Lyrics of the four new songs

Pokey

Member
Exactly. Anger is fine and expected and very healthy, but for f***’s sake. Don’t direct it at the bloody mourners, you absolute lunatic. It’s as if he’s trying desperately to annihilate his career and his reputation.
And strong point regarding Suffer Little Children. Sure, he wrote that song 40 years ago, but still. Hard to think it’s the same guy.

I sort of understand where he's coming from. Thinking a song like that is just a really odd choice to honour the dead yet thousands are singing away. Maybe having a go at 'peformative mourning' where he thinks they're more just there for the spectacle of a music gig than anything else deeper than that. Its a cynical view, but it is Morrissey here.

The lyrical decline is pretty immense though. He's really leaning heavily into not just shortened lyrics but almost identical verses save switching a couple of words around.
 

Geoffrey Ingram

Active Member
Does he though?
I would love to hear the Gallaghers’ take on these lyrics. It makes them look like heroes. Imagine calling mourners “morons”, what an absolute misfire by the old Mozzer.
He is not criticizing the actual song or the Gallaghers. But the choice of song sung by "mourners" - mourners who 99.3% had no personal involvement with the incident (I mean related to the people who were killed) and who forced that song upon the rest of the public into having it as the anthem for the tragedy. Were the victims families asked if they wanted that song? How did the victims families respond when they were "told" they weren't to look back in anger by folk who meant well but missed the point?
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
I sort of understand where he's coming from. Thinking a song like that is just a really odd choice to honour the dead yet thousands are singing away. Maybe having a go at 'peformative mourning' where he thinks they're more just there for the spectacle of a music gig than anything else deeper than that. Its a cynical view, but it is Morrissey here.

Yes, most likely his view point. Where some have
taken and interpreted the Oasis song as a song of solace, it can also be interpreted as a ‘forgive and forget’ song.


 

Mike Rourke

Well-Known Member
The lyrics to 'Bonfire...' and 'Telephone...' are on a par with the irate letters angry old gammons write to their local papers. I bought tickets to Brixton but seriously thinking I will sell them if this is the set he brings to the UK. I can honestly imagine his own fans booing him if he starts up 'Bonfire' over here.
Guilty, m'lud.
 

skull

Active Member
Exactly. Anger is fine and expected and very healthy, but for f***’s sake. Don’t direct it at the bloody mourners, you absolute lunatic. It’s as if he’s trying desperately to annihilate his career and his reputation.
And strong point regarding Suffer Little Children. Sure, he wrote that song 40 years ago, but still. Hard to think it’s the same guy.
I don't think Morrissey is directing his anger to the mourners. Here, as he often explained, he criticizes an "attitude", I think. He is using the title song "don't look back in anger" ironically, with no intended reference to attack anybody, even less the Oasis, but a western attitude of mind to forgive, excuse, explain, understand the reasons of a killer. He just says: stand still against these things, don't forget, don't forgive. Or at least this is my take of the song, which I like.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
I don't think Morrissey is directing his anger to the mourners. Here, as he often explained, he criticizes an "attitude", I think. He is using the title song "don't look back in anger" ironically, with no intended reference to attack anybody, even less the Oasis, but a western attitude of mind to forgive, excuse, explain, understand the reasons of a killer. He just says: stand still against these things, don't forget, don't forgive. Or at least this is my take of the song, which I like.
I’m sure you like your take. I don’t agree, however. You call the mourners ‘morons’ and you come across as a massive prick with no empathy, who quite obviously is attacking the mourners. It’s that easy. And maybe that’s not what he intended, maybe he’s just shit at writing lyrics and conveying what he feels.

And I don’t think the point of the mourners using DLBIA was to say ‘we give up, we surrender to terror, let’s forgive and forget’. It’s just a hopeful, anthemic and comforting song from what could arguably be Manchester’s most beloved (and missed) band, easy to rally around and sing along to. They could’ve chosen Live Forever, I guess, but I think it worked out quite well.
 

SuedeMoz

Well-Known Member
Exactly. Anger is fine and expected and very healthy, but for f***’s sake. Don’t direct it at the bloody mourners, you absolute lunatic. It’s as if he’s trying desperately to annihilate his career and his reputation.
And strong point regarding Suffer Little Children. Sure, he wrote that song 40 years ago, but still. Hard to think it’s the same guy.

