Linder on Morrissey in Guardian (18/01/2020)

A very nice interview with Linder Sterling in today’s The Guardian:

How the artist Linder went from Orgasm Addict to Chatsworth House - Observer Design

Excerpt:

She also became known as Morrissey’s muse and went on to photograph him extensively in the early 90s as he toured the US. “We shared the same taste, liked the same books,” she says. “We shared a house for a brief period in Whalley Range – it was a red-light district then.” With his counterintuitive views on the far-right For Britain party, Morrissey is a touchy subject these days, but Linder is loyal. “We’ve always disagreed,” she says. “It’s a healthy disagreement, the sort that comes with unconditional love.”

Just a shame about the unnecessary framing, The Guardian.

 
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Mozmar

Well-Known Member
This is off-topic - unless THE MIND OF MORRISSEY is a topic in every thread - but (mainly because I'm not a bloke) I didn't know Manchester United were called The Red Devils, that it was Busby who started it & that their logo has a trident.

Could the horror of THE PIN - be because he's fond of a trident? Hmmm, tenuous I think

And didn't realise it would get that much coverage? He wore it twice then seemed to abandon it, while upping his lefty-ish badge quota (which got absolutely no coverage).

The Red Devils indeed:

https://www.famouslogos.net/manchester-united-logo/

I believe I've read Moz used to go to Old Trafford with his father to watch them; his Dad was a decent player apparently but never went professional. Not sure if it's in Severed Alliance or other.
 

Mozmar

Well-Known Member
Going to harp on about politics again - but one thing I've found really weird is how angry people were with Morrissey over his anti-EU stance.

I'm pro-EU because I think we need an alliance & we have to be realistic about the global economy.

But it is just an alliance.

And I remember how bad the fallout was from the EU imposing austerity on Ireland in 2008 to 2014. The Irish were angry about it - which might explain where Moz's dislike of the EU came from. He wasn't banging on about it in the 80s or 90s as far as I can tell & it was an issue then. (This is the kind of mitigation a pr would have dug up & used, whether he liked it or not).

Found this - https://www.irishtimes.com/business...-ireland-by-berlin-says-ex-official-1.4094603

And the thought was prompted by this old article: https://www.clashmusic.com/features/7-of-the-best-morrissey-solo-cuts

(I never sleep).

Yet again Moz was proven to be right re; the EU - 52% as you know voted to leave - I was part of that 52%.

I think he got bad press for agreeing with Brexit ("As for Brexit, the result was magnificent"), but like I say, he was right on the nail. I also agree with what he said about Farage: "“I like Nigel Farage a great deal,” he told Loaded in 2013. “His views are quite logical – especially where Europe is concerned.”

Caveat though, Moz has never voted for anyone at all, not that I can find any conclusive evidence about; those who think the contrary are speculators, or sensationalists.

EU is more than an alliance; it's a club which has economical benefits, not only for member nations, but for the corrupt, self-serving politicians in the form of huge pensions, for example.
I'll be glad when we're out & can manage ourselves again without diktats from the EU club.
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Yet again Moz was proven to be right re; the EU - 52% as you know voted to leave - I was part of that 52%.

I think he got bad press for agreeing with Brexit ("As for Brexit, the result was magnificent"), but like I say, he was right on the nail. I also agree with what he said about Farage: "“I like Nigel Farage a great deal,” he told Loaded in 2013. “His views are quite logical – especially where Europe is concerned.”

Caveat though, Moz has never voted for anyone at all, not that I can find any conclusive evidence about; those who think the contrary are speculators, or sensationalists.

EU is more than an alliance; it's a club which has economical benefits, not only for member nations, but for the corrupt, self-serving politicians in the form of huge pensions, for example.
I'll be glad when we're out & can manage ourselves again without diktats from the EU club.

I'm the opposite, but I suspect we got what we deserved because instead of making a positive case for Remain, we demonized Leavers & tried to frighten voters.

And no one ever bothered making a positive case for the EU before the referendum because no one thought the public would ever have a choice.

