Love Music Hate Racism event by Dave Haslam - Manchester, same night Morrissey plays (July 8, 2018)

Anonymous · Jul 1, 2018

Guys.. do you think he's that bothered about scaling back?? He's said loads of times he was amazed to have a solo career more than two albums after the Smiths

Also you are forgetting that regardless of his reputation in Britain, he is adored in Latin America and other places around the globe, has homes in England, Rome, Paris, LA.. so he has places to play and doesn't need the money

I think it's interesting that Morrissey has reminded the public in interviews time and time again that he's not great company .. "I'm really really not.. seriously".. I think that's about his person and an honest appraisal, and he doesn't ingratiate with other humans particularly, and in 2018 with social media his diversive opinions incubate and flourish.. he probably gets off on that a bit?

Some of his comments are being taken out of context IMO. Not deliberately, but because of the way he lays the petals down. He has an unorthodox way of communicating. As a person with a long term knowledge of Morrisseys' views he is someone who can blend absolute forthright earnest honesty with hyperbole and sarcasm. The halal comment is an example. He says halal can only be certified by supporters of ISIS. Obviously he doesn't mean this literally but I know what he's getting at : he's alluding to the Muslim support of slitting the throats of humans and animals as being a doctrine. I do understand that those who haven't listened to him all these years are naturally like WTF? It's an unusual way of trying to articulate a serious point mixed in with some hyperbole and that throws people off... (also possibly a regional thing, I'm from the NW UK and it's a trait I've noted in Liverpudlian and Mancunians). I don't know if it's deliberate, but it's a constant feature!

He also seems to be clearly playing the media. I suspect his rooting for For Britain is underpinned by his beliefs in animal welfare and british identity... with a dose of trolling perhaps. Probably gets a buzz off a media shit storm up after having had crap written about him many times. Does he give a damn? Will his cat treat him any differently... No? OK probably not too much then..

Fact is he has never IMO said anything overtly` racist, despite being labeled as such since the 1980s.. and this is where it gets complicated because 1) he's a sensitive bloke who can react badly to criticism 2) he's not clearly on the left or right of the political spectrum he's all over the shop. He championed Bernie Sanders and said he would assassinate Donald Trump .. Right wing extremist.. really??

Some people are complex and it seems like a lot of people are jumping the gun based on a few (perhaps in-part deliberate "couldn't resist") ill judged statements.. He's being openly called a racist now - as he was before he previously silenced critics in the courts, but there's still no actually no evidence for it. Evidence that he pops out comments that cause the a media shitstorm.. sure... but is he a politician or a musician ..

I'll see what he says or does next.. I'd like to hear whether he understands the legal basis on which Tommy Robinson was imprisoned, and various statements Waters has made. I suspect Mozzers next move will be more 'toying', a few absolute statements and a few zingers thrown in to keep you guessing. I know this. He has previously expressed the preference and thus intent to answer questions 'differently' in ways to get you thinking.

[WRT Haslam I believe he might think he's about love peace and harmony, but actually what he's done is create more diversiveness, revelled in causing injury, misery for people who wanted to hear the music, and subliminally saw an opportunity to get his name blazing in social media and the papers. He could have actually instigated a physical confrontation though, that would be a logistical problem. Seems that organising a physical event with the potential to create hostility is on a worse level than somebody just expressing views that if you are that intolerant of, would be best dealt with by being ignored... ]

Anonymous · Jul 1, 2018

Guys.. do you think he's that bothered about scaling back?? He's said loads of times he was amazed to have a solo career more than two albums after the Smiths

Also you are forgetting that regardless of his reputation in Britain, he is adored in Latin America and other places around the globe, has homes in England, Rome, Paris, LA.. so he has places to play and doesn't need the money

I think it's interesting that Morrissey has reminded the public in interviews time and time again that he's not great company .. "I'm really really not.. seriously".. I think that's about his person and an honest appraisal, and he doesn't ingratiate with other humans particularly, and in 2018 with social media his diversive opinions incubate and flourish.. he probably gets off on that a bit?

