Johnny Marr made guitar magazine's all time list

[Cili Barnes]

Re: He's at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> hhehehe.. I am easier now...

Oh, you're so easy to please.

> You have a really good taste! Morrissey, Robert Johnson and
> Beatles! Now it lacks only Madredeus and Black Sabbath...

I own "We Sold Our Soul for Rock and Roll," so I guess only Madredeus is left. Once I heard about Tommi Iommi's (sp?) amputated fingers, I just HAD to hear what he sounded like. Life is so strange. I don't know if you know this already, but it's really BECAUSE of his lost fingers that Black Sabbath sound the way they do. Iommi (sp?) had to tune his guitar down and change the way he pulled his strings in order to compensate for his lack of... fingers, and that dark and terrible Sabbath sound was born. Sorry if you knew already--I know it's a pretty famous story, but it's really interesting if you didn't know.

> Well, I am catholic, and I don't know all his lyrics (I have to
> read them...). But I think Robert Johnson is more like Morrissey
> in his "There's a place in hell from me and my
> friends" for example. It seems much more that he doesn't
> deserve heaven because he thinks he is evil - as Morrissey does
> in another song ("Satan rejected my soul"). And I
> don't think this is a bad characteristic.

I've never really given a good listen to any of his lyrics. The only ones I know are, "hot tamales and they're reeed hot, yes she got 'em for sale!" [Laughs] I just love that! It always makes me laugh.

> And the lyrics I know... they are brilliant!!! See Love in vain,
> or Kindhearted Woman blues (where he says the bad woman
> "studies evil all the time"...).

Hmm, sounds interesting. I will do.

> I have this box too. I bought by internet, and it was expensive
> to me because our money (real) lost 1/2 of its value, but it was
> a great business.

It's a great way to bring together all of his tracks.

> I don't agree... he seems a happy guy....

I guess I'm just impressionable.

> I read his article in the box and I was very amazed. I always
> quote this Clapton's attitude when I want to explain my
> admiration for Robert Johnson.

I didn't even know it was in there. I've only listened to the cd's. I know from watching a video where Clapton was interviewed, and I heard him say it. I thought it was cute.

> Malted Milk unplugged? It is one of the Johnson's song I prefer,
> and I really love unplugged blues (Johnson, John Lee Hooker,
> Lightnin' Hopkins). I have to buy this cd!!!

You should. Clapton is such an amazingly talented musician, you won't be sorry. John Lee Hooker, now there's a blues-man. His playing reminds me of a modern Robert Johnson. I prefer that rolling style over all the twiddly, flashy speed-playing.

> And Clapton released a double cd called "blues" with
> only his blues old recordings. Do you know it? Is this is good?
> (I am almost racist against white blues singers... hehehehe)

I have it, but I havent' listened to it. I figure that, when I've got all the originals, why should I listen to Clapton's covers. I'm not a guitar player, so I don't care too much for his skills. I much prefer his unplugged album.

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: My meager guitar talk (no Morrissey content); plus a suggestion for MMM

> Here's a story you'll be able to appreciate Triple M. Johnny
> Squire used some of the advance he received from Geffen Records
> to buy one of those rare and coveted original 1959 Les Paul's,
> which he adored (pardon the pun). You can see John playing it in
> just about every photo of him as a Stone Rose circa the time of
> "Second Coming." Unfortunately, when the Roses
> disbanded, Geffen took back ALL of the Roses
> equipment--including John's beloved guitar. Can you imagine?
> Those sell for about $10,000 American, don't they?

Just about $10K. It's sadly overpriced; I hate Les Pauls. Too heavy, and the tones are bunk. I'd rather save $7K and buy a Gretsch.

> If you haven't already, you should check out the brilliant
> "Loveless" by My Bloody Valentine, which I consider to
> be one of the absolute best albums of the 90's.

I own that record. Shieldy has done everthing that Americans credit Sonic Youth for. His sounds are killer, and his songwriting is excellent.

Man, I wish shoegazers were still in vogue. God damn you, Oasis!!!!!

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: FU.CK KURT COBAIN!!!!!!!

> He was very famous when alive.

No one called him the new Lennon back then. He was just another hitmaker until he died.

> Do you think Ramones are crap because their music are easy to
> play?

