Johnny Marr made guitar magazine's all time list

[Mariano Apuya]

Johnny Marr made 22 of the all time best guitarist of the century in a guitar magazine. It's a magazine published and printed in the U.K.. I didn't buy the magazine as I don't have any money but I read it at Borders. Johnny also made the top 12 most overrated guitarist of which the number one was Noel Gallager. Suprisingly Eric Clapton and B.B. King made the overratedlist. The accolades don't end there Electronics latest release is one of the best albums of 1999. The caption for the aforesaid award said something like Marr and Summers best work did not end with the Smiths and New Order respectively. There were other categories like best riff so on and so forth but I only found these three that link to Johnny Marr.

 

[Cili Barnes]

I'm surprised he placed so low.

> Johnny Marr made 22 of the all time best guitarist of the
> century in a guitar magazine. It's a magazine published and
> printed in the U.K.. I didn't buy the magazine as I don't have
> any money but I read it at Borders. Johnny also made the top 12
> most overrated guitarist of which the number one was Noel
> Gallager. Suprisingly Eric Clapton and B.B. King made the
> overratedlist. The accolades don't end there Electronics latest
> release is one of the best albums of 1999. The caption for the
> aforesaid award said something like Marr and Summers best work
> did not end with the Smiths and New Order respectively. There
> were other categories like best riff so on and so forth but I
> only found these three that link to Johnny Marr.

He usually places within the top 3, sometimes 5--especially when we're talking about a UK magazine. B.B. King overrated? That's shameful. They ought to be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: I'm surprised he placed so low.

> He usually places within the top 3, sometimes 5--especially when
> we're talking about a UK magazine.

They were probably considering every guitarist of all time/nation (Mariano, correct me if I'm wrong). In that case, the Jimi Hendrixes, Stevie Ray Vaughans, and [god forbid] Eddie Van Halens were listed, and because of the "old" factor, had to be placed above Johnny by default. I've heard Johnny do "Purple Haze", and he pulls it off great. I just hope Johnny didn't lose to jabronies like Kurt Cobain, Yngwie Malmsteen, or John Squire [whose guitar playing increasingly sucks since the Roses' demise].

As far as Eric Clapton goes, I think he is @#!!!ing overrated. His only good work was in the Yardbirds, whom weren't really that good until Beck and Page joined the fold. Blind Faith and Cream are just stoner music crap, and I wish that Eric, not Conor, fell out the window that day. That way, the tears can stay in heaven, and the jeers here on earth. That song he did with Babyface was such a piece of monkey crap.

 

[Colin]

Re: I'm surprised he placed so low.

I just hope Johnny didn't lose to jabronies like Kurt Cobain,
> Yngwie Malmsteen, or John Squire [whose guitar playing
> increasingly sucks since the Roses' demise].
--------
KC wasn't a guitar god, but then he never claimed to be and few have claimed that he was. Squire was the best guitarist in the world for a while there . . .

As far as Eric Clapton goes, I think he is @#!!! ing overrated.
> His only good work was in the Yardbirds, whom weren't really
> that good until Beck and Page joined the fold. Blind Faith and
> Cream are just stoner music crap, and I wish that Eric, not
> Conor, fell out the window that day. That way, the tears can
> stay in heaven, and the jeers here on earth. That song he did
> with Babyface was such a piece of monkey crap.
--------
Well, anyone who is proclaimed "God" will end up being overrated, right? I think it's unfair to judge Clapton by the work he's done in his fifties.

 

[Cili Barnes]

Rating guitarists

> They were probably considering every guitarist of all
> time/nation (Mariano, correct me if I'm wrong). In that case,
> the Jimi Hendrixes, Stevie Ray Vaughans, and [god forbid] Eddie
> Van Halens were listed, and because of the "old"
> factor, had to be placed above Johnny by default.

It's a very difficult thing, trying to rate musicians--especially guitarists, when there are people like Stevie Ray Vaughan, Hendrix, Chet Thomas, Satriani, etc. How do you compare a guitarist with a musical philosophy like Johnny Marr's with a flashy technician such as Steve Vai? I suppose it would depend on the magazine, but I've always placed artistic merit before technical ability... but to be "great," I think one needs both. In that regard, Johnny would place very highly on my list. He may not be playing bombastic solos, but he's a composer of perfect pop songs. And one would be hard pressed to find a guitarist with as much individuality and versatility.