Some of his comments are being taken out of context IMO. Not deliberately, but because of the way he lays the petals down. He has an unorthodox way of communicating. As a person with a long term knowledge of Morrisseys' views he is someone who can blend absolute forthright earnest honesty with hyperbole and sarcasm. The halal comment is an example. He says halal can only be certified by supporters of ISIS. Obviously he doesn't mean this literally but I know what he's getting at : he's alluding to the Muslim support of slitting the throats of humans and animals as being a doctrine. I do understand that those who haven't listened to him all these years are naturally like WTF? It's an unusual way of trying to articulate a serious point mixed in with some hyperbole and that throws people off... (also possibly a regional thing, I'm from the NW UK and it's a trait I've noted in Liverpudlian and Mancunians). I don't know if it's deliberate, but it's a constant feature!

He also seems to be clearly playing the media. I suspect his rooting for For Britain is underpinned by his beliefs in animal welfare and british identity... with a dose of trolling perhaps. Probably gets a buzz off a media shit storm up after having had crap written about him many times. Does he give a damn? Will his cat treat him any differently... No? OK probably not too much then..

Fact is he has never IMO said anything overtly` racist, despite being labeled as such since the 1980s.. and this is where it gets complicated because 1) he's a sensitive bloke who can react badly to criticism 2) he's not clearly on the left or right of the political spectrum he's all over the shop. He championed Bernie Sanders and said he would assassinate Donald Trump .. Right wing extremist.. really??

Some people are complex and it seems like a lot of people are jumping the gun based on a few (perhaps in-part deliberate "couldn't resist") ill judged statements.. He's being openly called a racist now - as he was before he previously silenced critics in the courts, but there's still no actually no evidence for it. Evidence that he pops out comments that cause the a media shitstorm.. sure... but is he a politician or a musician ..

I'll see what he says or does next.. I'd like to hear whether he understands the legal basis on which Tommy Robinson was imprisoned, and various statements Waters has made. I suspect Mozzers next move will be more 'toying', a few absolute statements and a few zingers thrown in to keep you guessing. I know this. He has previously expressed the preference and thus intent to answer questions 'differently' in ways to get you thinking.

[WRT Haslam I believe he might think he's about love peace and harmony, but actually what he's done is create more diversiveness, revelled in causing injury, misery for people who wanted to hear the music, and subliminally saw an opportunity to get his name blazing in social media and the papers. He could have actually instigated a physical confrontation though, that would be a logistical problem. Seems that organising a physical event with the potential to create hostility is on a worse level than somebody just expressing views that if you are that intolerant of, would be best dealt with by being ignored... ]

scatterkeir · Jul 1, 2018

Let's say I organised a jumble sale once, it had the potential to create hostility, there could have been a fight there. I should have just gone round saying everyone called Adrian should be tortured to death, because organising a physical event with the potential to creat hostility is on a worse level than just expressing views that if you are intolerant of would be best dealt with by being ignored.

Anonymous · Jul 1, 2018

Can you repeat that in English? Jumble sale wot... ?

No need for metaphors

Just spit it out man

Anonymous · Jul 1, 2018

scatterkeir said:
Let's say I organised a jumble sale once, it had the potential to create hostility, there could have been a fight there. I should have just gone round saying everyone called Adrian should be tortured to death, because organising a physical event with the potential to creat hostility is on a worse level than just expressing views that if you are intolerant of would be best dealt with by being ignored.

Ludicrous, nonsensical argument. This is why the left usually just call people 'racist' instead of engaging in debate, because clear and rational thinking is not their forté, as you've just demonstrated.

Halloway · Jul 1, 2018

Anonymous said:
This is why the left usually just call people 'racist' instead of engaging in debate,

With racists, there usually isn't much of a debate. You get a lot of slippery dodging around and if you do manage to get anywhere, you mostly just end up uncovering some delusion or lie that feeds and informs the racist's prejudice.

reelfountain · Jul 1, 2018

Halloway said:
With racists, there usually isn't much of a debate. You get a lot of slippery dodging around and if you do manage to get anywhere, you mostly just end up uncovering some delusion or lie that feeds and informs the racist's prejudice.

You like to call people racists, but when they present you with facts like I did, you ignore them and say, oh, what facts, didn't notice them amongst all your bile?

There's your slippery dodging around for you.

Practice what you preach prick.

Halloway · Jul 1, 2018

reelfountain said:
You like to call people racists, but when they present you with facts like I did, you ignore them and say, oh, what facts, didn't notice them amongst all your bile?

There's your slippery dodging around for you.

