Johnny Marr made guitar magazine's all time list

F

Fabricio

Guest
Re: He's at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> Oh, I was only kidding. But just for sake of conversation, I
> don't think it's a characteristic worth evaluating since it
> doesn't harm anybody.

Well, I'm kinda... well... I have always been like this... I don't know if other people like it...

> I'll look into the band. I'm always looking for decent new
> music. If you enjoy beautiful and unique female voices, try the
> Sundays. Harriet Wheeler has a high, very pretty voice; it's
> wholly female and very atmostpheric. My advice is to skip their
> newest effort, "Static and Silence," but both
> "Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic" (their debut) and
> "Blind" (their sophomore album) are very good. In
> fact, many Smiths fans are fans of the Sundays as well--their
> styles are very similar in that it's good vocals, and melodic
> jangly guitars forming the backbone of the tunes. Early in their
> career, there were endless comparisons with the SMiths in the
> press, and David Gavurin (the guitarist) was often accused of
> being an ersatz Johnny Marr--although in my opinion, he's not
> good enough to be legitimately compared to Johnny. On a side
> note, I once asked Harriet how she felt about being compared to
> the Smiths, and she was very nonchalant about it. One would
> think the band were heavily influenced by the Smiths because of
> how the sound, but that's only marginally true. Anyway, give
> them a listen if you haven't already. I think you'll be
> *pleased*. ;-)

Oh, thank you about the suggestion. I never heard anything about the band. I'll try to see something.

> :) Well, here's the whole story as I know it. Black Sabbath
> were just signed and Tommi Iommi was ready to leave his factory
> job, when on his final day his hand was caught in machinery. He
> lost, I believe, the tips of his middle and ring fingers on his
> left hand--and he's a right handed guitar player. He thought,
> understandably, that his dreams were effectively finished, but
> ingenuity saved him. He made some changes in his guitars and
> playing style. He tuned down to loosen the tension of his
> strings, then placed leather caps on his fingers/stubs. The
> result of these changes is what you hear and recognize today as
> some of the darkest rock and roll around.

This is really great. A great story from a really great band!

> Hey, that's misogynistic! But it makes sense. You know how
> Robert Johnson died right? He finally fooled around with one too
> many women, and he was poisoned.

Oh, in the most part of his songs he complains about women - sometimes bitterly, sometimes ironically, sometimes both. He is known as misogynist indeed. But perhaps he had reason, as a woman probably poisoned him (laughs)

> Now you've made me feel a fool for saying that I laugh from one
> of his songs! Clapton would hate me.

Oh, no. As some Smiths or Morrissey songs, Robert Johnson's ones sometimes are soulful and funny at the same time!

> Hmm, I've never heard of anyone referring to John Lee Hooker as
> masculine before.

This is the strange way I use to hear songs... I pratically never understand or pay attention in English lyrics, so I can put my imagination to work.

But hear his voice anyway. I think is too much masculine, as a John Wayne from blues (see that John Wayne was masculine without being aggressively machist, but rather ironic). Am I crazy?

> It's a nice listen; not better than what you'd expect but it's
> still good.

I'll see!
 
C

Christopher Klein

Guest
Re: FU.CK KURT COBAIN!!!!!!!

> How much of an influence was he between 1992 and 1994? All the
> copycats came AFTER he offed himself. And, if you look at the
> ENTIRE 1990s decade, and examine the charts, it was a rap
> decade. On the note that 1999 ended, you'll see that all the
> teenyboppers and homeboys came out on top. Sadly, Dr. Dre and
> New Kids on the Block were the real 90s influence, not any rock
> artist. I hate to admit that, but that is what happens when rock
> and roll looks up to hack musicians--that eventually kill
> themselves.

Most magazines in December 1999 showed Kurt Cobain as the most important musician in the 90's, so there's no more discussion about it.

And the argument you used (rap and Backstreet) only reinforces the fact that Kurt Cobain was the most important rock singer and musician in the nineties.

