Mark E Smith RIP

RIP you crazy bastard

---

UPDATE Jan. 27:

Perhaps someone has more details on the influence of The Fall on Morrissey. I recall songs from The Fall were played as intermission music before Morrissey shows (according to this YouTube playlist, "Living Too Late" in 2017 and this playlist, "Lie Dream of a Casino Soul" in 1995). Also, this excerpt posted by Uncleskinny from "The Rise, The Fall, and The Rise" by Brix Smith Start (original article from Oct. 2016):

Mark had been losing patience with Rough Trade and decided we had to look for a new record label. There were a few reasons Mark had soured on them, but the main one was that The Smiths had arrived. This was a huge bone of contention. When he was younger, Morrissey used to write Mark long, fawning letters. Mark has them all saved. Morrissey was obsessed with The Fall and Mark. Mark would never call him Morrissey and would refer to him by his first name, Steven. The rumour was that they named themselves The Smiths after Mark, and that they loved The Fall so much they wanted to be on Rough Trade. One of their first gigs was supporting us.
...
It never even dawned on me that our smoking may have set off the alarm. As we were hurrying down the stairs to evacuate the hotel I ran into Morrissey. By this point I was having a full-blown anxiety attack, bordering on panic. The alarm was blaring and I was desperate to find Mark. I asked him, ‘Have you seen Mark?’ Morrissey responded in a dry, mean tone: ‘He’s probably upstairs, burning up in the fire.’ He thought it was funny, but I had no sense of humour right then. I was really worried about Mark’s wellbeing. I never spoke to Morrissey again. He was always so unfriendly, prickly and weird, whereas Johnny Marr was the loveliest, most friendly, genuine person.




Also, The Fall are #8 in Morrissey's Headful Of Heroes (NME, Sep. 16, 1989) - "Moanchester, so much to answer for":

 

[ninetimesfined]

Really not sure I agree. What makes you say that? Apart from, obviously, he may prefer not to be dead.

It’s really about the nature of MES’ character. He hated the whole nostalgia thing that

Really not sure I agree. What makes you say that? Apart from, obviously, he may prefer not to be dead.

I just think he’d consider it crass that people listen to his music after he’s dead. He hated nostalgia. He hated inward looking. He was a forward thinking motherf***er.

 

[gordyboy9]

Absolutely. That's fair enough.

your very lucky to like every band that's ever been formed because if you don't like one of them then your the same as me.

 

[Peterb]

Gordyboy, I wasn't being sarcastic.
It was meant to be a bit of support and empathy.
This demonstrates a limitation of social media that I find frustrating. It's very easy to be misunderstood.
I hope I am the same as you in this respect.

 

[davidt]

I can understand why it's on the 'Other Music' forum - just not why it's the headline story on the main page of 'Morrissey Solo' - the connection is tenuous at best.

Perhaps someone has more details on the influence of The Fall on Morrissey. I recall songs from The Fall were played as intermission music before Morrissey shows (according to this YouTube playlist, "Living Too Late" in 2017 and this playlist, "Lie Dream of a Casino Soul" in 1995). Also, this excerpt posted by Uncleskinny from "The Rise, The Fall, and The Rise" by Brix Smith Start (original article from Oct. 2016):

Mark had been losing patience with Rough Trade and decided we had to look for a new record label. There were a few reasons Mark had soured on them, but the main one was that The Smiths had arrived. This was a huge bone of contention. When he was younger, Morrissey used to write Mark long, fawning letters. Mark has them all saved. Morrissey was obsessed with The Fall and Mark. Mark would never call him Morrissey and would refer to him by his first name, Steven. The rumour was that they named themselves The Smiths after Mark, and that they loved The Fall so much they wanted to be on Rough Trade. One of their first gigs was supporting us.
...
It never even dawned on me that our smoking may have set off the alarm. As we were hurrying down the stairs to evacuate the hotel I ran into Morrissey. By this point I was having a full-blown anxiety attack, bordering on panic. The alarm was blaring and I was desperate to find Mark. I asked him, ‘Have you seen Mark?’ Morrissey responded in a dry, mean tone: ‘He’s probably upstairs, burning up in the fire.’ He thought it was funny, but I had no sense of humour right then. I was really worried about Mark’s wellbeing. I never spoke to Morrissey again. He was always so unfriendly, prickly and weird, whereas Johnny Marr was the loveliest, most friendly, genuine person.




Also, The Fall are #8 in Morrissey's Headful Of Heroes (NME, Sep. 16, 1989) - "Moanchester, so much to answer for":

 

[URBANUS]

especially if you listen to just the Cure.










DOCUMENTAL REALLY ... M.E.S !!!!






<>
. . .