So, yeah. I think Morrissey wins that one.
 

Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
Is the person endlessly whining about perceived double-standards between black people and white people seriously accusing me of employing tedious cliches? Every word out of your mouth is straight from the tired, old racist dogwhistle handbook.

To you anyone with an opinion against wokery is not worthy of opening their mouths. That's not equality, it's elitism.

You are part of the problem of the current insanity.
 
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Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
Going to harp on about politics again - but one thing I've found really weird is how angry people were with Morrissey over his anti-EU stance.

I'm pro-EU because I think we need an alliance & we have to be realistic about the global economy.

But it is just an alliance.

And I remember how bad the fallout was from the EU imposing austerity on Ireland in 2008 to 2014. The Irish were angry about it - which might explain where Moz's dislike of the EU came from. He wasn't banging on about it in the 80s or 90s as far as I can tell & it was an issue then. (This is the kind of mitigation a pr would have dug up & used, whether he liked it or not).

Found this - https://www.irishtimes.com/business...-ireland-by-berlin-says-ex-official-1.4094603

And the thought was prompted by this old article: https://www.clashmusic.com/features/7-of-the-best-morrissey-solo-cuts

(I never sleep).
Ireland fought so hard and long for sovereignty, then sold it all away to the EU (and its bank) who they are now trapped by and in debt to, seemingly forever. The multinationals use Ireland's low corporation tax laws to base many of their European headquarters there, then take the profits away out of Ireland with them. Toxic chemical factories also love setting up in Ireland as they take advantage of its vast countryside and lax regulation in this area. As a result cancer is extremely high in Eire compared to Northern Ireland.

Irish media is woke to insane Sweden-style levels, so that a country with half the population of 150 years ago were manipulated into voting for abortion. This manufactured consent by the corrupt Dublin media also made Ireland ashamed of its long history of Catholicism. In reality there are no more paedo priests than paedo rabbis or Muslim imams, but press sensation goes a long way.

By joining the EU and economically relying on foreign companies to prop up the economy, Ireland shot itself in the head big time. Those same multinationals are now setting the political tone by supporting and encouraging the woke causes that are destroying the country's character and turning it into Sweden. The county's leader is a gay Indian that the people never even voted in. The EU and the UN are forever sending out directives that our countries must follow. Mass immigration is their plan for Ireland - one million more migrants in the next decade. That will mean eventual extinction for the proud indigenous Irish.

The multinationals, the EU and the UN are one and the same. Heathen, woke, elitist and anti-human.
 
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A

Anonymous

Guest
Let me whisper this. Nobody, and I mean nobody, thinks any less of a person because of the colour of their skin. That's the real elephant in the room.

White flight, for example, is because of behaviour, not skin colour.
I agree, but I'm interested in knowing what you consider racist. Let's say for example that a Max doesn't like black people because the black people in his neighborhood are violent and engaged in gang activity. Obviously, if a white person was violent and engaged in gang activity, Max would be just as repulsed by them and if Max saw a rich black businessperson, he'd have no problem with them. We can say that Max is discriminating on the basis of class, not race.
However, whenever Max sees a black person, he assumes that they have these undesirable traits.

Do you think that Max is racist in assuming that all black people possess the traits that he dislikes?
What does somebody have to do/believe to be considered racist in your eyes?
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Ireland fought so hard and long for sovereignty, then sold it all away to the EU (and it's bank) who they are now trapped by and in debt to, seemingly forever. The multinationals use Ireland's low corporation tax laws to base many of their European headquarters there, then take the profits away out of Ireland with them. Toxic chemical factories also love setting up in Ireland as they take advantage of its vast countryside and lax regulation in this area. As a result cancer is extremely high in Eire compared to Northern Ireland.

Irish media is woke to insane Sweden-style levels, so that a country with half the population of 150 years ago were manipulated into voting for abortion. This manufactured consent by the corrupt Dublin media also made Ireland ashamed of its long history of Catholicism. In reality there are no more paedo priests than paedo rabbis or Muslim imams, but press sensation goes a long way.

