedly added fuel to that fire by stoking up the Twitter mob. Fans all over social media were routinely saying things like, "Thank God one of The Smiths isn't a bellend", "#TeamMarr" (and much worse) - and not once did he ever step in to say "Hang on guys, that's not what The Smiths were about, we were a partnership." He just soaked up the attention, changed his profile pic to one from the Simpsons sketch, let his stupid son pour petrol on the situation... he absolutely joined in. Even when Moz was riding high in the media (with Quarry for example) - he wasn't sitting there smirking at the failure of Boomslang, he was still praising Johnny.