Jesus of Nazareth, known as "J-dogg" by some

What is your opinion of Jesus?


  • Total voters
    37
Nomi Klaus!!! ….




:christmastree:
 
audrey, gimme a bible. you must have extras? you'd be doing the lords work.

I would, but I only have Catholic bibles (a Douai-Rheims, a Jerusalem Bible, and a NABRE) and even though Oscar Wilde loved Catholicism and ultimately converted, you for some reason don't want to become a Catholic. I do have a very nice King James, but it belonged to my late father, given to him when he was a little boy by his mother (Church of Ireland) with a loving inscription, so you'll understand the sentimental value and I cannot part with it. Anyway, the bible is in the public domain. It's online everywhere in almost every version, and you get concordance and commentary. But as a public service, perhaps we might do some bible study on this tread.
 
I would, but I only have Catholic bibles (a Douai-Rheims, a Jerusalem Bible, and a NABRE) and even though Oscar Wilde loved Catholicism and ultimately converted, you for some reason don't want to become a Catholic. I do have a very nice King James, but it belonged to my late father, given to him when he was a little boy by his mother (Church of Ireland) with a loving inscription, so you'll understand the sentimental value and I cannot part with it. Anyway, the bible is in the public domain. It's online everywhere in almost every version, and you get concordance and commentary. But as a public service, perhaps we might do some bible study on this tread.
But I want the one with the loving inscription!! 😞

Shit, why does the Bible have to be so complicated? I mean aren't jesus' words the same regardless of the version?? But yeah, I don't want the catholic one!!

I'm open to a little Bible study!!
 
May I ask what's your objection to Catholicism? Aesthetically at least it's much better than most Protestant sects, which have a kind of gooey, experiential, hand-clapping "Jesus loves me" vibe. Catholicism is ritually more detached; the liturgy is refined and theatrical rather than personal. And many of the Victorian decadents like Wilde and Douglas and Beardsley, and some of the "bright young things" like Evelyn Waugh and Edith Sitwell became Catholic. I think artists are more drawn to Catholicism.
 
I guess if you love Jews, though, you'll want a Protestant bible because it excludes certain books that weren't accepted by the (Jewish) council of Jamnia. Protestantism is more Hebraic, really, because it sees the pagan revival of the Renaissance as un-biblical and un-Christian, and in some respects it gets back to the ancient Jewish ban on image-making.
 
Bible study no. 1. Today’s gospel meditation comes from the 3rd century Phoenician philosopher Porphyry. He was a Neoplatonist, vegetarian, and biographer of Plotinus. He wrote a tract called Against the Christians, and was the first to suggest that the Book of Daniel was backdated to make it look prophetic (biblical scholarship has since vindicated him).

In terms of the gospels, he was influential in critiquing the story of the Gerasene demoniac, which he called “a piece of really knavish nonsense.” Like a miserable black-clad 14-yr-old atheist reading the bible, he asked some excellent questions. Why are pigs being herded when Jews considered them unclean? Why did the pigs drown? (Pigs can swim). And most important: why does Jesus have clemency on the wicked demons and cause the deaths of thousands of innocent pigs? Jesus could’ve annihilated the demons. Instead, the swine are killed and the demons are spared, left to prowl the world and ruin more souls. Responding to Porphyry, the Church Fathers had to concede: apparently, God just does not care about animal suffering. Paul’s famous rhetorical question was: doth God care for oxen? Of course not.