> I've heard
> Johnny do "Purple Haze", and he pulls it off great. I
> just hope Johnny didn't lose to jabronies like Kurt Cobain,
> Yngwie Malmsteen, or John Squire [whose guitar playing
> increasingly sucks since the Roses' demise].

If Kurt Cobain made that list, I'd be upset. He was never a "guitarist" first and foremost. John Squire actually has gotten better and better as a guitarist. It's his writing that's become stale. He needs Ian. I reckon Squire's become too good for his own good.

 

[3 storms]

Re: Rating guitarists

I will probaly get slaughtered for this but Johnny Marr, Hendrix..it is all like rather comparing apples and eggs. They are all great guitarists in their own way. Well, here comes those rocks, my favorite ovrall guitarist is David Gilmour because he has been able to manage a great deal of style at the same time distancing himself from the famous band he plays for. The funny thing is that i cannot picture many of these guitarists "jamming" together becase they are so different.

 

[Get me away from here i'm dying]

people just dont know

> It's a very difficult thing, trying to rate
> musicians--especially guitarists, when there are people like
> Stevie Ray Vaughan, Hendrix, Chet Thomas, Satriani, etc. How do
> you compare a guitarist with a musical philosophy like Johnny
> Marr's with a flashy technician such as Steve Vai? I suppose it
> would depend on the magazine, but I've always placed artistic
> merit before technical ability... but to be "great," I
> think one needs both. In that regard, Johnny would place very
> highly on my list. He may not be playing bombastic solos, but
> he's a composer of perfect pop songs. And one would be hard
> pressed to find a guitarist with as much individuality and
> versatility.

> If Kurt Cobain made that list, I'd be upset. He was never a
> "guitarist" first and foremost. John Squire actually
> has gotten better and better as a guitarist. It's his writing
> that's become stale. He needs Ian. I reckon Squire's become too
> good for his own good.

What about david gilmour?.....give the him the knock .....umph!

 

[Cili Barnes]

Re: Rating guitarists

> I will probaly get slaughtered for this but Johnny Marr,
> Hendrix..it is all like rather comparing apples and eggs. They
> are all great guitarists in their own way.

Yeah, chalk and cheese, definitely... but there are ways to do it still. I'd say that rather than comparing one guitarist to another, it would be smarter (and more reliable/less biased) to look at it on different, relative levels. I'd personally look at the guitarist in terms of his/her context (era, peers, band), his/her contribution to music as art, and then technical skill. I'd also be sure not to overlook how respected he/she is by his/her fellow guitarists, because that at times can be a very good measure of his or her lasting influence. And I personally feel that the best judges are those who've a proper understanding of the job which is being appraised. As a journalist, too often one is simply a fan with a forum, and it's easy to forget just how crippled by ignorance one is.

> Well, here comes
> those rocks, my favorite ovrall guitarist is David Gilmour
> because he has been able to manage a great deal of style at the
> same time distancing himself from the famous band he plays for.

David Gilmour's good, but remember that he's basically a blues-based guitarist and that's what he does. Almost every guitarist that I know of is like that--they find their style and move around within that universe, but Johnny Marr is the only guitarist that I can think of who has an unmistakable identity, but still has an immensely broad range of styles crossing just about all genres except heavy metal. I think there's something to be said about a musician like that. I feel that his impact as a musician is still far from being fully realized.

> The funny thing is that i cannot picture many of these
> guitarists "jamming" together becase they are so
> different.

Also because some are dead. Just kidding. That was in bad taste, I know. The funny thing is, I can imagine Johnny playing with any guitarist in the world. If you really wanted to boil him down to just a single origin, I'd say that he's basically a shuffling blues/folk guitarist, and that type of guitar could fit into any music; it would just be further back or forward in the mix.

 

[Mariano Apuya]

Re: I'm surprised he placed so low.