I like the Ramones, but I don't seem Johnny Ramone on the cover of Guitar World, either. You see, if Johnny Ramone was in a guitar magazine, he'd just be talking about his equipment, et. al., and there is no need for transcribing their songs. Ramones songs are common sense, just as Nirvana songs are. And I don't respect Nirvana as 'guitar innovators' when they were just a tragic story. What did Kurt Cobain do to further guitar playing? Nothing. He just brought back plywood guitars, and made scales obsolete.

 

[Cili Barnes]

Re: My meager guitar talk (no Morrissey content); plus a suggestion for MMM

> Just about $10K. It's sadly overpriced; I hate Les Pauls. Too
> heavy, and the tones are bunk. I'd rather save $7K and buy a
> Gretsch.

One thing which I found interesting though, the older Les Pauls are lighter than the new ones. I bought a gold 1957 (I think that was the year) Les Paul for my favourite person, and he realized immediately that it was far lighter than his brand new one--I picked them up too, and found that there was indeed a VERY large difference! I can't really hear the difference, but apparently, because of the different wood and finish, the tone is different as well. I don't know why I can't hear it if the difference is so large, but oh well. His cheapest guitar is my favourite, so what do I know?

Speaking of Gretsch (which is the most akwardly spelled word ever, next to "obfuscate"), John Squire used a Gretsch country gentleman before switching over to Les Pauls. I'm so proud of myself. I feel like I know so much about guitars!

> I own that record. Shieldy has done everthing that Americans
> credit Sonic Youth for. His sounds are killer, and his
> songwriting is excellent.

My Bloody Valentine is supposedly finishing up an album these days, but who knows. I've also heard that he's watching the telly all day. Did you know that My Bloody Valentine were named after an American b-movie?

> Man, I wish shoegazers were still in vogue. God damn you,
> Oasis!!!!!

I like Oasis. :-(

 

[suzanne]

Re: My meager guitar talk (no Morrissey content); plus a suggestion for MMM

> Man, I wish shoegazers were still in vogue. God damn you,
> Oasis!!!!!

Mani, Oasis has been out of vogue for 3 years now.

 

[Christopher]

Re: FU.CK KURT COBAIN!!!!!!!

> No one called him the new Lennon back then. He was just another
> hitmaker until he died.

Another hitmaker? Oh please see all magazines - he was the most influential pop singer in the 90's.

> I like the Ramones, but I don't seem Johnny Ramone on the cover
> of Guitar World, either. You see, if Johnny Ramone was in a
> guitar magazine, he'd just be talking about his equipment, et.
> al., and there is no need for transcribing their songs. Ramones
> songs are common sense, just as Nirvana songs are. And I don't
> respect Nirvana as 'guitar innovators' when they were just a
> tragic story. What did Kurt Cobain do to further guitar playing?
> Nothing. He just brought back plywood guitars, and made scales
> obsolete.

Sex Pistols made a revolution in the rock because they wanted to play 3 notes and not the all the flood of notes heard in the horrible
progressive rock. Have you never heard about Do it for yourself? In what place of the world you've stayed since 1977?

And Ramones are "common sense"? This was the most ridiculous phrase I've always heard here.

There's more to life than in a guitar player magazine. Fortunately much more.

 

[Fabricio]

Re: He's at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> Oh, you're so easy to please.

Oh serious?

And do you think it's a good characteristic or a bad one?

> I own "We Sold Our Soul for Rock and Roll," so I guess
> only Madredeus is left.

They are a portuguese accoustic group and they have a marvelous singer called Teresa Salgueiro. Her voice doesn't seem to belong to this world. It's unbelievable how deep and beautiful her voice is.

>Once I heard about Tommi Iommi's
> (sp?) amputated fingers, I just HAD to hear what he sounded
> like. Life is so strange. I don't know if you know this already,
> but it's really BECAUSE of his lost fingers that Black Sabbath
> sound the way they do. Iommi (sp?) had to tune his guitar down
> and change the way he pulled his strings in order to compensate
> for his lack of... fingers, and that dark and terrible Sabbath
> sound was born. Sorry if you knew already--I know it's a pretty
> famous story, but it's really interesting if you didn't know.

This is great! Thank you Cili, I didn't know it. I don't know pratically anything about the band (I like them just because I hear their albums a lot). And I think I'll never hear their songs again the same way!