I cannot believe how much he sounds like Paul in the opening interview, a man who worked for the Kray's who ended up in Stretford and lived above Lou Macari's chippy. A very nice man who was a bit bullied around there and I bought an old United shirt he had.

He folded the large banner given to me by Ian and the lads so I could fit it in my suitcase and take back to Sweden.

There, I've said it not that anyone asked for it.

 

[URBANUS]

Perhaps someone has more details on the influence of The Fall on Morrissey. I recall songs from The Fall were played as intermission music before Morrissey shows (according to this YouTube playlist, "Living Too Late" in 2017 and this playlist, "Lie Dream of a Casino Soul" in 1995). Also, this excerpt posted by Uncleskinny from "The Rise, The Fall, and The Rise" by Brix Smith Start (original article from Oct. 2016):

Mark had been losing patience with Rough Trade and decided we had to look for a new record label. There were a few reasons Mark had soured on them, but the main one was that The Smiths had arrived. This was a huge bone of contention. When he was younger, Morrissey used to write Mark long, fawning letters. Mark has them all saved. Morrissey was obsessed with The Fall and Mark. Mark would never call him Morrissey and would refer to him by his first name, Steven. The rumour was that they named themselves The Smiths after Mark, and that they loved The Fall so much they wanted to be on Rough Trade. One of their first gigs was supporting us.
...
It never even dawned on me that our smoking may have set off the alarm. As we were hurrying down the stairs to evacuate the hotel I ran into Morrissey. By this point I was having a full-blown anxiety attack, bordering on panic. The alarm was blaring and I was desperate to find Mark. I asked him, ‘Have you seen Mark?’ Morrissey responded in a dry, mean tone: ‘He’s probably upstairs, burning up in the fire.’ He thought it was funny, but I had no sense of humour right then. I was really worried about Mark’s wellbeing. I never spoke to Morrissey again. He was always so unfriendly, prickly and weird, whereas Johnny Marr was the loveliest, most friendly, genuine person.




Also, The Fall are #8 in Morrissey's Headful Of Heroes (NME, Sep. 16, 1989) - "Moanchester, so much to answer for":

SUB: Duncan Edwards.

That is class!

I still have that paper cutout of that Morrissey picture framed somewhere. Morrissey, you've been framed.

 

[Cornflakes]

It’s really about the nature of MES’ character. He hated the whole nostalgia thing that


I just think he’d consider it crass that people listen to his music after he’s dead. He hated nostalgia. He hated inward looking. He was a forward thinking motherf***er.

Not really convinced. How many 60s cover versions did he do?

 

[Anonymous]

the Fall have really always been the impenetrable wall for me. They’re the curate’s egg.

Someone said to John Peel that they were not sure whether they like the Fall’s music but know they like the Fall. That’s very much where I sit, I think. I’ve read Renegade and I love who he is and what he does. Perhaps their amazing back catalogue is perhaps a bit too prolific.

I have tried once again since the sad passing of their ringleader - but I know MES would really hate that people were getting into them posthumously.

The Fall are a bit like PJ Harvey. An act that has been declared cool, so if you want to appear cool, you must declare your love. He was certainly an interesting, amusing and quirky chap. But was he actually a decent songwriter? Could he write fantastic melodies? Popcorn Double Feature aside, has anyone ever found themselves whistling the chorus of a Fall song?

 

[URBANUS]

The Fall are a bit like PJ Harvey. An act that has been declared cool, so if you want to appear cool, you must declare your love. He was certainly an interesting, amusing and quirky chap. But was he actually a decent songwriter? Could he write fantastic melodies? Popcorn Double Feature aside, has anyone ever found themselves whistling the chorus of a Fall song?

I knew a softie like you would show up here eventually. It was not about love or claiming every song was great. Most people liked a few songs here and there but those songs felt unique somehow. I find myself singing their songs now and then as I leave whistling to softies like yourself.

Now go off to the market stall cause it is falling over from a bit of wind and you might miss the latest episode of Eastenders should you have to pick up all those apples all by yourself you uni reject.

 

[URBANUS]

I can't stand people putting words in peoples mouths. No one ever claimed The Fall played cool music but Mark the singer was pretty cool. That is what the snowflake generation men will never get and of course they feel alarmed when a grown white man puts them in their place and the young ones feel all violated and cry about it on social media.

The state of young men today.......

 

[ninetimesfined]

The Fall are a bit like PJ Harvey. An act that has been declared cool, so if you want to appear cool, you must declare your love. He was certainly an interesting, amusing and quirky chap. But was he actually a decent songwriter? Could he write fantastic melodies? Popcorn Double Feature aside, has anyone ever found themselves whistling the chorus of a Fall song?

Bought their Stories From... (PJ Harvey) album in the early nougties, didn’t feel very cool. She was just a good looking West Country chick that dated Nick Cave to me. The music was alright.