Yes it's true it was ranked like that, of all time. And yes, Johnny did lose to jabronies like Kurt Cobain, in fact I think if I remember it correctly Cobain is in the top 5
> They were probably considering every guitarist of all
> time/nation (Mariano, correct me if I'm wrong). In that case,
> the Jimi Hendrixes, Stevie Ray Vaughans, and [god forbid] Eddie
> Van Halens were listed, and because of the "old"
> factor, had to be placed above Johnny by default. I've heard
> Johnny do "Purple Haze", and he pulls it off great. I
> just hope Johnny didn't lose to jabronies like Kurt Cobain,
> Yngwie Malmsteen, or John Squire [whose guitar playing
> increasingly sucks since the Roses' demise].

> As far as Eric Clapton goes, I think he is @#!!! ing overrated.
> His only good work was in the Yardbirds, whom weren't really
> that good until Beck and Page joined the fold. Blind Faith and
> Cream are just stoner music crap, and I wish that Eric, not
> Conor, fell out the window that day. That way, the tears can
> stay in heaven, and the jeers here on earth. That song he did
> with Babyface was such a piece of monkey crap.

 

[Mariano Apuya]

Re: Rating guitarists

> It's a very difficult thing, trying to rate
> musicians--especially guitarists, when there are people like
> Stevie Ray Vaughan, Hendrix, Chet Thomas, Satriani, etc. How do
> you compare a guitarist with a musical philosophy like Johnny
> Marr's with a flashy technician such as Steve Vai? I suppose it
> would depend on the magazine, but I've always placed artistic
> merit before technical ability... but to be "great," I
> think one needs both. In that regard, Johnny would place very
> highly on my list. He may not be playing bombastic solos, but
> he's a composer of perfect pop songs. And one would be hard
> pressed to find a guitarist with as much individuality and
> versatility.

> If Kurt Cobain made that list, I'd be upset. He was never a
> "guitarist" first and foremost. John Squire actually
> has gotten better and better as a guitarist. It's his writing
> that's become stale. He needs Ian. I reckon Squire's become too
> good for his own good.

 

[Cili]

Eric Clapton

I guess this doesn't have much to do with the thread, but... did you know that Clapton played the guitar solo in the Beatles' "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"? That's a pretty amazing solo wouldn't you say? If I remember correctly, he used his famous cherry Les Paul (the one he used just before he switched to Stratocasters). I've heard that (and this is purely gossip) Johnny bought HIS cherry Les Paul because of the one Clapton used to play--in my opinion, I think it's the prettiest color.

Ever heard of the saying: "six degrees of separation?"

 

[Greasetea the squire]

3 storms and Cili

I have to agree that David Gilmour is an amazing guitarist but Cili is right, comparing them together instead of technical prowess and performance would only cloud the issue. This would be the equivalent of who is the best singer..I like Ella Fitzgerald and I also enjoy Tils Landers of rammstein..both entirely different, see? I am not technically advanced to debate on what the categories of guitarists should be, but I think Marr is incredible at ryhthm control and innovation. 3 storms sorry about my asinine behavior and Cili, thank you for another wonderful picture..aaahhhhhh.

 

[Fabricio]

Where`s Robert Johnson?

Robert Johnson, the most creative and brillant guitarrist ever is quoted in the list???

> He usually places within the top 3, sometimes 5--especially when
> we're talking about a UK magazine. B.B. King overrated? That's
> shameful. They ought to be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Cili Barnes]

He's at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> Robert Johnson, the most creative and brillant guitarrist ever
> is quoted in the list???

I'm sure he's on that list somewhere. I get to see lots of guitar magazines, and I haven't seen many "best of all time" list that didn't have Robert Johnson on it somewhere.

I think Robert Johnson is great. I've never played him during the day. His music just doesn't seem right for the Sun--you know, the whole devil thing. His box-album, "The Complete Recordings," is one of my favourites (next to "Heart and Soul.Joy Division"), and the design is very nice. It's funny, when you look into his eyes, you almost want to believe in the myth. He does look possessed in that one famous shot of him in his suit with guitar.