> I never brought up the Pistols anywhere in this thread. For
> conversation sake, I do like them. You have to love them because
> they are jerks. The only Pistol I didn't like was Sid. (I mean
> he was cool, but he couldn't play!) Plus, the didn't hold back
> about what they were gonna say. If they wanted to say
> "f.uck off", they'd do it on BBC television, where
> some other guy would be verbose and passive about it. And they
> had alot of "f.uck you" songs. As far as Steve Jones'
> playing is concerned, he's not a god, but he did make alot of
> essential riffs.

> Prog rock like Rush is horrible, but the stuff like old King
> Crimson is kinda neat to listen to. Would I emulate they guitar
> lines? No. 6 hours of masturbating would be the same thing as
> playing a Rush album.

Well, we have to agree about something, don't you think?

> Common sense as in chord progressions. You know I-IV-V, right?
> That's every Ramones song. Grab your axe and play it. You'll
> see.

And even this way they are the best band ever (after Smiths and Beatles, of course). You see? Complicated chords in one thing. Quality in rock is another.

> Touche. You see, people forget that Mudhoney was a bigger
> Seattle band, but because they didn't produce any hits, it all
> went to Nirvana. Hell, even Queensryche had a bigger following
> pre 1992. Guitar magazines overglorify certain players as
> 'innovators' when they are sloppy, yet crafty enough to fit it
> in the right measure. That is the whole point I'm trying to make
> in this thread. And, right now, someone out there is better than
> Jimi Hendrix--he doesn't have a record contract. He is some
> anonymous kid practicing in his bedroom.

Well, my point with you was the fact you criticized Kurt Cobain for being a simplistic guitarist, didn't you? I am saying that this has no relationship as a quality of the music (as you see in Rush). So where are we now?
 
C

Cili Barnes

Guest
Re: He's at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> Well, I'm kinda... well... I have always been like this... I
> don't know if other people like it...

Well, there's nothing wrong with being a pleasant person Fabricio. By the way, is your name pronounced "Fab-REE-kee-yo?"

> Oh, thank you about the suggestion. I never heard anything about
> the band. I'll try to see something.

You've never heard of the Sundays? Oh, well then you're in for a pleasant surprise! Talk about out of this world... Harriet Wheeler has a phenomenal, angelic voice. Buy both of the albums I suggested, "Reading, Writing and Arithmetic" and "Blind." They've written contemporary classics like "Here's Where the Story Ends," on RWA (their debut). I think you'll be very happy.

> Oh, no. As some Smiths or Morrissey songs, Robert Johnson's ones
> sometimes are soulful and funny at the same time!

"Hot tamales, and they're reeed hot, yeah, she got 'em for sale..." Hee, hee. It's always sounded to me like a cartoon theme song or something. I love it!

> This is the strange way I use to hear songs... I pratically
> never understand or pay attention in English lyrics, so I can
> put my imagination to work.

You'll love the Sundays. Have you heard of the Cocteau Twins? Liz Frazier sings in jibberish; not meant to be understood. She's never printed her lyrics because you're to figure them out for yourself. There's no problem with understanding or misunderstanding her words because not even English people can understand. In fact, I've always wondered how non-English speaking people would interpret her "lyrics." I've always labeled the Twins' music as instrumental, because her voice--due to not being able to understand what she's saying--simply acts as just another instrument. They're a great band. If you like the Cure, Robert Smith used to say that they were his favourite band.

> But hear his voice anyway. I think is too much masculine, as a
> John Wayne from blues (see that John Wayne was masculine without
> being aggressively machist, but rather ironic). Am I crazy?

I don't think there's such a thing as an incorrect interpretation. Did you know that John Wayne was 6'4"? Tall.