Yes, and he seems to want praise and credit as though he's revealing some profound truth that only he knows. It's hard not to see it as a blatant attempt to wind people up and court controversy... but what else is new? Truly a lost opportunity to create Suffer Little Children II - meaning a song done with sympathy, insight, and sensitivity.
 

Mike Rourke

Well-Known Member
Yes, and he seems to want praise and credit as though he's revealing some profound truth that only he knows. It's hard not to see it as a blatant attempt to wind people up and court controversy... but what else is new? Truly a lost opportunity to create Suffer Little Children II - meaning a song done with sympathy, insight, and sensitivity.
Yep, the lyrics to Bonfire are some way beyond my worst-case scenario. I was also hoping, if deludedly, for something as deft and empathetic as Suffer Little Children. A shame the album is named after such a clumsy song. Hopefully, it's not too late to change the album title...
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Yes, and he seems to want praise and credit as though he's revealing some profound truth that only he knows. It's hard not to see it as a blatant attempt to wind people up and court controversy... but what else is new? Truly a lost opportunity to create Suffer Little Children II - meaning a song done with sympathy, insight, and sensitivity.
I don’t think the endgame is controversy. I’m afraid this is actually, truly what he feels.
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
Yes, and he seems to want praise and credit as though he's revealing some profound truth that only he knows.
How did you SuedeMoz, come to that conclusion?
It's hard not to see it as a blatant attempt to wind people up and court controversy... but what else is new?
Well there’s nothing new about folks seeing it that way on solo.
Truly a lost opportunity to create Suffer Little Children II - meaning a song done with sympathy, insight, and sensitivity.

Let’s remember, some at the time didn’t view Suffer that way and condemned it.

I also don’t feel that Morrissey cares to repeat a style of writing, a style that represents someone or something that he may no longer relate to or wants to repeat.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
He is not criticizing the actual song or the Gallaghers. But the choice of song sung by "mourners" - mourners who 99.3% had no personal involvement with the incident (I mean related to the people who were killed) and who forced that song upon the rest of the public into having it as the anthem for the tragedy. Were the victims families asked if they wanted that song? How did the victims families respond when they were "told" they weren't to look back in anger by folk who meant well but missed the point?
No one forced everyone to gather and sing together. Manchester is not North Korea. These people spontaneously sang along with someone who started singing this song which offered comfort and solidarity. This is what Moz is mocking, a collective grief. You don’t have to know the victims to mourn, you just have to have empathy.
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
I don’t think the endgame is controversy.

(y) then again, controversy at every corner, no matter what he does or doesn’t do. He can’t win.

I’m afraid this is actually, truly what he feels.

It’s natural to be frightened when another’s
opinions are different than one’s own and expressed so strongly, especially in song.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
It’s natural to be frightened when another’s
opinions are different than one’s own and expressed so strongly, especially in song.
He has never expressed an opinion as piss-poorly as he does in that awful song.

And even though “I’m afraid” is a turn of phrase and does not mean that the speaker is actually afraid or scared, I do get ill at ease from the enormous and almost pathological lack of empathy for victims and mourners expressed in this song.
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
He has never expressed an opinion as piss-poorly as he does in that awful song.

It’s subjective, so yes, you have a right to that opinion. But remember, not everyone feels that way.


I do get ill at ease from the enormous and almost pathological lack of empathy for victims and mourners expressed in this song.

What was Morrissey’s goal in the song?
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
It’s subjective, so yes, you have a right to that opinion. But remember, not everyone feels that way.




What was Morrissey’s goal in the song?
Of course.

Probably to add to his image as an Edge Lord. Or perhaps to further mutilate his career? Who knows.
 

HumpbackWhale

New Member
As I mention on the other thread after a few listens I am mostly positive in my reactions to the new songs. I think it's a mistake to try and judge the whole LP by 4 , short songs. Especially considering the producer of the lp, tends to leave his mark

That being said, as songs I liked them. You can certainly work out the lyrics and the singing and the singing style and basic melody (though you have to remember Art hounds and Crashing Bores were almost mortally injured in the studio)

I adore I live In Oblivion and really liked Rebels Without Applause, one a remarkable unflinching look at old age, and it seems Alzheimer's and the horrific way old people are treated like children, men that were strong and lived life at full speed are reduced to nothing and are offered no respect, often treated like babies

A remarkable subject for a pop song and a reminder of why M is so needed. While Marr, for instance, and his rock mates deal in outdated rock language and hippy spirituality M grabs at real life
This song was like an angrier version of some of Cherry Ghosts' songs (they are a fellow Manchester band)

The other song Rebels With.. is a love letter to music and the bands he loved and how sadly they have all but gone.