By joining the EU and economically relying on foreign companies to prop up the economy, Ireland shot itself in the head big time. Those same multinationals are now setting the political tone by supporting and encouraging the woke causes that are destroying the country's character and turning it into Sweden. The county's leader is a gay Indian that the people never even voted in. The EU and the UN are forever sending out directives that our countries must follow. Mass immigration is their plan for Ireland - one million more migrants in the next decade. That will mean eventual extinction for the proud indigenous Irish.

The multinationals, the EU and the UN are one and the same. Heathen, woke, elitist and anti-human.

Leo is great. You need to stop obsessing about blood & soil. It's horrifying.

They're economically precarious anyway, but I think the EU was too brutal.

I don't know how bad the paedophile scandal was in relation to the press coverage, but the church is big & powerful enough to have dealt with it swiftly & honestly, so they don't have huge grounds for complaint, although I know good people did suffer when the outrage was at its height.
 

Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
I agree, but I'm interested in knowing what you consider racist. Let's say for example that a Max doesn't like black people because the black people in his neighborhood are violent and engaged in gang activity. Obviously, if a white person was violent and engaged in gang activity, Max would be just as repulsed by them and if Max saw a rich black businessperson, he'd have no problem with them. We can say that Max is discriminating on the basis of class, not race.
However, whenever Max sees a black person, he assumes that they have these undesirable traits.

Do you think that Max is racist in assuming that all black people possess the traits that he dislikes?
What does somebody have to do/believe to be considered racist in your eyes?
Even Max, if he was asked honestly, and not just after being called a white pussy by a gang he's just passed on the street, would admit that not all black people are unlikable.

I live in a city where the vast majority of murders and muggings are carried out by black people. (Some people would call me a racist for stating this evident fact). This doesn't mean I see all black people as muggers and murderers. Whatever areas blacks move in to, violent crime against the person will occur in higher doses. This isn't necessarily due to poverty because an area high in other poor races isn't always violently dangerous to the same extent (though car crime may be higher, or other unviolent crimes). But even dwelling on this, anyone sane knows that it doesn't mean every black is likely to be a violent attacker. It just means you need to watch yourself on the street a little better when, say, walking at night through Thornton Heath as opposed to Dulwich Village.

The fact that muggers target whites more than blacks arguably has a racist element to it. As does black on white rape, which is disturbingly common, but virtually unheard of with the races reversed. This is a taboo subject that again will have you labelled a racist - because of the sheer 'inconvenience' of its truth. It's like a horror that mustn't be talked about.

Throwing a brick through the window of a Pakistani restaurant and shouting a racial epithet is undoubtedly a racist act. But then say the workers in the place had the night before fed heroin to and gang-raped your daughter? Then it would simply be an act of vigilantism and the fact that you called them a bunch of f***ing P***s would be nothing to do with race, but with wanting to insult them in the harshest vocal way possible. It wouldn't necessarily mean you are racist.

It's a complex subject, which is being abused to silent all opposing thought in debates about all sorts of things.Why for example was Morrissey labelled a racist for commenting on mass immigration? The rich have plenty to benefit from cheap workers who are more than happy to undercut the present workers, and the working class suffer as a direct result of migrants swamping the labour pool, making wages lower and work harder to find. Not to mention cultural reasons. Bear in mind also that in the old days migrants assimilated. Then from Blair onwards the floodgates were opened wide which means less assimilation.
 
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Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
Leo is great. You need to stop obsessing about blood & soil. It's horrifying.

They're economically precarious anyway, but I think the EU was too brutal.

I don't know how bad the paedophile scandal was in relation to the press coverage, but the church is big & powerful enough to have dealt with it swiftly & honestly, so they don't have huge grounds for complaint, although I know good people did suffer when the outrage was at its height.
A few decades ago virtually everyone in Ireland went to Mass. Now most don't. They see the church as a laughing stock, a bunch of paedos in dresses, and think they've been liberated from 'all that nonsense'. They want to be more modern than modern. They've been conned.