> I've never really given a good listen to any of his lyrics. The
> only ones I know are, "hot tamales and they're reeed hot,
> yes she got 'em for sale!" [Laughs] I just love that! It
> always makes me laugh.

> Hmm, sounds interesting. I will do.

Another funny example: in From four till late a woman "tear a good man' reputation down" and when he returned she'll "have a great long
story to tell"

> It's a great way to bring together all of his tracks.

> I guess I'm just impressionable.

Who knows?

> I didn't even know it was in there. I've only listened to the
> cd's. I know from watching a video where Clapton was
> interviewed, and I heard him say it. I thought it was cute.

Oh, the whole article is really great. Clapton finishes saying that he never heard "anything more deeply soulful than Robert Johnson".

> You should. Clapton is such an amazingly talented musician, you
> won't be sorry. John Lee Hooker, now there's a blues-man. His
> playing reminds me of a modern Robert Johnson. I prefer that
> rolling style over all the twiddly, flashy speed-playing.

Me too. John Lee Hooker style always makes me in a kind of suspension and expectative state. And I think he is the most "masculine" singer ever, without being necessarily machist.

> I have it, but I havent' listened to it. I figure that, when
> I've got all the originals, why should I listen to Clapton's
> covers.

I agree completely.

>I'm not a guitar player, so I don't care too much for
> his skills. I much prefer his unplugged album.

Oh, this is a really good suggestion. I'll try to find this album.

 

[gentle and kind]

that's not fair

He hated himself and he wanted to die, as we all know. He had a sad life. It's not his fault that people put him on lists. Shame.

 

[Christopher]

Triple M thinks Curt Kobain killed himself in a marketing strategy (N/M).

> He hated himself and he wanted to die, as we all know. He had a
> sad life. It's not his fault that people put him on lists.
> Shame.

 

[greasetea]

he killed himself to get a headstart with the Hale Bopp comet and join Doe and those other freaks

make sure you pack some Nike's!

(whew...)

ZAP!!! aaghhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Cili Barnes]

Re: He's at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> And do you think it's a good characteristic or a bad one?

Oh, I was only kidding. But just for sake of conversation, I don't think it's a characteristic worth evaluating since it doesn't harm anybody.

> They are a portuguese accoustic group and they have a marvelous
> singer called Teresa Salgueiro. Her voice doesn't seem to belong
> to this world. It's unbelievable how deep and beautiful her
> voice is.

I'll look into the band. I'm always looking for decent new music. If you enjoy beautiful and unique female voices, try the Sundays. Harriet Wheeler has a high, very pretty voice; it's wholly female and very atmostpheric. My advice is to skip their newest effort, "Static and Silence," but both "Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic" (their debut) and "Blind" (their sophomore album) are very good. In fact, many Smiths fans are fans of the Sundays as well--their styles are very similar in that it's good vocals, and melodic jangly guitars forming the backbone of the tunes. Early in their career, there were endless comparisons with the SMiths in the press, and David Gavurin (the guitarist) was often accused of being an ersatz Johnny Marr--although in my opinion, he's not good enough to be legitimately compared to Johnny. On a side note, I once asked Harriet how she felt about being compared to the Smiths, and she was very nonchalant about it. One would think the band were heavily influenced by the Smiths because of how the sound, but that's only marginally true. Anyway, give them a listen if you haven't already. I think you'll be *pleased*. ;-)

> This is great! Thank you Cili, I didn't know it. I don't know
> pratically anything about the band (I like them just because I
> hear their albums a lot). And I think I'll never hear their
> songs again the same way!

Well, here's the whole story as I know it. Black Sabbath were just signed and Tommi Iommi was ready to leave his factory job, when on his final day his hand was caught in machinery. He lost, I believe, the tips of his middle and ring fingers on his left hand--and he's a right handed guitar player. He thought, understandably, that his dreams were effectively finished, but ingenuity saved him. He made some changes in his guitars and playing style. He tuned down to loosen the tension of his strings, then placed leather caps on his fingers/stubs. The result of these changes is what you hear and recognize today as some of the darkest rock and roll around.

> Another funny example: in From four till late a woman "tear
> a good man' reputation down" and when he returned she'll
> "have a great long
> story to tell"

Hey, that's misogynistic! But it makes sense. You know how Robert Johnson died right? He finally fooled around with one too many women, and he was poisoned.

