Johnny Marr interview: "And the problem with The Smiths was that the friendship broke down...."

cool thanks for the link. gotta say i really dont agree with what he says about authentic and sentimental. thats only true if youre as old as he is so i dont think many 16 yo fans are that sentimental. also didnt agree with this at all..

.."started to see problems in the music and with the future"

maybe with the future means the friendship but i didnt see any problems with strangeways as i love it to death. i do agree about the bohemianism though and the pot being good for the ears and music which hes said before (mentions the spliff in this one) and the admiration for the unconventional growing up his kids took part in (really weird to think there in there early twenties). i had the same in many ways and am grateful for it. i at least get the boys get straight shirt song title now. hes a very cool guy and his comments about modern fiction were great (am now working my way through my palahniuk novels then on to welsh and amis blah blah). monder how much he made in the smiths even to this day. the boxset probably sold a bunch but i wonder when morrissey made all his money during his solo career. vauxhall im guessing
 
I wonder what happened.

I surmise (from various books and interviews) that the relationship broke down due to Morrissey ultimately treating Johnny in the exact same way he had treat many others before along the way. Cancelled television appearances (Wogan) and video shoots without bothering to even inform Johnny as if he weren't an equal partner and the final straw being Moz recruiting Joyce to do his bidding where once it would have been Johnny.

If you read Tony Fletcher's book, Johnny admits feeling isolated from the rest of the band during the last B-Side recording sessions held by Grant Showbiz. Basically, I think it got to the point where Johnny just thought f*** this - I created this band, wrote all the tunes along with producing and managing and now the drummer is telling me what I'm meant to be playing. You can kind of see his point to be fair.
 
i dont know about wrote all the tunes but that has a thread all its own so why resurrect it here and now. i think marr had a big ego back then to be honest and being around a person like morrissey can for sure hurt and damage that significantly. i think he was sometimes of the opinion that the rest of the public had when the smiths split of oh ha ha whats morrissey gonna do now and then got a little down when he saw him go on to huge success and validation. i mean to his credit morrissey didnt go around slagging off johnny in the press even though he was probably upset about the disolution as well. alf wank comments come to mind. thats fine though, many people go through learning experiences and mature from them.
 
The story of the Smiths split is old hat by now, surely. I think Marr only brings it up to indulge journalists, particularly after Autobiography when we've finally heard both sides of the story.

General consensus: Morrissey drove Johnny away with his musical jealousy and diva fits, systematically hiring and firing managers, producers, etc ("monogamous me, polygamous he") and expecting Marr to run the band whilst "the star" hid away in Kensington like a spoiled child.

Morrissey's version: Johnny wanted more of the fame and limelight and had surrounded himself with "undesirables" intent on tearing The Smiths apart and initiating him into the evil arts of electronica. Morrissey's ideas on this are paranoid to the point of delusion, as Autobiography makes clear ("Morrissey is a bad smell in the attic", "Morrissey is evil and should be stuffed") and of course Johnny defected to the beery bosom of Madchester eventually and the rest is history. Morrissey f***ed up the whole thing and he knows it.
 
I think Marr had enough of Morrissey's hissy fits. The story of him refusing to open the door and Johnny saying he was done comes to mind. Aren't they on speaking terms now, though?
 
I think Marr had enough of Morrissey's hissy fits. The story of him refusing to open the door and Johnny saying he was done comes to mind. Aren't they on speaking terms now, though?

Last I recall from a Johnny video interview (from a couple of years ago I believe) he intimated that Morrissey wasn't replying to his emails anymore - I think that's why Johnny stresses that it's "impossible to reunite that band" when asked about a reunion as even his and Moz's relationship is more off than on these days, never mind the Joyce element.
 
Looking back now with voracious hindsight, frankly, it's a miracle The Smiths even made it as far as they did. 5 years seems about right.

Morrissey is unmanageable, then as now, and is the very definition of a 'solo artist' & unclubbable.

Johnny appears to like the idea of A Band, but just not all the time, with the same people.

