Lifted from Marr?

[Catholic]

I've seen a lot of mention of Marr "lifting" from other songs for inspiration e.g. this list from Uncleskinny in 2011:

Victoria Wood - Funny How Things Turn Out - lines lifted for Rusholme Ruffians/Frankly Mr Shankly
The Beatles - Dear Prudence - melody influenced Death Of A Disco Dancer
Hamilton Bohannon - Disco Stomp - Influenced How Soon Is Now
Victoria Wood - Fourteen Again - lines lifted (almost) for Rusholme Ruffians
James Taylor - Handy Man - melody influenced Reel around The Fountain
Marvin Gaye/Rolling Stones - Hitch Hike - influenced start of There Is A Light...
Velvet Underground - I Can't Stand It - influenced The Queen Is Dead
Patti Smith - Kimberley - influenced The Hand That Rocks The Cradle
David Bowie - Kooks - lines influenced Sheila Take A Bow
Doobie Brothers - Long Train Running - influenced The Draize Train
T-Rex - Metal Guru - Influenced Panic
Sparks - Never Turn Your Back On Mother Earth - influenced Such a Little Thing...
Gilbert O'Sullivan - Nothing Rhymed - influenced Yes I Am Blind
The Cookies - Only To Other People - influenced The Girl Least Likely To


(Well, the last two are Rourke, not Marr.)

Anyway, my question is: does it ever seem that Whyte, Boorer, Tobias etc — any of Moz's other music writers — have lifted from Marr?

It's clear to me that certain songs (eg. "Seasick Yet Still Docked") sound Smith-sy. But do people think that any Moz songs have consciously tried to specifically copy anything by Marr?

A couple of people suggested that "What Kind of People" was influenced by Bragg's "Sexuality" co-written by Marr. I'm not sure I can hear it, but I'm curious what people think.

 

[Anonymous]

'Hold On To Your Friends' - to quote from Mozipedia: "Musically, it stands as Whyte's most audacious theft from The Smith's catalogue". Basically the main riff is nearly identical to Marr's outro riff at the very end of 'Pretty Girls Make Graves'. Credit to Alain though, he's re-arranged it just enough to give it it's own identity and not make it too glaringly obvious.

 

[This Charming Bowie]

I always thought the backing vocals and guitar ending section to “Sunny” was very similar to “Pretty Girls Make Graves”.

 

[Anonymous]

Disappointed is pretty obviously a reheated version of How Soon is Now.

 

[Hanna_hanna]

Viva Hate sounds Smith-sy to me

 

[Fion s]

Viva Hate sounds Smith-sy to me

Aside from Suedehead and Maybe EDILS, Viva Hate sounds more like The Durutti Column, musically.

 

[MozIsGod]

"Let Me Kiss You" (the chorus instrumental part) always sounded a bit Smiths-like to me.

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

I've seen a lot of mention of Marr "lifting" from other songs for inspiration e.g. this list from Uncleskinny in 2011:

Victoria Wood - Funny How Things Turn Out - lines lifted for Rusholme Ruffians/Frankly Mr Shankly
The Beatles - Dear Prudence - melody influenced Death Of A Disco Dancer
Hamilton Bohannon - Disco Stomp - Influenced How Soon Is Now
Victoria Wood - Fourteen Again - lines lifted (almost) for Rusholme Ruffians
James Taylor - Handy Man - melody influenced Reel around The Fountain
Marvin Gaye/Rolling Stones - Hitch Hike - influenced start of There Is A Light...
Velvet Underground - I Can't Stand It - influenced The Queen Is Dead
Patti Smith - Kimberley - influenced The Hand That Rocks The Cradle
David Bowie - Kooks - lines influenced Sheila Take A Bow
Doobie Brothers - Long Train Running - influenced The Draize Train
T-Rex - Metal Guru - Influenced Panic
Sparks - Never Turn Your Back On Mother Earth - influenced Such a Little Thing...
Gilbert O'Sullivan - Nothing Rhymed - influenced Yes I Am Blind
The Cookies - Only To Other People - influenced The Girl Least Likely To


(Well, the last two are Rourke, not Marr.)

Anyway, my question is: does it ever seem that Whyte, Boorer, Tobias etc — any of Moz's other music writers — have lifted from Marr?

It's clear to me that certain songs (eg. "Seasick Yet Still Docked") sound Smith-sy. But do people think that any Moz songs have consciously tried to specifically copy anything by Marr?