> Oh, the whole article is really great. Clapton finishes saying
> that he never heard "anything more deeply soulful than
> Robert Johnson".

Now you've made me feel a fool for saying that I laugh from one of his songs! Clapton would hate me.

> Me too. John Lee Hooker style always makes me in a kind of
> suspension and expectative state. And I think he is the most
> "masculine" singer ever, without being necessarily
> machist.

Hmm, I've never heard of anyone referring to John Lee Hooker as masculine before.

> Oh, this is a really good suggestion. I'll try to find this
> album.

It's a nice listen; not better than what you'd expect but it's still good.

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: FU.CK KURT COBAIN!!!!!!!

> Another hitmaker? Oh please see all magazines - he was the most
> influential pop singer in the 90's.

How much of an influence was he between 1992 and 1994? All the copycats came AFTER he offed himself. And, if you look at the ENTIRE 1990s decade, and examine the charts, it was a rap decade. On the note that 1999 ended, you'll see that all the teenyboppers and homeboys came out on top. Sadly, Dr. Dre and New Kids on the Block were the real 90s influence, not any rock artist. I hate to admit that, but that is what happens when rock and roll looks up to hack musicians--that eventually kill themselves.

> Sex Pistols made a revolution in the rock because they wanted to
> play 3 notes and not the all the flood of notes heard in the
> horrible
> progressive rock. Have you never heard about Do it for yourself?
> In what place of the world you've stayed since 1977?

I never brought up the Pistols anywhere in this thread. For conversation sake, I do like them. You have to love them because they are jerks. The only Pistol I didn't like was Sid. (I mean he was cool, but he couldn't play!) Plus, the didn't hold back about what they were gonna say. If they wanted to say "f.uck off", they'd do it on BBC television, where some other guy would be verbose and passive about it. And they had alot of "f.uck you" songs. As far as Steve Jones' playing is concerned, he's not a god, but he did make alot of essential riffs.

Prog rock like Rush is horrible, but the stuff like old King Crimson is kinda neat to listen to. Would I emulate they guitar lines? No. 6 hours of masturbating would be the same thing as playing a Rush album.

> And Ramones are "common sense"? This was the most
> ridiculous phrase I've always heard here.

Common sense as in chord progressions. You know I-IV-V, right? That's every Ramones song. Grab your axe and play it. You'll see.

> There's more to life than in a guitar player magazine.
> Fortunately much more.

Touche. You see, people forget that Mudhoney was a bigger Seattle band, but because they didn't produce any hits, it all went to Nirvana. Hell, even Queensryche had a bigger following pre 1992. Guitar magazines overglorify certain players as 'innovators' when they are sloppy, yet crafty enough to fit it in the right measure. That is the whole point I'm trying to make in this thread. And, right now, someone out there is better than Jimi Hendrix--he doesn't have a record contract. He is some anonymous kid practicing in his bedroom.

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: he killed himself to get a headstart with the Hale Bopp comet and join Doe and those other freak

> make sure you pack some Nike's!

> (whew...)

> ZAP!!! aaghhhhhhhhhhh

Be sure to get the new series--Marshall Applewhite Air Suicides.

Once you go up, you'll never come down!!

it IS the shoes!!!!!

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: My meager guitar talk (no Morrissey content); plus a suggestion for MMM

> Mani, Oasis has been out of vogue for 3 years now.

You don't get it. Oasis killed shoegazers. I mean, dammit, friggin ANDY BELL FROM RIDE is their f'n bass player! A big indication as to what Oasis did to MY music.

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: My meager guitar talk (no Morrissey content); plus a suggestion for MMM

> Speaking of Gretsch (which is the most akwardly spelled word
> ever, next to "obfuscate"), John Squire used a Gretsch
> country gentleman before switching over to Les Pauls. I'm so
> proud of myself. I feel like I know so much about guitars!

I remember when he used the Gretsch exclusively. That's when he sounded great. I think he specific woods have to do with the weight, and heavier, denser woods resonate better. That's the case with Les Pauls, yet Gretsches are lighter and brighter-sounding because of the soundholes. I would only use a Les Paul if I wanted to expose nuance of the touch. John Squire doesn't have that much of a feel, as he does dexterity. That was obvious to me when I saw the [LAME!] Seahorses. He should've stuck to the Gretsch.

