London - Wembley (Mar. 14, 2020) post-show fight thread

[Anonymous]

Do you actually know what's going on in the culture war today? Open your eyes. Historical tv dramas are using non-whites to pretend that Britain has always been this great multicultural melting pot. The left see classic authors as "too white" and BAME authors should replace them on curriculums. I'm afraid you're the one that's blinkered.

But Britain has been a multicultural melting pot since early 18th century.

Can you produce evidence or links to evidence regarding your too white curriculum authors? Being in the teaching profession I have never seen that and we still teach Hardy and Dickens amongst others to multicultural classes.

Turks from the Ottoman Empire were settled in Britain in the 18th century. Several British aristocrats converted to Islam and one of those made the first translation of the Quran into English.

More than 400.000 fought in the 1st world war and 2.5 million fought in the 2nd world war and the armed forces today have a Muslim presence considering the tiny 4% of the population.

You seem to mention the armed forces a lot. Were you in the armed forces?

 

[Anonymous]

Why are you proud of your own destruction? Seriously..........why?

Don’t be paranoid. Muslims have been here for 3 centuries. These views of hate and paranoid delusion I suspect make your life very restrained and unhappy. Tommy Robinson supports multi culturalism. Wow. Had to pick myself off the floor at that one.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

But Britain has been a multicultural melting pot since early 18th century.

Can you produce evidence or links to evidence regarding your too white curriculum authors? Being in the teaching profession I have never seen that and we still teach Hardy and Dickens amongst others to multicultural classes.

Turks from the Ottoman Empire were settled in Britain in the 18th century. Several British aristocrats converted to Islam and one of those made the first translation of the Quran into English.

More than 400.000 fought in the 1st world war and 2.5 million fought in the 2nd world war and the armed forces today have a Muslim presence considering the tiny 4% of the population.

You seem to mention the armed forces a lot. Were you in the armed forces?

You mean the Ottoman Empire that tried to conquer Europe....Is that the one you refer to? Because some British aristo's went native, which as part of colonialism was often their want, you think that's the recommendation to join the Islam ship? The Islamic population goes up every year does it not? That tiny 4% will go up and up and up every single year.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

Don’t be paranoid. Muslims have been here for 3 centuries. These views of hate and paranoid delusion I suspect make your life very restrained and unhappy. Tommy Robinson supports multi culturalism. Wow. Had to pick myself off the floor at that one.

TR has a problem with Islam. He's a civic nationalist. He's never talked about demography. He's never mentioned blacks. He's not an ethnonationalist.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

Don’t be paranoid. Muslims have been here for 3 centuries. These views of hate and paranoid delusion I suspect make your life very restrained and unhappy. Tommy Robinson supports multi culturalism. Wow. Had to pick myself off the floor at that one.

You should be paranoid........because of the projected stats....not because I said something about it but because of the facts. Are you rejecting the projected stats?

 

[LP Boy]

Pi

Piss factory

Many thanks

 

[Anonymous]

You mean the Ottoman Empire that tried to conquer Europe....Is that the one you refer to? Because some British aristo's went native, which as part of colonialism was often their want, you think that's the recommendation to join the Islam ship? The Islamic population goes up every year does it not? That tiny 4% will go up and up and up every single year.

You think as an English person you have a right to condemn the colonialism of a nation from centuries ago?

Who cares if it is going up every year. It is still not a take over and we live in a multi cultural society.

Again, what are you scared of? A 5% Muslim population. But you aren’t scared of the increasing catholic population?

Lol

 

[Anonymous]

TR has a problem with Islam. He's a civic nationalist. He's never talked about demography. He's never mentioned blacks. He's not an ethnonationalist.

His name by the way is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. He is a criminal with a long history of crimes including violent abuse against his opposition and his girlfriends and mortgage fraud and trying to get into countries with fake passports.

Is that the man you trust?

He bangs on constantly about child abuse but only perpetrated by Pakistanis and not the abuse by anyone else such as the Catholic Church. He refuses to recognise that several of his close followers have child abuse criminal records.

Is that the man you trust?

 

[Anonymous]

You should be paranoid........because of the projected stats....not because I said something about it but because of the facts. Are you rejecting the projected stats?