I think the appeal (of the Fall) is in the realism of it all and be attitude of the lead singer. I would probably rather sit there and watch an hour’s documentary about the band, without knowing a lot of their music, than listen to three or four of their albums. It’s a bit like the way the Happy Mondays were portrayed in ten movie 24 Hour Party People. ‘Shaun Ryder is as prolific as WB Yeats on an average day’. That could be the case for MES as well. The guy didn’t give a f*** about anything.

 

[Peterb]

The Fall are a bit like PJ Harvey. An act that has been declared cool, so if you want to appear cool, you must declare your love. He was certainly an interesting, amusing and quirky chap. But was he actually a decent songwriter? Could he write fantastic melodies? Popcorn Double Feature aside, has anyone ever found themselves whistling the chorus of a Fall song?

I wouldn't say the ability to whistle something is any measure of how good a composer is. After all, would you hum to Captain Beefheart, John Cage or Stockhausen (to name but a few)?
But I take your 'bandwagon' point.
It doesn't seem like he was a particularly nice person.
But who cares about that, he made great records.
(Sounds like someone else we know).

 

[q89747]

I can't stand people putting words in peoples mouths. No one ever claimed The Fall played cool music but Mark the singer was pretty cool. That is what the snowflake generation men will never get and of course they feel alarmed when a grown white man puts them in their place and the young ones feel all violated and cry about it on social media.

The state of young men today.......

From MES interview in Volume #4: "The Fall," Mark E Smith once said phlegmatically through a blue cloud of cigarette smoke into a nearby tape recorder, "have always been a cool group."
http://www.thefall.org/news/000620.html

 

[URBANUS]

From MES interview in Volume #4: "The Fall," Mark E Smith once said phlegmatically through a blue cloud of cigarette smoke into a nearby tape recorder, "have always been a cool group."
http://www.thefall.org/news/000620.html

Nowhere near as cool as Mark and he WAS the group just like Morrissey was The Smiths despite some talent added here and there.

You could never find it in you to care about anyone else in The Fall or The Smiths and if you did it was because you were a boring musician who wanted to play the same way and we all know musicians never have any taste in music or interest in what makes it art.

Musicians and mathematicians I feel really sorry for and Mark struggled to know any notes or anything and could barely recognise an A and an E.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Not really convinced. How many 60s cover versions did he do?

but it's what he did with them.

 

[Cornflakes]

but it's what he did with them.

What did he do with them? Did he commit them to memory as a tiny child so that he'd be able to sing them twenty or thirty years later without ever breaking his golden rule of never listening to music from the past?

My general impression of Mark E Smith is that he was more opposed to people talking codswallop. Unless it was him doing the talking, possibly,

 

[URBANUS]

From MES interview in Volume #4: "The Fall," Mark E Smith once said phlegmatically through a blue cloud of cigarette smoke into a nearby tape recorder, "have always been a cool group."
http://www.thefall.org/news/000620.html

Mark was the band and HE made them cool just like Moz did with The Smiths. Mark said a lot of things tongue-in-cheek.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

What did he do with them? Did he commit them to memory as a tiny child so that he'd be able to sing them twenty or thirty years later without ever breaking his golden rule of never listening to music from the past?

My general impression of Mark E Smith is that he was more opposed to people talking codswallop. Unless it was him doing the talking, possibly,

Cornflakes get soggy if they sit in the milk too long, FACT !

'without ever breaking his golden rule of never listening to music from the past?'

his golden rule? Just saying it's my take that the way he covered these 'old' songs, just with the way he sang, Is to me and could be to others looked at as being 'forward thinking'. Who doesn't get nostalgic anyways? they must have... ice water for blood.

 

[Cornflakes]

Cornflakes get soggy if they sit in the milk too long, FACT !

True, but they still taste great.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

.


"Propositions are integrated within/Gen up to electric dog status/We pat you on the back/Your ears prick up/We call you Hitler/And then kick you around like homogenized milk."







He reads books; of the list book club
And after two months--his stance a familiar hunch
It's that same slouch - you had the last time he came around


His oppression abounds, his type is doing the rounds
He is a scum-egg; a horrid trendy wretch


C.R.E.E.P. C.

Black saucers at the back of your neck
Interruptions, from the side when you talk
in the presence, of this ugly gawk,
is offending, make sure you're not absorbed
(With hideous luck - he'll absorb all your talk)


CR E.E.P. C.R.E.E.P.


From the bright sun, he came one fine morn
"Populist" - as well in his class at least
But then came real age, and for that we all must pay
(and for that we all do pay)


C.R.E.E.P. C.R.E.E.P.

And he wants world peace! (and for that we all must pay)

He likes ABC!

C.R.E.E.P. C.R.E.E.P.








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