Leo Varadkar is a enemy of Ireland. He's a globalist who supports anti-Catholic causes. He's part of a crowd who will silence you with a racist label if your opinion differs from their mutant-capitalist/cultural Marxist agenda. Every one of those in the Easter Rising would have happily loaded their gun for his summary execution as a traitor then knelt down for a decade of the Rosary.

As a Catholic yourself, how can you love this man? Though I suppose Jesus did say love your enemies. Me, I prefer Jesus H's whip-in-the-temple mode. I prefer to see him as a bit of a boy who liked to sit and drink wine with thieves and Mary M.

As for blood and soil, is there a single Nigerian for example out of the 200m that exist who would happily allow, say, the Chinese to overtake them in population numbers? If you told a black person that their race was declining in number, they would be horrified. Livid.

Whereas so many whites just shrug and say: so what, changes happen, things evolve etc.
 
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Nerak

Reverse Ferret
A few decades ago virtually everyone in Ireland went to Mass. Now most don't. They see the church as a laughing stock, a bunch of paedos in dresses, and think they've been liberated from 'all that nonsense'. They want to be more modern than modern. They've been conned.

Leo Varadkar is a enemy of Ireland. He's a globalist who supports anti-Catholic causes. He's part of a crowd who will silence you with a racist label if your opinion differs from their mutant-capitalist/cultural Marxist agenda.

As a Catholic yourself, how can you love this man? Though I suppose Jesus did say love your enemies. Me, I prefer Jesus H's whip-in-the-temple mode.

I really don't think Leo would label someone. I think he genuinely wants people of different backgrounds to get on.

Different people, different times. You have to adapt, inspire & endure.

When I was small my favourite saints were the Martyrs of Taiyuan-fu who were massacred in 1900, purely for their faith. And Franciscans are still in China, still preaching we're all brothers & sisters (believers or not).
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
To you anyone with an opinion against wokery is not worthy of opening their mouths. That's not equality, it's elitism.

You are part of the problem of the current insanity.
You know nothing of my politics, I'm hardly 'woke.' But your politics are made abundantly clear with every sophomoric, paranoid screed against immigration that you send into the void of this website. I'm not remotely a proponent of open borders and I don't think mass immigration is a sustainable model, especially as the very real effects of climate change start to manifest. But your mentality is so blatantly motivated by race and a delusional attachment to "the way things were" that it's hard to take anything you say seriously. Shit changes, it's constantly in flux. Your idea of "your culture" is a work of fiction.
 

Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
I really don't think Leo would label someone. I think he genuinely wants people of different backgrounds to get on.

Different people, different times. You have to adapt, inspire & endure.

When I was small my favourite saints were the Martyrs of Taiyuan-fu who were massacred in 1900, purely for their faith. And Franciscans are still in China, still preaching we're all brothers & sisters (believers or not).
Though I don't quite agree with you on Leo, I do admire your positivity.

I do agree that Franciscans are the coolest monks though.
 

Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
You know nothing of my politics, I'm hardly 'woke.' But your politics are made abundantly clear with every sophomoric, paranoid screed against immigration that you send into the void of this website. I'm not remotely a proponent of open borders and I don't think mass immigration is a sustainable model, especially as the very real effects of climate change start to manifest. But your mentality is so blatantly motivated by race and a delusional attachment to "the way things were" that it's hard to take anything you say seriously. Shit changes, it's constantly in flux. Your idea of "your culture" is a work of fiction.
Though it's unfashionable to say, change is not always progress. Sometimes changes are bad and the future will suffer because of them.

You may not enjoy open borders, but you are showing symptoms of the contagious woke disease in your patronising attitude towards my airing of my opinions. Nothing you say could shock or offend me - I'm cool as a cucumber - whereas every word I utter seems to trigger a minor tantrum in you.

I'm just here letting my thoughts flow.
 