Yes I am rejecting the stats. Have you not seen the Tory’s new immigration policy? They are even rejecting entry to orphaned Muslim children and throwing out Windrush residents.

This is scaremongering and I don’t fear living in a society where there are more Muslims or and multi cultural category. The uk has been multicultured for centuries and I don’t see it as being a problem.

What I do see as a problem is the minority of hate filled scaremongers with your views and would happily see those people replaced any day with people who need a new home here.

 

[Lawrence]

You think as an English person you have a right to condemn the colonialism of a nation from centuries ago?

Who cares if it is going up every year. It is still not a take over and we live in a multi cultural society.

Again, what are you scared of? A 5% Muslim population. But you aren’t scared of the increasing catholic population?

Lol

When all you’re able to cite for an example of White English culture and identity is football after much dithering and evasion, what can you say? And that in Merrie Olde Essex, fat red-faced blokes wave the flag of a patron saint who never was born nor set foot in England always makes me chuckle, each and every April 23rd.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

Do you actually know what's going on in the culture war today? Open your eyes. Historical tv dramas are using non-whites to pretend that Britain has always been this great multicultural melting pot. The left see classic authors as "too white" and BAME authors should replace them on curriculums. I'm afraid you're the one that's blinkered.

That's an interesting observation. I've noticed in at least 2 period dramas where non-whites have been 'inserted', which I've put in inverted commas, not to suggest anything untoward, but it's to indicate that I have no idea if they featured back in the period, or have been added afterwards, and that's simply because I wasn't there, and neither have I read the book. It might have been the case that back in the colonial days, non-whites did feature in these 'stories', but the author might have chosen to write them out because of how readership might have reacted back in the day, when things weren't as liberal as they are today.

On a similar theme, do you see the same with TV ads? I think they're trying to normalise mixed-race families/couples & suggest it's reflective of today's society, &/or that it's ok. I don't have a problem with mixed-race relationships, but I don't believe it should be on virtually every advert as that's just building a fake reality which we're being asked to swallow. Brands have it though because they don't want to offend people &/or risk brand damage.

 

[Anonymous]

That's an interesting observation. I've noticed in at least 2 period dramas where non-whites have been 'inserted', which I've put in inverted commas, not to suggest anything untoward, but it's to indicate that I have no idea if they featured back in the period, or have been added afterwards, and that's simply because I wasn't there, and neither have I read the book. It might have been the case that back in the colonial days, non-whites did feature in these 'stories', but the author might have chosen to write them out because of how readership might have reacted back in the day, when things weren't as liberal as they are today.

On a similar theme, do you see the same with TV ads? I think they're trying to normalise mixed-race families/couples & suggest it's reflective of today's society, &/or that it's ok. I don't have a problem with mixed-race relationships, but I don't believe it should be on virtually every advert as that's just building a fake reality which we're being asked to swallow. Brands have it though because they don't want to offend people &/or risk brand damage.

I haven't noticed that every advert on tv as mixed race relationships. I think you may well be exaggerating somewhat.

I do have many friends however who are in mixed race relationships. In fact when I list my friends who are in relationships 40% of them are mixed race and if I add those that are in a relationship with someone from outside the UK such as eastern Europe that figure goes up to 75%.

We live in a multicultural society with many different ethnic backgounds so of course people are in mixed race relationships. It would be odd if they weren't and I don't see that portrayed on TV as being a problem and in fact I don't even notice it because I don't see people by their race or skin colour.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

I haven't noticed that every advert on tv as mixed race relationships. I think you may well be exaggerating somewhat.

I do have many friends however who are in mixed race relationships. In fact when I list my friends who are in relationships 40% of them are mixed race and if I add those that are in a relationship with someone from outside the UK such as eastern Europe that figure goes up to 75%.

We live in a multicultural society with many different ethnic backgounds so of course people are in mixed race relationships. It would be odd if they weren't and I don't see that portrayed on TV as being a problem and in fact I don't even notice it because I don't see people by their race or skin colour.

I didn't say 'every'...I said 'virtually every', and it's increasing. It's not something I'm monitoring but it's something I've simply noticed. I don't have a problem with MR relationships either, which I also stated.
So if you're on a high-horse, I suggest you dismount.