 
G

greasetea

Guest
You forgot Static and Silence, the Sunday's last release

Even though it was their last full album, it still is pretty darn good. I love the cocteau twins, particularly Heaven or Las Vegas--that should be the first album you pick up Fab. or try Dot Allison, late of One Dove is another good choice fabricio.
You're lucky because Shellyan Orphan is not an import over there, she is like a female morrissey..and a great singer to boot.
 
C

Cili Barnes

Guest
No I didn't, it's simply not as good.

> Even though it was their last full album, it still is pretty
> darn good. I love the cocteau twins, particularly Heaven or Las
> Vegas--that should be the first album you pick up Fab. or try
> Dot Allison, late of One Dove is another good choice fabricio.
> You're lucky because Shellyan Orphan is not an import over
> there, she is like a female morrissey..and a great singer to
> boot.

"Static and Silence" just isn't as good an album as their first two. If Fabricio is new to them, I'd like him to buy their first two before their S&S. I think it's a good album too, but that's because they're one of those bands who really can't do anything wrong if you like their music. They're very reliable, which isn't always such a good thing, but given Harriet and David's personalities, one understands.

"Heaven or Las Vegas" is very good, and is definitely a good album to start with. Dot Allison's new album has some good tracks, and she has a nice voice, but it's a very hit and miss LP. I like two tracks off of it, and I like that Mani (of the Stone Roses, now Primal Scream) features on it, but I think it's a little disappointing. Shellyan Orphan is a band which is difficult for any Sundays fan to ignore, but I'd still put the Sundays above them. Shellyan Orphan sounds a little pretentious at times don't they?

But I'm being very picky and anal retentive. Those are good bands & LP's, and you've definitely got good taste Greasetea! :) By the way, I've been wondering when you're fury would tear through the soft milk and honey facade. It's strangely comforting to have you back.


 
G

greasetea the fury fairy (eh, that sounds weird)

Guest
Ah i see, missed the objective

Yippee, i love those pictures. However i have to be biased and say Dancing Jellybean tops them..she is my kid sister after all. In anycase, true, i totally forgot the objective in introducing Fab5freddie to the Sundays. Yep, those two prevousones do surpass Static (to be honest when i heard that summertime song, i felt like sighing overdramatically in disapproval). I stumbled on to Orphan while buying Q magazine with their numerous CD inserts and after "shattered", I was hooked. Pretentious? I think obnoxiously arrogant is more fitting, some of her lyrics are so "look at me, I'm so smart" they sometimes alienate the listener.

As for my ruthless character, call it a cameo...I quite enjoyed being kind and sweet. It was debonair and oh so Ritzy (That group Paco sucks..even with the neon bulbs).

Have fun Fabricio with listening to the Sundays and thanks again Cili for the photos. ^_^
 
T

Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)

Guest
Re: FU.CK KURT COBAIN!!!!!!!

> Most magazines in December 1999 showed Kurt Cobain as the most
> important musician in the 90's, so there's no more discussion
> about it.

> And the argument you used (rap and Backstreet) only reinforces
> the fact that Kurt Cobain was the most important rock singer and
> musician in the nineties.

Okay, I see what you mean. But, there's no reason for me to like or respect him.

> And even this way they are the best band ever (after Smiths and
> Beatles, of course). You see? Complicated chords in one thing.
> Quality in rock is another.

I never said the Ramones weren't cool. The progressions are common sense, but they are still the producers of some of rock's coolest songs.

> Well, my point with you was the fact you criticized Kurt Cobain
> for being a simplistic guitarist, didn't you? I am saying that
> this has no relationship as a quality of the music (as you see
> in Rush). So where are we now?

This is my whole point: Kurt Cobain became famous from the sales and popularity of Nevermind. But, he earned his place in history only for killing himself. The tragic ending in the height of his career is what keeps everyone's attention. I see no real prowess in his playing, and everyone overmagnifies what we call "his talent". Say, he didn't die, then I believe rock and roll would've been headed towards the post modern rock sound--which became dismissed as a result of Cobain. Cobain had no ambition to be Freddie Mercury, as he stated in his final words, and it angers me to see that people want to overglorfy him as such. Leave him alone, and let him rest. He wasn't that very good, and he didn't want the job anyways. Let's give the job to someone who wants it, and deserves it.
 