> My Bloody Valentine is supposedly finishing up an album these
> days, but who knows. I've also heard that he's watching the
> telly all day. Did you know that My Bloody Valentine were named
> after an American b-movie?

He's just waiting for The Autumns to make his genre cool again. I've been trying to find the movie, but no luck.

> I like Oasis. :-(

They forced Andy Bell to play bass! How dare they!!!

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: that's not fair

> He hated himself and he wanted to die, as we all know. He had a
> sad life. It's not his fault that people put him on lists.
> Shame.

Richey James Edwards played much better, wrote better songs, and went out somewhat similar. Where is his prestige?

How come guitar magazines and Americans don't care?

 

[Triple M (the artist formerly known as Mani)]

Re: he killed himself to get a headstart with the Hale Bopp comet and join Doe and those other freak

P.S. funny you brought up those Heaven's Gate dudes. I live in San Diego.

 

[Bertrand]

Re: that's not fair

> Richey James Edwards played much better, wrote better songs, and
> went out somewhat similar. Where is his prestige?

> How come guitar magazines and Americans don't care?

Oh come on! Richey could barely play at all! He was a great lyricist, though. It is a crime that no one in the States has ever listened to the Holy Bible.

James Bradfield deserves some credit as a great guitarist. The wonderful noise of the Manics is mostly him.

 

[Charles]

I'm at the crossroads. (no morrissey content)

> Oh, I was only kidding. But just for sake of conversation, I
> don't think it's a characteristic worth evaluating since it
> doesn't harm anybody.

> I'll look into the band. I'm always looking for decent new
> music. If you enjoy beautiful and unique female voices, try the
> Sundays. Harriet Wheeler has a high, very pretty voice; it's
> wholly female and very atmostpheric. My advice is to skip their
> newest effort, "Static and Silence," but both
> "Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic" (their debut) and
> "Blind" (their sophomore album) are very good. In
> fact, many Smiths fans are fans of the Sundays as well--their
> styles are very similar in that it's good vocals, and melodic
> jangly guitars forming the backbone of the tunes. Early in their
> career, there were endless comparisons with the SMiths in the
> press, and David Gavurin (the guitarist) was often accused of
> being an ersatz Johnny Marr--although in my opinion, he's not
> good enough to be legitimately compared to Johnny. On a side
> note, I once asked Harriet how she felt about being compared to
> the Smiths, and she was very nonchalant about it. One would
> think the band were heavily influenced by the Smiths because of
> how the sound, but that's only marginally true. Anyway, give
> them a listen if you haven't already. I think you'll be
> *pleased*. ;-)

> Well, here's the whole story as I know it. Black Sabbath
> were just signed and Tommi Iommi was ready to leave his factory
> job, when on his final day his hand was caught in machinery. He
> lost, I believe, the tips of his middle and ring fingers on his
> left hand--and he's a right handed guitar player. He thought,
> understandably, that his dreams were effectively finished, but
> ingenuity saved him. He made some changes in his guitars and
> playing style. He tuned down to loosen the tension of his
> strings, then placed leather caps on his fingers/stubs. The
> result of these changes is what you hear and recognize today as
> some of the darkest rock and roll around.

> Hey, that's misogynistic! But it makes sense. You know how
> Robert Johnson died right? He finally fooled around with one too
> many women, and he was poisoned.

> Now you've made me feel a fool for saying that I laugh from one
> of his songs! Clapton would hate me.

> Hmm, I've never heard of anyone referring to John Lee Hooker as
> masculine before.

> It's a nice listen; not better than what you'd expect but it's
> still good.

Okay. Fine. Whatever. But when will you be mine?

 

[suzanne]

irony

> You don't get it because you don't read Cigar Afficianado. Oasis and Arab Strap conspired with Oliver Stone and killed shoegazers and have them buried in the backyard beside the cat. I mean, dammit and dadburn young 'unz with their CD players,
> friggin ANDY BELL FROM RIDE is their f'n bass player and Arsenio Hall is their roadie! A big
> indication as to what Oasis did to MY music which is still in my DAT and not being listened to by anyone in my family and certainly not my mother.

yeah, you look melancholy and mellow enough for shoegazing music.