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't say 'every'...I said 'virtually every', and it's increasing. It's not something I'm monitoring but it's something I've simply noticed. I don't have a problem with MR relationships either, which I also stated.
So if you're on a high-horse, I suggest you dismount.

But you did say you believe brands are building a fake reality and I dispute that. I again, don't see even anywhere near "virtually every" tv advert showing mixed race relationships but mixed race relationships are quite common so seeing them on the tv would only be expected and normal rather than fake. Should there be a central body that counts and controls the race content brands use so that mixed race relationships are restricted as a whole. Brands don't talk to each other about what their advertising content will be. Maybe several have just had the good sense to portray mixed race relationships and the sum of those have made it feel to you that it is virtually every advert.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

But you did say you believe brands are building a fake reality and I dispute that. I again, don't see even anywhere near "virtually every" tv advert showing mixed race relationships but mixed race relationships are quite common so seeing them on the tv would only be expected and normal rather than fake. Should there be a central body that counts and controls the race content brands use so that mixed race relationships are restricted as a whole. Brands don't talk to each other about what their advertising content will be. Maybe several have just had the good sense to portray mixed race relationships and the sum of those have made it feel to you that it is virtually every advert.

I don't want to get into protracted this n that, but all I'm saying, in the world in which I live, for my part of the UK, the adverts don't reflect what I see on a daily basis, in my reality, so to me they're creating a fake reality. So for example, I don't see hardly any black people, & don't see mixed relationships; I see some Asian people, but not many, but never seen a mixed asian/white couple. YMMV depending on where you live.

 

[Anonymous]

That's an interesting observation. I've noticed in at least 2 period dramas where non-whites have been 'inserted', which I've put in inverted commas, not to suggest anything untoward, but it's to indicate that I have no idea if they featured back in the period, or have been added afterwards, and that's simply because I wasn't there, and neither have I read the book. It might have been the case that back in the colonial days, non-whites did feature in these 'stories', but the author might have chosen to write them out because of how readership might have reacted back in the day, when things weren't as liberal as they are today.

On a similar theme, do you see the same with TV ads? I think they're trying to normalise mixed-race families/couples & suggest it's reflective of today's society, &/or that it's ok. I don't have a problem with mixed-race relationships, but I don't believe it should be on virtually every advert as that's just building a fake reality which we're being asked to swallow. Brands have it though because they don't want to offend people &/or risk brand damage.

Also as for period dramas portraying non whites. Well for so long films and dramas have not portrayed non whites in key roles and have often been portrayed in stereotypical roles.

Non whites did exist in the UK during the times of most period dramas so undoubtedly should be portrayed.

We live in a multicultural society and this is acting. Do we question when a gay actor portrays an historical character who wasn't gay? Why shouldn't a back person portray an historical white person?

It has been the reverse for a long time. When we look at biblical epics etc and any portrayal of historic christian stories for so long they portrayed this white aryan image of Jesus being milk white and blue eyes. God is portrayed has always been a white figure. Major hollywood biblical epics always portrayed Jesus like this and old testament epics had a complete emptiness of black or dark skinned actors.

In reality it is more likely that Jesus was dark skinned or actually black since the alleged connection was to the family of King Solomon's descendants and he had a black wife as portrayed in the bible. A lot of Israelites at that time had migrated from Egypt and milk white skin would have been rare.

This isn't a new thing. But at the end of the day is the point of a tv drama to accurately depict characters according to appearance, skin colour, facial hair, hair colour, height? I don't think they are important to the dramatic role being portrayed.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't want to get into protracted this n that, but all I'm saying, in the world in which I live, for my part of the UK, the adverts don't reflect what I see on a daily basis, in my reality, so to me they're creating a fake reality. So for example, I don't see hardly any black people, & don't see mixed relationships; I see some Asian people, but not many, but never seen a mixed asian/white couple. YMMV depending on where you live.

You don't see many black people. You must live in a pretty isolated village somewhere but in most cities in the uk mixed Asian/White couples are fairly common and every time I leave the house I see black people, on buses in shops everywhere. I also have 2 close friends who are in mixed Asian/White marriages. I also work with large numbers of Asian professional workers and many have married white partners.