A couple of people suggested that "What Kind of People" was influenced by Bragg's "Sexuality" co-written by Marr. I'm not sure I can hear it, but I'm curious what people think.

It seems to me most lps (if not all, in someway) have been, at least 25% Smiths , Its why i can never understand why people have a go at Johnny so much. Alain has said a few times, he saw early on, M was looking for someone to ape johnny (and in my mind, at times Bernard Butler) .
Jesse, is less Smithy . but Johnny still hangs handy, like a swinging vine

 

[MozIsGod]

Sorry Doesn't Help = Sweet And Tender Hooligan

If You Don't Like Me, Don't Look At Me = Bigmouth Strikes Again

 

[Catholic]

I am really grateful for all sincere responses to this topic. Thank you!

I remain very interested in whatever sounds Smiths-y to people here.

I am also curious if anyone here thinks Whyte etc. might have lifted from Marr's LATER work.

(As mentioned, two people here saw resemblances between "What Kind of People" and Bragg/Marr's "Sexuality". I can't hear it myself, but I don't trust my ears, being musically illiterate.)

Any more thoughts about anything either Smiths-y or Marr-sy gratefully appreciated!

 

[MozIsGod]

Rebels Without Applause is a Cemetry Gates facsimile.

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

Rebels Without Applause is a Cemetry Gates facsimile.

actually , you are right, I was wondering ,

 

[The Wild Turkey]

Kinda wonderin' if referencin' Cemetry Gates in Rebels Without Applause is a
comment on the subject matter of the song.
Moz is singin' about these groups of the past.
Was also wonderin' if the line "the gangs all gone and now I am the only one"
is a reference to The Smiths.
That's pretty funny to reference Cemetery Gates in a song that talks about the
death of The Smiths.
Moz would do somethin' like that.

 

[Anonymous]

Rebels Without Applause is a Cemetry Gates facsimile.

It might be a bit too similar, in my opinion. the new song is pleasant enough, but every time I listen to it, I'm reminded of 'Cemetry Gates', which is a far better song, and I'm not 100% sure that's a good thing.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Kinda wonderin' if referencin' Cemetry Gates in Rebels Without Applause is a
comment on the subject matter of the song.
Moz is singin' about these groups of the past.
Was also wonderin' if the line "the gangs all gone and now I am the only one"
is a reference to The Smiths.
That's pretty funny to reference Cemetery Gates in a song that talks about the
death of The Smiths.
Moz would do somethin' like that.

It’s obvious Morrissey knew that it sounded like Cemetry Gates when given the music. So your interpretation does make sense, there’s probably that in there too.

 

[Skylarker]

Sorry Doesn't Help = Sweet And Tender Hooligan

I think you mean I'm OK By Myself, not Sorry Doesn't Help.

And yeah I was biking today playing the new songs and thought that Rebels is totally Cemetry Gates.

 

[Southport Grandma]

“Hold On To Your Friends” in parts brings to mind “Pretty Girls Make Graves”.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

It’s obvious Morrissey knew that it sounded like Cemetry Gates when given the music. So your interpretation does make sense, there’s probably that in there too.

Yes, I felt the same way. And possibly to take it further than the author intended, they are both graveyard tours of a sort. At the opening guitar pattern, I wondered if Morrissey risked being a second John Fogerty, who was famously sued for plagiarizing himself, but as the song evolves it breaks loose from Cemetry Gates and becomes its own. The guitars toward the end take on a kind of crystal-clean African Highlife shimmer. It's pristine enough live; I'm looking forward to the studio version.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Yes, I felt the same way. And possibly to take it further than the author intended, they are both graveyard tours of a sort. At the opening guitar pattern, I wondered if Morrissey risked being a second John Fogerty, who was famously sued for plagiarizing himself,

but as the song evolves it breaks loose from Cemetry Gates and becomes its own. The guitars toward the end take on a kind of crystal-clean African Highlife shimmer. It's pristine enough live; I'm looking forward to the studio version.

Yes, there’s a shift right after he sings the first ‘Rebels without applause’ line and there’s a pause/quick break in the music. After that it becomes it’s own. This style of music also makes me think of The Housemartins in part, or that genre of music that was greatly influenced by The Smiths.

 

[stux]

Oboe concerto = Death of a disco dancer