Johnny Marr, Mike Joyce, Noel Gallagher and Billy Duffy at Manchester City match @ Etihad Stadium (May 19, 2024)

This is an interesting picture.




Screenshot posted by Famous when dead:

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Anyway! f*** all y’all! All i know for sure is that Born in the USA is a song of unparalleled and profound depths and emotive intelligence that the lyrical acuity and musical sensitivity of Morrissey/Smiths could never even hope to reach! o_O
 
Anyway! f*** all y’all! All i know for sure is that Born in the USA is a song of unparalleled and profound depths and emotive intelligence that the lyrical acuity and musical sensitivity of Morrissey/Smiths could never even hope to reach! o_O
I bet you’re one of the geniuses who thinks that song is about how great the US is.

If Moz ever wrote a short story put to music as good as this one, I’d be happy (the last verse is the best).

Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
'Til you spend half your life just coverin' up


I was born in the U.S.A

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man


Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says, "Son if it was up to me"
Went down to see my V.A. man
He said, "Son, don't you understand"

I had a brother at Khe Sanh
Fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone
He had a woman he loved in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms now

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go
 
The two figures in my book that towers high above anyone else are Bruce Springsteen and Elvis Presley.
 
I mean, what you see as ‘defensive preciousness’ may simply be because people are more passionate about an artist like Morrissey, rather than for an artist like Bruce.

Why do you think that is?
You can't be serious if you think people are not passionate about Bruce Springsteen. He has had such an amazingly successful career, literally tons of accolades, one of the best selling artists ever, literally millions of more fans than Morrissey and is in his 70s and still plays hours long shows. He has over 20 million listeners on Spotify. He's written countless songs. He just had to cancel a bunch of shows due to his health and made a video to apologize to his fans, told them how much he appreciates them and promised to come back - which is something Morrissey would never do. I am pretty sure that inspires a lot of passion - healthy passion.
I think people mistake their 'passion' for Morrissey for their psychological dependence on him which is evidenced in the over the top defenses of him here and having fans who want to eat like he does, listen to the music he does, watch the films he does, read the books he does, quote him in the cringiest of ways - in other words literally take on his identity - the real answer is the Springsteen fans simply are not psychologically dependent on a rock/pop star to define them.
 
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I think it’s easier for some people to be passionate about someone like Moz. To be honest, Moz doesn’t have that many nuances. He’s often (not always) very straightforward. Easy to grasp, in some respects. Very adolescent in some ways. Which of course is a large part of Moz’ appeal. He speaks to the part of people that is still 16, clumsy and shy. Which is nice. He writes a (albeit fantastic) song like Life is a Pigsty, whereas Bruce is more subtle and writes a song like Something in the Night or Downbound Train.

Bruce has never stopped evolving, whereas one could argue that Morrissey is basically writing the same kinds of songs as he did when he was 24. Bruce’s last album was about aging and watching your friends die. You’ll never see him writing another Spirit in the Night again, yet What Kind of People…could easily have been written during The Smiths (albeit much better). And yes, of course that same album also has Hurling and River, but those feel more like anomalies than anything else. His main interest is still to portray himself as a contrarian and a misanthropic outsider, just like he did in 1983.

One could also argue that Morrissey is very defeatist, whereas Bruce never fails to offer a sliver of light no matter how dark the subject matter is. Bruce tells us there is still hope and it’s still worthwhile ploughing through. I only rarely hear that in Moz’ music. I’m not sure what this has to do with passion. It was just an observation. But it might have something to do with the fact that Bruce plays for 60-70 000 fervently devoted people per night.

And of course, Moz’ indie pop/rock has always been considered much cooler and hip by the kids than the Americana of Bruce.

I’m generalizing here, of course. But I’m not way off.
 
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I did really enjoy his Tunnel of Love album back in the day.
From the 90s onward I’ve yet to hear anything by Bruce that really graps me.
Really? Not even The Ghost of Tom Joad? I mean, there are tons of more stuff from the past 30 years that should resonate with many, but none more than that near perfect album, I don’t think.

Eleven astonishingly great Springsteen songs from the 90s onwards:

















https://open.spotify.com/track/29b7...&context=spotify:album:13pZUSPWE87x40BorpgLx2

https://open.spotify.com/track/4hFP...&context=spotify:album:13pZUSPWE87x40BorpgLx2

https://open.spotify.com/track/67xajm8BFcu46VmOuIuPq9?si=9h3P9baYSzWqjY9aFSjSjA
 
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A bit too subdued and bleak for my taste, Tom Joad.
Listened to it once or twice when it came out, that was enough for me.

