Last Lest List Lost Lust: who may say?

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Morrissey's 2015 novel, List of the Lost, was promoted as being about the reality of what is true battling against what is permitted to be true, explored through a plot revolving around a relay team in 70s America whose members have deep emotional bonds. After one of them accidentally kills a homeless man, all of their lives go off the rails.

We've had the scholarly article suggesting that most reviews overlooked innovative and apt use of themes and metaphors from Queer Gothic fiction - https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/scholarly-article-about-list-of-the-lost.149575/

If the book had come out in the current cultural climate, it might have encountered a growing form of pushback, for which sensitivity readers are increasingly employed.

Prolific award-winning Irish playwright Deirdre Kinahan recently discussed writing fiction from outside personal experience to portray non-self voices. Cases of dispute over the right of actors to play characters whose lifestyles they do not share are no longer rare. What is being demanded is that, instead of an artist pretending and guessing how others are, the scripts should ideally be enacted by people directly living the dramas being described, to achieve the desired standard of authenticity. Writers of characters are also coming under fire in this way, with significant implications not just for cost and practice but for imaginative latitude too.

Because Deirdre Kinahan's career from the start focuses on people marginalised from the mainstream, these restraints affect her approach, and that of many other creatives, and could risk suppression and censorship rather than greater expressive freedom, while potentially improving certain material by reducing stereotypes and so on. Musicians would not be immune to the trend: Morrissey has occasionally been called out and curtailed anyway. The stricter application seems new though.

What do people think? :brows:
 
Morrissey's 2015 novel, List of the Lost, was promoted as being about the reality of what is true battling against what is permitted to be true, explored through a plot revolving around a relay team in 70s America whose members have deep emotional bonds. After one of them accidentally kills a homeless man, all of their lives go off the rails.

We've had the scholarly article suggesting that most reviews overlooked innovative and apt use of themes and metaphors from Queer Gothic fiction - https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/scholarly-article-about-list-of-the-lost.149575/

If the book had come out in the current cultural climate, it might have encountered a growing form of pushback, for which sensitivity readers are increasingly employed.

Prolific award-winning Irish playwright Deirdre Kinahan recently discussed writing fiction from outside personal experience to portray non-self voices. Cases of dispute over the right of actors to play characters whose lifestyles they do not share are no longer rare. What is being demanded is that, instead of an artist pretending and guessing how others are, the scripts should ideally be enacted by people directly living the dramas being described, to achieve the desired standard of authenticity. Writers of characters are also coming under fire in this way, with significant implications not just for cost and practice but for imaginative latitude too.

Because Deirdre Kinahan's career from the start focuses on people marginalised from the mainstream, these restraints affect her approach, and that of many other creatives, and could risk suppression and censorship rather than greater expressive freedom, while potentially improving certain material by reducing stereotypes and so on. Musicians would not be immune to the trend: Morrissey has occasionally been called out and curtailed anyway. The stricter application seems new though.

What do people think? :brows:
What do I think?

I think that, as a possible topic of conversation, it has huge potential to generate the sort of vomit-inducing pretentiousness which should be hijacked or, better yet, ignored by all right-thinking people.

Still, we are where we are.
 
More of the absurdity of our current “current cultural climate”. Imagination: not allowed.

As for Moz’s novel, I haven’t read it yet, so no opinion.
 
What kind of argument is this? Morrissey must be good at writing novels just because he has written one?
If someone builds a brick wall and it is lopsided, you don’t have to be a builder to know that it is lopsided.
If you were a builder you might appreciate that actually its you that is lopsided.
 
What kind of argument is this? Morrissey must be good at writing novels just because he has written one?
If someone builds a brick wall and it is lopsided, you don’t have to be a builder to know that it is lopsided.
I don't think Morrissey is very good at writing novels, but I'm glad he did and I admire the courage. I don't think my novel would be very interesting if I wrote one. I would never criticize anyone for fulfilling their creative needs. This to do with brick walls (that you mention) has more to do with craft than to do with art, I think. I'm not making any arguments, why on earth would I do that?
 
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Has anyone run into the kind of objections that Deirdre Kinahan describes; being accused of creating alien 'othered' characters that cannot be authentic because the artist's life is not identical to those characters? Wouldn't this view rule out most fiction?

Morrisssey's two books are interesting examples for this issue. Compared to the novel, the Autobiography is his lived experience, and it's widely hailed as pretty great.
 
I don't think Morrissey is very good at writing novels, but I'm glad he did and I admire the courage. I don't think my novel would be very interesting if I wrote one. I would never criticize anyone for fulfilling their creative needs.
Somehow I feel it didn't got a fair chance. Malarkey makes a good case that the English press rounded on it in tandem to trash it in reviews. But some good reviews got through e.g. https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/scholarly-article-about-list-of-the-lost.149575/ I probably didn't give it the attention it deserved at the time, but it'd be nice for it to eventually become some kind of cult classic. The plot and treatment are quite unusual and unique.
 
Has anyone run into the kind of objections that Deirdre Kinahan describes; being accused of creating alien 'othered' characters that cannot be authentic because the artist's life is not identical to those characters?
The problem is 'List of the Lost' shows Morrissey is incapable of creating 'alien othered characters': all of the characters speak in his voice, have a penchant for awful puns of the 'Fishy Sunak' variety, and will break into pages long rants about vegetarianism, how much more physically and sexually attractive they find men than women, or how much they hate Maggie Thatcher, etc (not forgetting sex scenes which makes the reader suspect the author has no idea how women's bodies even work - no, they cannot do barrel-rolls with their breasts). This, along with the atrocious prose, is part of why it fails as a work of fiction. In large part it's less a novel and more a series of thinly-disguised authorial rants.
 
sex scenes which makes the reader suspect the author has no idea how women's bodies even work - no, they cannot do barrel-rolls with their breasts).
It is not really so strange if you consider that the author first at the age of 27 had «just discovered» that girls vary in size. Up until that point he lived in oblivion (as obvious as snow, as if we didn’t know). And now, again, he lives in oblivion, which suits him very well. Pretty girls make graves and the rythm of life goes round round... You may very well be feeling offended or let down by these words of defense, but you should be carefull when you walk on these old broken stones, because they are our feelings!
 
It is not really so strange if you consider that the author first at the age of 27 had «just discovered» that girls vary in size. Up until that point he lived in oblivion (as obvious as snow, as if we didn’t know). And now, again, he lives in oblivion, which suits him very well. Pretty girls make graves and the rythm of life goes round round... You may very well be feeling offended or let down by these words of defense, but you should be carefull when you walk on these old broken stones, because they are our feelings!
Judge Judy Reaction GIF
 
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