T

Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)

Guest
Re: that's not fair

> Oh come on! Richey could barely play at all! He was a great
> lyricist, though. It is a crime that no one in the States has
> ever listened to the Holy Bible.

But his lyrics were more coherent and intelligent than "I'm so happy/coz today I found my friends/there in my head". Richey wrote songs with hooks, quotes, and epiphanies that any working class person lives through. Richey was 4-Real.

> James Bradfield deserves some credit as a great guitarist. The
> wonderful noise of the Manics is mostly him.

He still holds much of it together. I do recall that Generation Terrorists had not one note recorded by Richey. James pulled off all those blinding solos, and still hasn't lost his dexterity to this date. I have immense amount of respect for the Manics, as they are my favorite UK band of the 90s.

Maybe "Masses Against the Classes" will be their US breakthrough. It's their loudest since The Holy Bible, and Americans like loud bands. A typical Manics song, too, which will hopefully convince the US to buy their back catalog.
 
T

Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)

Guest
Re: irony

> yeah, you look melancholy and mellow enough for shoegazing
> music.

...and I'm too happy for Goth music, and too suburban for Rap music, and too Uptown for Country music, and too sexy for indie music.....

you added all that crap to my post. I said none of that stuff.

Don't get smart.
 
C

Cili

Guest
Re: Ah i see, missed the objective

> However i have to be biased and say Dancing Jellybean tops them..

Don't I come first in any of your departments? ;-(
[Isn't that a funny expression? For some reason it always makes me laugh.]

> (to be honest when i heard that summertime song,
> i felt like sighing overdramatically in disapproval).

It was disappointing wasn't it? But the video was cute! Fruit!

> Have fun Fabricio with listening to the Sundays and thanks again
> Cili for the photos. ^_^

So gracious for a mean guy.


 
S

Seems a Little Strange

Guest
Re: that's not fair

> But his lyrics were more coherent and intelligent than "I'm
> so happy/coz today I found my friends/there in my head".
> Richey wrote songs with hooks, quotes, and epiphanies that any
> working class person lives through. Richey was 4-Real.

Oh, I'm not arguing that Richey wrote better lyrics.

> Maybe "Masses Against the Classes" will be their US
> breakthrough. It's their loudest since The Holy Bible, and
> Americans like loud bands. A typical Manics song, too, which
> will hopefully convince the US to buy their back catalog.

Is "Masses..." going to be released in the US? I haven't got it yet, but it must be good. Afterall, I read some grudgingly good reviews in the British press and they never seem to have anything good to say about the Manics anymore.
 
T

the Greasetea twins

Guest
You'll always be first on my "cool" list

Cili, that Charles guy is weird...and i thought i was a menace. Ummm, i'm not that mean am i? At least I don't think I am...urmmmh..um..well i don't curse as much. Deviled Eggs suck.
 
3

3 storms

Guest
Cili and Greasetea, you both are how we say, "stupid"

Yes, I believe your posts are meaningless and poor Fabricio, you and greasetea couldn't suggest music your way out of a paper bag. You think Cocteau Twins are great? As if. Fabricio will regret it.

Remind me to never ask either one of you for advice on cd shopping.
 
F

Fabricio

Guest
Re: He's at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> Well, there's nothing wrong with being a pleasant person
> Fabricio. By the way, is your name pronounced
> "Fab-REE-kee-yo?"

Oh thanks for the "pleasant"... But sometimes people don't like me just because I am trying to be gentle. When I don't try to be gentle there's no problem in people disliking me!

The correct pronouncing is "Fab-ree-see-yo"

> You've never heard of the Sundays? Oh, well then you're in for a
> pleasant surprise! Talk about out of this world... Harriet
> Wheeler has a phenomenal, angelic voice. Buy both of the albums
> I suggested, "Reading, Writing and Arithmetic" and
> "Blind." They've written contemporary classics like
> "Here's Where the Story Ends," on RWA (their debut). I
> think you'll be very happy.