Something that you might find interesting, if you didn't know already Fabricio. Eric Clapton, when he was younger, LOVED Robert Johnson's music so much, he wouldn't even talk to people who didn't know who he was. If you want to hear Clapton covering one of Johnson's songs, you can find "Malted Milk" on "Clapton: Unplugged," which is very good by the way.

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: I'm surprised he placed so low.

> KC wasn't a guitar god, but then he never claimed to be and few
> have claimed that he was.

Sadly, guitar magazines ignore his proclaimations, and still lock him in the stockyards, rather than the cellar.

> Squire was the best guitarist in the
> world for a while there . . .

I wish he didn't go classic rock all the sudden. He'd still rule the world otherwise.

> Well, anyone who is proclaimed "God" will end up being
> overrated, right? I think it's unfair to judge Clapton by the
> work he's done in his fifties.

I can't stand anything else he's done. Plus, a bluesman SHOULD NOT be using @#!!!ing active pickups. It totally destroys the point of tone. P.S., do you recall the name of his last album? I don't.

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: Rating guitarists

>I suppose it
> would depend on the magazine, but I've always placed artistic
> merit before technical ability... but to be "great," I
> think one needs both.

That's the mentality I wish most guitarheads should have. I am sick of hearing how 'genius' are the guitarwork of Daniel Johns or Johnny Lang. When, in fact, Lang took enough lessons to learn every SRV song, and make a career on covering them [listen to his music, and it's obvious that he's a biter!]. Or, Daniel Johns just sucks, and if you take away his overdrive channel, his music is absolute @#!!!--he's Pearl Jam in pajamas.

> In that regard, Johnny would place very
> highly on my list. He may not be playing bombastic solos, but
> he's a composer of perfect pop songs. And one would be hard
> pressed to find a guitarist with as much individuality and
> versatility.

I've heard his solos for Electrafixion and Bryan Ferry. His solos are fantastic. Let's not forget he did solo rarely in The Smiths. Recall the "Boston solo" in "Shoplifters...", which wasn't so flashy, but a great bridge. That's why he's great; he can be flashy if wants to, but only where flash is needed, otherwise he's writing a song with his guitar. To his the guitar is an instrument, not the purpose. Alot of his parts are really @#!!!ing hard to play [any guitarist who claims he can play all of them is either a @#!!!ing liar, or a loser who plays it completely wrong]; he can't recall most of his Smiths parts today--he's too hard, ever for himself sometimes. And, he's done it all: blues, funk, soul, country, modern rock, rock and roll.

> If Kurt Cobain made that list, I'd be upset. He was never a
> "guitarist" first and foremost.

Once again, he should be in the cellar, but the ranchers keep putting him in the stockyards.

> John Squire actually
> has gotten better and better as a guitarist. It's his writing
> that's become stale. He needs Ian. I reckon Squire's become too
> good for his own good.

I think his tone is horrible now. He sounds like a bad 70s cover artist, and I really miss the lush sound he had in the Roses.

I don't know why all the guitarists in the UK are putting their effects away. The UK guitarists come up with the best sounds with effects, but now guys like Andy Bell, Bernard Butler, and John Squire are playing through these stupid Class A Tube Amps. It's a new century, and we need to stop using our grandparent' guitar equipment. Someone in the UK better start using MIDI equipment, or else Limp Bizkit will never die.

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

FU.CK KURT COBAIN!!!!!!!

> Yes it's true it was ranked like that, of all time. And yes,
> Johnny did lose to jabronies like Kurt Cobain, in fact I think
> if I remember it correctly Cobain is in the top 5

I can't stand it. The guy never intended to be a guitar hero, and he is heralded one. What a load of crap. Now, more than ever, I wish he never died. I just rather see him stay alive, and watching every album he makes suck more and more than before.

I would rather Johnny lose to Ace Frehley than Kurt Cobain. Kurt doesn't know crap from crisco about guitar, and it's because of him American music sucks.

Johnny affected the UK, and several American bands in a postivie way. Kurt is only famous because he died. Plain and simple. His only revolution was making easy guitar playing a fad.