Thanks, will give those eleven a try (y)
 
The two figures in my book that towers high above anyone else are Bruce Springsteen and Elvis Presley.

I like some of Bruce's stuff but the only US bands artists I've really got into are Bob Mould (solo rather than Husker Du) I see him every time he tours in the UK, The Ramones, who I was lucky enough to see a couple of times back in the day and The National, although they've gone a bit shit since Sleep Well Beast. I enjoy seeing the Killers and Green Day live but that's more of a wife thing and I just go along to keep her company.
 
I like some of Bruce's stuff but the only US bands artists I've really got into are Bob Mould (solo rather than Husker Du) I see him every time he tours in the UK, The Ramones, who I was lucky enough to see a couple of times back in the day and The National, although they've gone a bit shit since Sleep Well Beast. I enjoy seeing the Killers and Green Day live but that's more of a wife thing and I just go along to keep her company.
I really hate to be this categorical, so I’ll shut up now, but let me just say that for the most part, in broadly general terms, British indie music resonates less with me now than it did before.

When did you see The Ramones? One of my all time favorite bands.
 
I really hate to be this categorical, so I’ll shut up now, but let me just say that for the most part, in broadly general terms, British indie music resonates less with me now than it did before.

When did you see The Ramones? One of my all time favorite bands.

Twice, Manchester Apollo in 1980 and Preston Guildhall in 1986. They were brilliant on both occasions and after the Manchester gig I so wanted to be like Johnny Ramone, he was the coolest guy I had ever seen at that point in my life.

IMG_2573.jpeg
 
Twice, Manchester Apollo in 1980 and Preston Guildhall in 1986. They were brilliant on both occasions and after the Manchester gig I so wanted to be like Johnny Ramone, he was the coolest guy I had ever seen at that point in my life.

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Haha, I truly respect that. One of the baddest SOB’s in rocknroll history, just by his mere playing and countenance. They had great records out in both 80 and 86, so you would rightly assume I’m jealous.
 
Haha, I truly respect that. One of the baddest SOB’s in rocknroll history, just by his mere playing and countenance. They had great records out in both 80 and 86, so you would rightly assume I’m jealous.

Funny how times change, I've just managed to get
tickets to see Marc Almond in Manchester in September at The Bridgewater Hall, it's someone ive always wanted to see as I think his voice is incredible!!

 
Just been to see Mike Joyce at The Bowden Rooms, talked about meeting JM at the City Match, first met for a while apparently
See:
Maybe?
Regards,
FWD.
 
Yeah but to some fans, any form of disagreement is disrespect. And that's not workable either, that shuts down discussion.

I often find what you write, however harsh, coherent and informative, Amy, while noting this much stronger reaction when it comes to questioning Marr, even to the point of trying to shut the discussion down?

I criticise Morrissey where criticism is warranted.
Aren't you the fine fellow, one hand on holster, the other on the gavel? Do you browbeat people around you like that? At least you've come out straight and stated your antipathy towards Morrissey; put it on public record, if you like. We know where we stand with you now. Not that we didn't before. Your form mauling users is traceable across numerous threads, suggesting you've been on Morrissey's tail longer than six years. Maybe even dating back to an interview he did from 1989, when he stated, "a lot of the male followers who are, as far as the eye can see, natural specimens, have very, very anguished and devilishly rabid desires in my direction. And I find that quite historic.” - https://www.nme.com/features/morris...nd-the-smiths-in-classic-nme-interview-756834

So from now on, this is how I picture you

that does not mean people should not have positive feelings about Johnny or Alain or Mike or anyone who is not Morrissey.
But by extension, the gospel according to poor Golly here demands that people should not have positive feelings about Morrissey. Predictable, if nothing else.
Bruce has never stopped evolving, whereas one could argue that Morrissey is basically writing the same kinds of songs as he did when he was 24.
Or one could argue that where the arrested development has taken place is in certain listeners.
Even around here, Morrissey can be one in many artists whose work has meaningful impact on us – which can wax or wane with time and the quality of work
While your criticism goes a bit too far at times, imo, what you share about your experiences on other boards adds some really helpful perspective to understanding what goes on here. Thanks for that. As for website activity and how it is enabled, I've started another thread for banter on such matters - https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/hate-in-moderation.152395/
 

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