Practice what you preach prick.

Facts? The problem is, what you think are 'facts' I consider to be bullshit/lies/delusion/opinion (delete as appropriate.)

And the verbal abuse rather gives the game away, don't you think?

reelfountain · Jul 1, 2018

Halloway said:
Facts? The problem is, what you think are 'facts' I consider to be bullshit/lies/delusion/opinion (delete as appropriate.)

And the verbal abuse rather gives the game away, don't you think?

You should open your mind. It's clenched tight.

Born to Harangue · Jul 2, 2018

Halloway said:
With racists, there usually isn't much of a debate. You get a lot of slippery dodging around and if you do manage to get anywhere, you mostly just end up uncovering some delusion or lie that feeds and informs the racist's prejudice.

This might be true because nobody is 100% accurate in everything they think and believe. We're all deluded to some extent, but after learning new information hopefully we can correct what we previously believed, which we may have been wrong about, and thereafter put some of those delusions to rest.

Yes, some right-wing people tell outright lies, as do a fair share of left-wing people. That a man can become a woman and be just as much a woman as a biological woman and vice-versa, to use one example (which flies in the face of scientific evidence), or that we can allow millions of 'refugees' into our countries and our economies will improve drastically and won't result in utter chaos, ethnic tensions and the rise in certain types of crime, when all the evidence says otherwise. These are liberal/left delusions (along with very weak 'conservatives' who care more about favourable press coverage and poll figures than principles and basic truths).

You won't admit it, but left wing thinking is also based on plenty of assumptions leading to non-empirical conclusions. UncleThinSkin is an apposite example here. Everything is about "hatred of brown people", everyone is motivated by 'racism', 'xenophobia' and whatever other invented pathologies. Not accepting that people can have fleshed out worldviews which are opposite to just about everything he thinks and aren't built around or motivated by hatred and other baser instincts.

It's looking at the world and thinking there must be a better way, and using that as a jumping off point to delve into the past and attempt to untangle the complexities surrounding how we got to this point. Instead of just accepting everything as it is so as not to risk giving offence to someone. You'd think being on the side of corporations and media conglomerates on just about every issue would give the 'left' pause, but apparently not. Ideologically, you have more in common with Starbucks now than you do with working class white people.

Untangling those complexities isn't the easiest thing to accomplish when the whole of the media, most of academia, most corporations - "woke capital" - and increasingly law enforcement are against you, but when something doesn't sit right with you about the way society is headed either you go against the grain and speak out about it or you lose all self-respect (in the short to medium term; you lose far more valuable things in the long run).

Left leaning people who believe they are in sole possession of the truth and hold a deeper and more nuanced understanding of the way the world works is part of their problem and could bring about their downfall if they're not careful. Don't underestimate your opposition, especially an opposition which has been put on the backfoot for a very long time and has had no option but to become incredibly thorough as a result.

Underestimate the wrong person and you'll get found out, because unlike you and Skinny we haven't had the luxury of being complacent.

reelfountain · Jul 2, 2018

I am the witchfinder general and I will make sure to find racism everywhere and in everyone!

Anonymous · Jul 2, 2018

deja vu all over again

MorrisseyGal · Jul 2, 2018

Of course it's free, they need the numbers to show up. All the chavs and people who have no idea what's going on will show up for the free party.

Haslam wants his 'Bob Geldof' moment lol. He's trying to be seen as a leader of this movement, get tons of publicity.

Morrissey may not have lived in Manchester for years but he still has connections there, he keeps up to date with everything going on.

In this advert everything Morrissey has said has been twisted. If only people looked at the full interviews Morrissey gave they would see the context in which these things were said.

It's a shame that Haslam is using Morrissey's name to get publicity for himself. Now that the concert is cancelled he's turned his attentions to Donald Trump (cue more tweets about Trump etc to get in the newspapers).

It's a shame that some people do these things, not because they actually care, they pretend to care but what it all is, is a big "look at me, look what I've done" fest.

MorrisseyGal · Jul 2, 2018

Nobody seems to be calling Scotland racist, they bang on about wanting their own country, break away from the rest of the UK and being proud to be Scottish etc and nobody says a word. If anyone in England says they're proud to be English and have concerns about grooming gangs & forced child marriages etc, they're branded racists.