 

[Fabricio]

Re: He's at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> I'm sure he's on that list somewhere. I get to see lots of
> guitar magazines, and I haven't seen many "best of all
> time" list that didn't have Robert Johnson on it somewhere.

hhehehe.. I am easier now...

> I think Robert Johnson is great.

You have a really good taste! Morrissey, Robert Johnson and Beatles! Now it lacks only Madredeus and Black Sabbath...

>I've never played him during
> the day. His music just doesn't seem right for the Sun--you
> know, the whole devil thing.

Well, I am catholic, and I don't know all his lyrics (I have to read them...). But I think Robert Johnson is more like Morrissey in his "There's a place in hell from me and my friends" for example. It seems much more that he doesn't deserve heaven because he thinks he is evil - as Morrissey does in another song ("Satan rejected my soul"). And I don't think this is a bad characteristic.

And the lyrics I know... they are brilliant!!! See Love in vain, or Kindhearted Woman blues (where he says the bad woman "studies evil all the time"...).

> His box-album, "The Complete
> Recordings," is one of my favourites (next to "Heart
> and Soul.Joy Division"), and the design is very nice.

I have this box too. I bought by internet, and it was expensive to me because our money (real) lost 1/2 of its value, but it was a great business.

>It's
> funny, when you look into his eyes, you almost want to believe
> in the myth. He does look possessed in that one famous shot of
> him in his suit with guitar.

I don't agree... he seems a happy guy....

> Something that you might find interesting, if you didn't know
> already Fabricio. Eric Clapton, when he was younger, LOVED
> Robert Johnson's music so much, he wouldn't even talk to people
> who didn't know who he was.

I read his article in the box and I was very amazed. I always quote this Clapton's attitude when I want to explain my admiration for Robert Johnson.

>If you want to hear Clapton covering
> one of Johnson's songs, you can find "Malted Milk" on
> "Clapton: Unplugged," which is very good by the way.

Malted Milk unplugged? It is one of the Johnson's song I prefer, and I really love unplugged blues (Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Lightnin' Hopkins). I have to buy this cd!!!

And Clapton released a double cd called "blues" with only his blues old recordings. Do you know it? Is this is good? (I am almost racist against white blues singers... hehehehe)

 

[Cili]

My meager guitar talk (no Morrissey content); plus a suggestion for MMM

> I think his tone is horrible now. He sounds like a bad 70s cover
> artist, and I really miss the lush sound he had in the Roses.

Here's a story you'll be able to appreciate Triple M. Johnny Squire used some of the advance he received from Geffen Records to buy one of those rare and coveted original 1959 Les Paul's, which he adored (pardon the pun). You can see John playing it in just about every photo of him as a Stone Rose circa the time of "Second Coming." Unfortunately, when the Roses disbanded, Geffen took back ALL of the Roses equipment--including John's beloved guitar. Can you imagine? Those sell for about $10,000 American, don't they?

> I don't know why all the guitarists in the UK are putting their
> effects away. The UK guitarists come up with the best sounds
> with effects, but now guys like Andy Bell, Bernard Butler, and
> John Squire are playing through these stupid Class A Tube Amps.
> It's a new century, and we need to stop using our grandparent'
> guitar equipment. Someone in the UK better start using MIDI
> equipment, or else Limp Bizkit will never die.

If you haven't already, you should check out the brilliant "Loveless" by My Bloody Valentine, which I consider to be one of the absolute best albums of the 90's. Kevin Shields' guitars sound impossibly large; it's like listening to a hurricane. If you don't mind undecipherable lyrics (a la Cocteau Twins), nothing should prevent you from loving--or at the very least appreciating--this album. I know that "Loveless" isn't obscure or anything, but if somehow you've managed to avoid it, stop what you're doing and immediately take yourself over to your nearest record shop and buy it. You'll thank me for it.

 

[Christopher]

Re: FU.CK KURT COBAIN!!!!!!!

> Johnny affected the UK, and several American bands in a postivie
> way. Kurt is only famous because he died. Plain and simple.

He was very famous when alive.

I remember I passed months hearing only Nevermind in 1992.

>His
> only revolution was making easy guitar playing a fad.

Do you think Ramones are crap because their music are easy to play?