It remains some kind of queer miracle that Johnny came along when he did and rescued Morrissey from his fate. I think Morrissey has always known that, and has always, to a lesser or greater degree, acknowledged that debt ~ most touchingly in that Ivor Novello 'John Maher of Wythenshawe' speech.

I don't believe that Moz thinks, at any level, that he f***ed it up at The End. I still think that he blames Johnny, at every level, for ruining 'the dream'.

But if he was being truly honest, imagine this scenario ~ imagine that Moz had said to Marr in August '87, 'sure, take 9 months off, nix the Strangeways tour, come back next summer, and we'll knock out another pop classic'. And Johnny comes back in summer '88 and walks in E'd up off his tits, with a bunch of bangin tunes in his head. Or something.

It was never going to last. The 90s began in '88 (SAW, Dance Music, etc) so The Smiths demise in Autumn '87 seems pretty neat to me.
They were great in their time, but their time was the 1980s, when Pop Music, in it's original incarnation, wheezed its last (SAW leads to Pop Idol to X Factor nation, Dance Music leads to the death of Pop, etc)
 
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Johnny Marr: “Who cares about authentic?” - The Talks

Excerpt:

That makes sense, especially if you tour. Some people can end up hating their best friends after traveling together for just a few weeks.
True. And the problem with The Smiths was that the friendship broke down, so I became very, very disillusioned, and started to see problems in the music and with the future. It becomes really obvious that you’re no longer looking at the future with the same eyes, and the music that you want to make with same eyes. To do what I do, it takes over your life, and I’m really, really happy with that.

Until it stops working…
Yeah, that the friendships broke down was really heartbreaking for me. It was really difficult to recover from for many years, the idealism of the closeness. But it was always in my destiny to be in a lot of different bands, whether they were successful or not. It’s worked out okay, luckily. With my own band for my solo project, I’ve been friends with all the members of the band for 10 or 15 years. I haven’t put together a bunch of strangers in the right jackets.
 
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The story of the Smiths split is old hat by now, surely. I think Marr only brings it up to indulge journalists, particularly after Autobiography when we've finally heard both sides of the story.

General consensus: Morrissey drove Johnny away with his musical jealousy and diva fits, systematically hiring and firing managers, producers, etc ("monogamous me, polygamous he") and expecting Marr to run the band whilst "the star" hid away in Kensington like a spoiled child.

Morrissey's version: Johnny wanted more of the fame and limelight and had surrounded himself with "undesirables" intent on tearing The Smiths apart and initiating him into the evil arts of electronica. Morrissey's ideas on this are paranoid to the point of delusion, as Autobiography makes clear ("Morrissey is a bad smell in the attic", "Morrissey is evil and should be stuffed") and of course Johnny defected to the beery bosom of Madchester eventually and the rest is history. Morrissey f***ed up the whole thing and he knows it.

By "general consensus" you obviously mean the Usual Suspects on here (which doesn't amount to many people). There was Morrissey's perception and there was Marr's perception - and both were "right" because both believed they had legitimate grievances and that the band wasn't developing in the way each of them wanted it to - although by that time, each of their artistic ambitions were no longer shared by the other. But, as the partnership that created The Smiths, each of their ambitions and viewpoints were/are equally valid. To suggest that there is some kind of favoured objective consensus whereby one person's perception was somehow more valid than the other is nonsense, that's just schoolyard side-taking.
 
yeah i think johnny for sure had an ego and i could see him being bothered by not getting the attention he wants out of the band and of course we all know morrissey can be weridly difficult so i can easily believe both side of that story. remember when johnny was going around town telling people he was gonna be a rock star even before theyd done anything or he even met morrissey.
 