It really seems good. Thank you Cili. I'll try to hear something and I'll say what I found.

> "Hot tamales, and they're reeed hot, yeah, she got 'em for
> sale..." Hee, hee. It's always sounded to me like a cartoon
> theme song or something. I love it!

Me too!.

> You'll love the Sundays. Have you heard of the Cocteau Twins?
> Liz Frazier sings in jibberish; not meant to be understood.
> She's never printed her lyrics because you're to figure them out
> for yourself. There's no problem with understanding or
> misunderstanding her words because not even English people can
> understand. In fact, I've always wondered how non-English
> speaking people would interpret her "lyrics." I've
> always labeled the Twins' music as instrumental, because her
> voice--due to not being able to understand what she's
> saying--simply acts as just another instrument. They're a great
> band. If you like the Cure, Robert Smith used to say that they
> were his favourite band.

I had a cassette from them some 12 years ago. I remember I liked it very much, but I have never heard it again since. I remember it was like you said!

About the Cure, I heard a lot it when I was teenager, it was one of my favourite bands. Sometimes I hear them at MTV and I think to myself that they have really good songs.

> I don't think there's such a thing as an incorrect
> interpretation.

I don't know... perhaps you are right. But sometimes I hear such stupid things said...

>Did you know that John Wayne was 6'4"?
> Tall.

This means almost 2 meters. Really tall. He is one of my favourite actors.
 
F

Fabricio

Guest
Re: Cili and Greasetea, you both are how we say, "stupid"

"Poor Fabricio"?

Are you who I am thinking about?

> Yes, I believe your posts are meaningless and poor Fabricio, you
> and greasetea couldn't suggest music your way out of a paper
> bag. You think Cocteau Twins are great? As if. Fabricio will
> regret it.

> Remind me to never ask either one of you for advice on cd
> shopping.
 
C

Cili Barnes

Guest
Re: He's at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> Oh thanks for the "pleasant"... But sometimes people
> don't like me just because I am trying to be gentle.

Oh, there are always people who'll hate you for one reason or another.

> When I
> don't try to be gentle there's no problem in people disliking
> me!

Maybe it's because they're afraid of being beaten when you're not behaving gently! :)

> The correct pronouncing is "Fab-ree-see-yo"

God... I should have known that. Now I feel stupid.

> It really seems good. Thank you Cili. I'll try to hear something
> and I'll say what I found.

Please do. Believe me, you'll like the Sundays.

> I had a cassette from them some 12 years ago. I remember I liked
> it very much, but I have never heard it again since. I remember
> it was like you said!

I listen to the Cocteau Twins every once in a while, and everytime I do I'm reminded of how original they were. They were a good band.

> About the Cure, I heard a lot it when I was teenager, it was one
> of my favourite bands. Sometimes I hear them at MTV and I think
> to myself that they have really good songs.

Do you have "Distintegration." That's the album I like the most. It also has the prettiest album cover.

> I don't know... perhaps you are right. But sometimes I hear such
> stupid things said...

[Laughs] Well, I think we all feel that way at times, but I think as long as the person can justify their opinions, it can't be considered incorrect.

> This means almost 2 meters. Really tall. He is one of my
> favourite actors.

I'm making incredible progress in my Americanization. It's all feet and inches for me now. Tall people frighten me.


 
C

Cili

Guest
I think you've been studying too hard.

> Cili, that Charles guy is weird...and i thought i was a menace.

If it's the same person, I think I met him in San Francisco while I was there for Morrissey's show.

> Ummm, i'm not that mean am i? At least I don't think I
> am...urmmmh..um..well i don't curse as much. Deviled Eggs suck.

Hmm. You've definitely been studying too hard. Things are snapping. :)




 
Top Bottom