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Verso

Well-Known Member
If my attitude towards you is patronizing, it has less to do with "symptoms of woke disease" than it does with the intellectually-bereft diatribes you try to pass off here as insight. My point is not that change is good or bad, it just is. The subjective nature of it is irrelevant. You'd be better off trying to broaden your philosophical understanding of the world instead of losing sleep over whether or not a rapper is going to move into your house when you die.
 

Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
If my attitude towards you is patronizing, it has less to do with "symptoms of woke disease" than it does with the intellectually-bereft diatribes you try to pass off here as insight. My point is not that change is good or bad, it just is. The subjective nature of it is irrelevant. You'd be better off trying to broaden your philosophical understanding of the world instead of losing sleep over whether or not a rapper is going to move into your house when you die.
If Stormzy thinks he's moving into my house when I die, he's going to have to watch his back.

And it's a myth that change 'just is'. For example, they are flying non-chartered planes full of migrants into military airports then distributing these migrants across the remotest, most cultural parts of Ireland. This is social engineering. It doesn't just happen. Opening up borders does not 'just happen'. Extreme capitalism doesn't just happen. Someone getting their house taken away by the bank because it will not give them more time to find work doesn't 'just happen'.

Now press OFF, sit down and have a long think about what I've just said. Ruminate for hours if need be. Un-woke yourself - and start now.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
If Stormzy thinks he's moving into my house when I die, he's going to have to watch his back.

And it's a myth that change 'just is'. For example, they are flying non-chartered planes full of migrants into military airports then distributing these migrants across the remotest, most cultural parts of Ireland. This is social engineering. It doesn't just happen. Opening up borders does not 'just happen'. Extreme capitalism doesn't just happen. Someone getting their house taken away by the bank because it will not give them more time to find work doesn't 'just happen'.

Now press OFF, sit down and have a long think about what I've just said. Ruminate for hours if need be. Un-woke yourself - and start now.
Who is they?

You're conflating several distinct, complex issues into one broad, tired expression of anxiety over the state of the modern world. In one sense, you're right. Taken individually, these things don't "just happen" but the plates are perpetually shifting and what's happening today is the result of many things that happened yesterday, two years ago, twenty years ago and so on. What do you expect? It is the rippling, exponential effect of self-serving foreign policy decisions, imperialism and colonialism. It is the chickens coming home to roost, in many respects. But that fact that you think your declaration that "things are bad" demands a long sit-down and rumination betrays the limited nature of your education on the matter. You're not blowing anyone's mind here. Read a book.
 

Pippistrella

Well-Known Member
The UN and the NGOs supported by a sycophantic government.

I've already said that changes we make (now or in the past) affect the future, so it's good to agree on that. Though I don't quite see why you're (combatively) repeating a point I previously made.

I do read books. I love books. My most treasured possessions are books. I'd happily have the internet scrapped and iPhones banned and live forever with my books. I also wouldn't care if they scrapped all Britain's airports and grew forests on them instead. I realised the other day that by accident I live quite an eco-friendly life.

As I said, I'm just ruminating here today, You are not impelled to join in.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
If Stormzy thinks he's moving into my house when I die, he's going to have to watch his back.

And it's a myth that change 'just is'. For example, they are flying non-chartered planes full of migrants into military airports then distributing these migrants across the remotest, most cultural parts of Ireland. This is social engineering. It doesn't just happen. Opening up borders does not 'just happen'. Extreme capitalism doesn't just happen. Someone getting their house taken away by the bank because it will not give them more time to find work doesn't 'just happen'.

Now press OFF, sit down and have a long think about what I've just said. Ruminate for hours if need be. Un-woke yourself - and start now.

You'd have more chance with the economic argument & even the social cohesion one if you weren't mixing it up with bithrates & negative attributes to groups of people.

Lowkey Patriotism is sneaking back anyway & the extreme version of diversity is getting quietly shelved, because it's failed resoundly at the ballot box & it's giving too much power to wedge issues & Twitter mobs.
 

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