I liked the other two songs as well.
Sure Enough, The Telephone Rings, is, on the one hand, M doing his, nobody contacts him unless its for money routine- could he also be attacking vermin charity callers who ask for money? He comments (to them) " tell the children they are in hell now" could mean Manchester victims, or whatever (though could be about all sorts ).

This leads us to the title track, Bonfire - which is the second lp title track in a row that is, to me, one of the weaker songs.
Much like Dog On A Chain, I understand completely where he's coming from and relate and agree in a number of ways but much like that song one gets the impression M has become quite a shallow and empty person, who is blinded by ego, anger and reduced by bitterness, in art if not in life

To me he spends most of the song being sarcastic to the coping choices of the families and onlookers. Not the most enlightened approach.
Its amusing to me he seems riddled with jealousy that Manchester picked an Oasis song, as their song of choice to help them heal. Liam G also got involved to try and help, to much praise .
I expect M wanted so dearly There Is A Light to be the song of choice -remember this is someone who tried to have Paris reissued to go along with the Paris killings

For people not from England, you need to know M didn't do ONE thing to help, after the bombing, as far as I know. Unlike Liam and the Queen (the woman was about 94 at the time). Morrissey isn't the most heroic person and you just know he would be scared to death to be so scathing about the "Don't look back in anger" thing, in front of Liam. M is a man who is very cutting about people, once they have left the room

His comments about the Manchester bombing being the UK's 9/11 are way off ( as i mentioned 9/11 was USA's first homeland attack, the UK has had many such attacks, including IRA bombings and nightly air raids by the Germans)

As an English person, his attacking the NHS is a bit much, this seemed to start after his mum died. It's a bit much, as he is loaded and rich, he could have paid for his mum's medical bills and gone private, why didn't he?

That said, I love the NHS and what it stands for, but it's not perfect and one should be able to cast a comment - why he mentioned the NHS to a room full of yanks, I do not know- they probably thought he was on about a Hockey league

I hope people do not think I'm attacking M, I'm not really. I love the guy. I'm going to 4 nights in Vegas, I just get disappointed when he doesn't quite reach the standards he once did, in regard to his views. As I say my thought in general of the new songs is positive.
In fact its only Bonifre that leaves a bad taste and that isn't "bad"

I was so impressed by I live In Oblivion, I forgive the more negative stuff, anyway. Looking forward to hearing more
thanks for the insights, really interesting to read your notes and all.
 

HumpbackWhale

New Member
Agreed, it's going to backfire badly. I think it's clear what he's getting at (huge anger is a normal response) - but it's just expressed so clumsily. Given such a serious, personal topic, he could have expanded on his 'anger' a bit more - but the song just sort of peters out. He says it's England's 9/11 and then gives it a crass title and 2 very half-arsed verses. The sheer difference in effort between this and 'Suffer Little Children' -where he sketches the whole story of the abductions, the families grieving and Hindley's guilt in prison - is incredible. Did he really have nothing more to say?
yes, he just repeats whateve he sang in the first verse in the second verse....when there could be much more wordplay and innuendos.
 

HumpbackWhale

New Member
I sort of understand where he's coming from. Thinking a song like that is just a really odd choice to honour the dead yet thousands are singing away. Maybe having a go at 'peformative mourning' where he thinks they're more just there for the spectacle of a music gig than anything else deeper than that. Its a cynical view, but it is Morrissey here.

The lyrical decline is pretty immense though. He's really leaning heavily into not just shortened lyrics but almost identical verses save switching a couple of words around.
yes, I feel the same about the lyrics...semm lazy and repetitive, even if sung beautifully
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Or not? Right?


So you and others can’t see what his feelings are that he’s expressing in the song?
His feelings are obviously anger. But he’s directing that anger at the mourners, calling them morons and saying they’re silly. By doing this, he shows us that he is appallingly cynical and crude and that he severely lacks empathy.

The lyrics are as blunt as a baseball bat to the head. There are no hidden layers here.
 
Top Bottom