As I said I don't think brands are creating fake realities. They don't talk to each other and there is no limit on what brands portray. If one brand portrays a mixed relationship that would be representitive. There is nothing stopping multiple brands portraying the same thing coincidentally rather than some attempt to produce fake realities.

 

[Lawrence]

I don't want to get into protracted this n that, but all I'm saying, in the world in which I live, for my part of the UK, the adverts don't reflect what I see on a daily basis, in my reality, so to me they're creating a fake reality. So for example, I don't see hardly any black people, & don't see mixed relationships; I see some Asian people, but not many, but never seen a mixed asian/white couple. YMMV depending on where you live.

@Mozmar, try not to be as defensive and as cagey as you’re coming over. At the rate you’re going, you’ll have dug yourself a hole halfway to Australia with the replies you give. We only have to go over your past posts to know where the land lies with you.
And one more thing. Why do you have to embolden certain letters and words for? It's almost as if you're going into "poor me" mode, or something. It really does need to be mentioned.

 

[Anonymous]

What a pathetic reply. You wish to stay in your bubble. I saw a comment from the BAME Smithsian where they mentioned watching 'Steptoe And Son' with their Windrush parents. They were exposed to the selfsame cultural reference points as you and I were as kids in the 70's. Anonymous consistently asked you the same question: what is White British culture. Your response? Constant stalling.
Didn't he/she refer to having their own working-class cultural identity in their replies to you. And now you play "The Patriot Card". Woeful. The quintessential postwar youth cult associated with fascists - skinheads - came about due to cultural cross-pollination between West Indian "rude boys" and working-class white kids. Hippies were influenced by postwar influences beyond these shores (India and Africa). Is that a lie.
The teenage Steven Patrick Morrissey was hugely influenced in his fashion sense by a one-time mod of Jewish extraction named Marc Field (Bolan). Given your past comments about Jews, you really ought to scratch 'Panic' and 'The Last Of The Famous International Playboys' from your ITunes playlist, hadn't you? How revealing that some 34 years after he told Frank Owen of the ".... conspiracy to place discofied nonsense into the charts," Morrissey released his token gesture with Thelma Houston. I do laugh on hearing "Bobby..." whenever she sings "You ain't foolin' nobody!" as she unintentionally gives the game away somewhat as to why he collaborated with her.
All TRUE culture is kinetic. By being so fixated upon the past, you stifle and deny others of a future. No wonder your vision of what constitutes Britishness is so soundly rejected as it is by young people. They share and find more commonality with Stormzy than they ever will in a film featuring James Robertson Justice screened daily on Talking Pictures TV.

Talking about Windrush...What do you call folk with unstoppable flatulence? The Windrush Generation!?

 

[Deleted member 29417]

That's an interesting observation. I've noticed in at least 2 period dramas where non-whites have been 'inserted', which I've put in inverted commas, not to suggest anything untoward, but it's to indicate that I have no idea if they featured back in the period, or have been added afterwards, and that's simply because I wasn't there, and neither have I read the book. It might have been the case that back in the colonial days, non-whites did feature in these 'stories', but the author might have chosen to write them out because of how readership might have reacted back in the day, when things weren't as liberal as they are today.

On a similar theme, do you see the same with TV ads? I think they're trying to normalise mixed-race families/couples & suggest it's reflective of today's society, &/or that it's ok. I don't have a problem with mixed-race relationships, but I don't believe it should be on virtually every advert as that's just building a fake reality which we're being asked to swallow. Brands have it though because they don't want to offend people &/or risk brand damage.

I'm friends with a lot of great actors from BAME backgrounds, so I like that diversity casting gives them more opportunities.

And it is policy. You literally have boxes you need to tick, for example, you won't be eligible for a bafta if you have an all-white cast.

The only issue I have is that it often produces complete cheese. Because instead of just leaving artists to it, producers keep interfering, like it's a children's educational show esp the BBC. So you get an absolute horror like The War Of The Worlds where some idiot decided that a story about an alien colonization of England needed lines about how it's Just Like The British Empire. Nearly cringed to death for the poor writer.