Haslam wants as many numbers there as possible, that's why it's free. He had to use Morrissey's name to get himself in the press. Nobody cares about Haslam. Now the concert's been cancelled don't be surprised to see Haslam taking pot shots as Donald Trump for a bit of publicity and brownie points.

Todorić · Jul 2, 2018

Morrissey’s politics have never been entirely clear or obviously thought out. At times he has expressed the sentiment that he is a socialist, and in one mid-1990s interview he even flippantly claimed to ‘long for communism’. Certainly he is renowned as being fiercely anti-establishment and clearly republican. Part of this probably comes from his background growing up in an Irish immigrant family in the northern English city of Manchester. Throughout the 1980s he supported the IRA, wrote songs such as A Rush and a Push and the Land is Our, applauded IRA bombings such as the ‘unfortunately unsuccessful’ attempt to blow up the British Conservative Government at their annual party conference in Brighton, sung the wishful-thinking anti-Thatcher song Margaret on the Guillotine and released an album called The Queen is Dead.

Halloway · Jul 2, 2018

Born to Harangue said:
This might be true because nobody is 100% accurate in everything they think and believe. We're all deluded to some extent, but after learning new information hopefully we can correct what we previously believed, which we may have been wrong about, and thereafter put some of those delusions to rest.

Yes, some right-wing people tell outright lies, as do a fair share of left-wing people. That a man can become a woman and be just as much a woman as a biological woman and vice-versa, to use one example (which flies in the face of scientific evidence), or that we can allow millions of 'refugees' into our countries and our economies will improve drastically and won't result in utter chaos, ethnic tensions and the rise in certain types of crime, when all the evidence says otherwise. These are liberal/left delusions (along with very weak 'conservatives' who care more about favourable press coverage and poll figures than principles and basic truths).

You won't admit it, but left wing thinking is also based on plenty of assumptions leading to non-empirical conclusions. UncleThinSkin is an apposite example here. Everything is about "hatred of brown people", everyone is motivated by 'racism', 'xenophobia' and whatever other invented pathologies. Not accepting that people can have fleshed out worldviews which are opposite to just about everything he thinks and aren't built around or motivated by hatred and other baser instincts.

It's looking at the world and thinking there must be a better way, and using that as a jumping off point to delve into the past and attempt to untangle the complexities surrounding how we got to this point. Instead of just accepting everything as it is so as not to risk giving offence to someone. You'd think being on the side of corporations and media conglomerates on just about every issue would give the 'left' pause, but apparently not. Ideologically, you have more in common with Starbucks now than you do with working class white people.

Untangling those complexities isn't the easiest thing to accomplish when the whole of the media, most of academia, most corporations - "woke capital" - and increasingly law enforcement are against you, but when something doesn't sit right with you about the way society is headed either you go against the grain and speak out about it or you lose all self-respect (in the short to medium term; you lose far more valuable things in the long run).

Left leaning people who believe they are in sole possession of the truth and hold a deeper and more nuanced understanding of the way the world works is part of their problem and could bring about their downfall if they're not careful. Don't underestimate your opposition, especially an opposition which has been put on the backfoot for a very long time and has had no option but to become incredibly thorough as a result.

Underestimate the wrong person and you'll get found out, because unlike you and Skinny we haven't had the luxury of being complacent.

Did you cut and paste that from one of Jordan Peterson's diarrhoealogues?

Uncleskinny · Jul 8, 2018

George Clinton sends a message...

vegan.cro spirit# 342 · Jul 8, 2018

Halloway said:
With racists, there usually isn't much of a debate. You get a lot of slippery dodging around and if you do manage to get anywhere, you mostly just end up uncovering some delusion or lie that feeds and informs the racist's prejudice.

Odd how you and the Chezzer seem to think alike, and use the same type of vocabulary.
"Dodging" "Dodgy" is something very suspiciously Chezz like.
:sweet:

A special kind of rapport there between the two of you.

vegan.cro spirit# 342 · Jul 8, 2018

Uncleskinny said:
George Clinton sends a message...

GEORGE CLINTON O NO!!
what next? Gary Numan?

Anonymous · Jul 8, 2018

I wonder how many non white people show support at this snowflake disco ,methinks 10 % max

Love Music Hate Racism event by Dave Haslam - Manchester, same night Morrissey plays (July 8, 2018)

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