By "general consensus" you obviously mean the Usual Suspects on here (which doesn't amount to many people). There was Morrissey's perception and there was Marr's perception - and both were "right" because both believed they had legitimate grievances and that the band wasn't developing in the way each of them wanted it to - although by that time, each of their artistic ambitions were no longer shared by the other. But, as the partnership that created The Smiths, each of their ambitions and viewpoints were/are equally valid. To suggest that there is some kind of favoured objective consensus whereby one person's perception was somehow more valid than the other is nonsense, that's just schoolyard side-taking.
Or she could be referring to accounts from Joe Moss, Grant Showbiz, Stephen Street, and others who worked closely with The Smiths which all suggest that mounting pressure on Marr due to Morrissey's difficult behavior and unwillingness to be managed lead to Marr's decision to abandon the band.

I agree that the demise of The Smiths is not as black and white as some people paint it, and Marr himself has admitted he could have handled matters more gracefully, but a consistent narrative has definitely developed from the accounts of numerous parties involved, and Morrissey's version of events deviates significantly from the others.
 
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Let's not forget that part of this "future" he was liking less and less included having to cover obscure and bland b-side fodder such as "Work Is A Four Letter Word". That session was the killing point (after all the other issues named above), was it not?
 
Or she could be referring to accounts from Joe Moss, Grant Showbiz, Stephen Street, and others who worked closely with The Smiths which all suggest that mounting pressure on Johnny due to Morrissey's difficult behavior and unwillingness to be managed lead to Marr's decision to abandon the band.

I agree that the demise of The Smiths is not as black and white as some people paint it, and Marr himself has admitted he could have handled matters more gracefully, but a consistent narrative has definitely developed from the accounts of numerous parties involved, and Morrissey's version of events deviates significantly from the others.


We must not forget that Marr was all but 24 years old at the time. Remarkable they made it as far they did even if half of the rumors are true. Though at some level, I believe the conflict contributed to their greatness.
 
maybe with the future means the friendship but i didnt see any problems with strangeways as i love it to death. i do agree about the bohemianism though and the pot being good for the ears and music which hes said before (mentions the spliff in this one) and the admiration for the unconventional growing up his kids took part in (really weird to think there in there early twenties). i had the same in many ways and am grateful for it. i at least get the boys get straight shirt song title now. hes a very cool guy and his comments about modern fiction were great (am now working my way through my palahniuk novels then on to welsh and amis blah blah). monder how much he made in the smiths even to this day. the boxset probably sold a bunch but i wonder when morrissey made all his money during his solo career. vauxhall im guessing

I've always suspected Morrissey & Marr are not as proud of Strangeways as they've let on in interviews. It's a good record, but certainly not their best. Perhaps they've felt a need to praise it as the best simply because it was the last? As someone very sad that they split, from this vantage point, I have a hard time imaging how they would have proceeded. As the 80's ended the music scene that embraced The Smiths was rapidly changing. Marr would have wanted to evolve with the times and Morrissey would have fought it. I could see them making one, maybe two more albums ... but beyond that ... I just don't see it. Their creative differences/tension was just too great to allow it.

Agree/disagree?
 
Let's not forget that part of this "future" he was liking less and less included having to cover obscure and bland b-side fodder such as "Work Is A Four Letter Word". That session was the killing point (after all the other issues named above), was it not?

It's a harmless B side. It was hardly a sign of things to come. A little perspective goes a long way.

 
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I've always suspected Morrissey & Marr are not as proud of Strangeways as they've let on in interviews. It's a good record, but certainly not their best. Perhaps they've felt a need to praise it as the best simply because it was the last? As someone very sad that they split, from this vantage point, I have a hard time imaging how they would have proceeded. As the 80's ended the music scene that embraced The Smiths was rapidly changing. Marr would have wanted to evolve with the times and Morrissey would have fought it. I could see them making one, maybe two more albums ... but beyond that ... I just don't see it. Their creative differences/tension was just too great to allow it.

Agree/disagree?

It certainly isn't their best album, and I think they know that.
 
It's a harmless B side. It was hardly a sign of things to come. A little perspective goes a long way.



I don't disagree that they may not have ended up foretelling the future, but I believe Johnny was quoted as stating at the time that he hadn't formed a band to play songs such as that or I Keep Mine Hidden, hence they are factors (large or small is for him to clarify) in his eventual departure.
 
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