Matthew says that two demons from the tombs met with Christ, and then that in fear of him the demons went into the swine, and many were killed. But Mark did not shrink from making up an enormous number of swine, for he puts it thus: “he said unto him, ‘go forth, thou unclean spirit, from the man.’ And he asked him, ‘what is thy name?’ And he answered, ‘Legion.’ And there was there a herd of swine feeding. And the demons besought him that he would suffer them to depart into the swine. And when they had departed into the swine, they rushed down the steep into the sea, about two thousand, and were choked; and they that fed them fled!” What a myth! What humbug! What flat mockery! A herd of two thousand swine ran into the sea, and were choked and perished!​
And when one hears how the demons besought him that they might not be sent into the abyss, and how Christ was prevailed on and did not do so, but sent them into the swine, will not one say: “Alas, what ignorance! Alas, what foolish knavery, that he should take account of murderous spirits, which were working much harm in the world, and that he should grant them what they wished.” What the demons wished was to dance through life, and make the world a perpetual plaything. They wanted to stir up the sea, and fill the world's whole theatre with sorrow. They wanted to trouble the elements by their disturbance, and to crush the whole creation by their hurtfulness. So at all events it was not right that, instead of casting these originators of evil, who had treated mankind so ill, into that region of the abyss which they prayed to be delivered from, he should be softened by their entreaty and suffer them to work another calamity.​
If the incident is true, and not a fiction, Christ’s doing convicts him of much baseness, that he should drive the demons from one man, and send them into helpless swine; also that he should terrify with panic those who kept them, making them fly breathless and excited, and agitate the city with the disturbance which resulted. For was it not just to heal the harm not merely of one man or two or three or thirteen, but of everybody, especially as it was for this purpose that he was testified to have come into this life? But to merely loose one man from bonds which were invisible, and to inflict similar bonds upon others; to free certain men happily from their fears, but to surround others with fears without reason—this should rightfully be called not right action but rascality.​
Once more, if you regard it not as fiction, but bearing some relation to truth, there is really plenty to laugh at. For come now, here is a point we must carefully inquire into: how was it that so large a herd of swine was being kept at that time in the land of Judæa, seeing that they were to the Jews from the beginning the most unclean and hated form of beast? And, again, how were all those swine choked, when it was a lake and not a deep sea? It may be left to babes to make a decision about all this.​

Matthew 8:28-34 | Mark 5:1-20 | Luke 8:26-39

zdgUpz5Pzsqy29mifGmPRF-650-80.jpg
 
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I was just looking at this thread when the phone rang! I thought it was Him! Because 9PM is an ungodly hour to call in winter. It's more like a Jesussy hour.

(Anyhoo, it wasn't Him.)
 
being a catholic is about following a set of rules to live your life by,not been to mass or confession for a long time but i still try and be a good little altar boy.
 
May I ask what's your objection to Catholicism? Aesthetically at least it's much better than most Protestant sects, which have a kind of gooey, experiential, hand-clapping "Jesus loves me" vibe. Catholicism is ritually more detached; the liturgy is refined and theatrical rather than personal. And many of the Victorian decadents like Wilde and Douglas and Beardsley, and some of the "bright young things" like Evelyn Waugh and Edith Sitwell became Catholic. I think artists are more drawn to Catholicism.
I'll answer you when I get home from work okay!!
 
I liked it when Morrissey wore the Roman collar, but unfortunately he seemed to be copying Sinéad O'Connor, who had done it just a few years earlier, and in her case it was way more interesting because she had actually been ordained a priestess in a bonkers Catholic sect in Spain that had its own pope.

0_sineadoc.png
 
Bible study no. 1. Today’s gospel meditation comes from the 3rd century Phoenician philosopher Porphyry. He was a Neoplatonist, vegetarian, and biographer of Plotinus. He wrote a tract called Against the Christians, and was the first to suggest that the Book of Daniel was backdated to make it look prophetic (biblical scholarship has since vindicated him).

In terms of the gospels, he was influential in critiquing the story of the Gerasene demoniac, which he called “a piece of really knavish nonsense.” Like a miserable black-clad 14-yr-old atheist reading the bible, he asked some excellent questions. Why are pigs being herded when Jews considered them unclean? Why did the pigs drown? (Pigs can swim). And most important: why does Jesus have clemency on the wicked demons and cause the deaths of thousands of innocent pigs? Jesus could’ve annihilated the demons. Instead, the swine are killed and the demons are spared, left to prowl the world and ruin more souls. Responding to Porphyry, the Church Fathers had to concede: apparently, God just does not care about animal suffering. Paul’s famous rhetorical question was: doth God care for oxen? Of course not.

Matthew says that two demons from the tombs met with Christ, and then that in fear of him the demons went into the swine, and many were killed. But Mark did not shrink from making up an enormous number of swine, for he puts it thus: “he said unto him, ‘go forth, thou unclean spirit, from the man.’ And he asked him, ‘what is thy name?’ And he answered, ‘Legion.’ And there was there a herd of swine feeding. And the demons besought him that he would suffer them to depart into the swine. And when they had departed into the swine, they rushed down the steep into the sea, about two thousand, and were choked; and they that fed them fled!” What a myth! What humbug! What flat mockery! A herd of two thousand swine ran into the sea, and were choked and perished!​
And when one hears how the demons besought him that they might not be sent into the abyss, and how Christ was prevailed on and did not do so, but sent them into the swine, will not one say: “Alas, what ignorance! Alas, what foolish knavery, that he should take account of murderous spirits, which were working much harm in the world, and that he should grant them what they wished.” What the demons wished was to dance through life, and make the world a perpetual plaything. They wanted to stir up the sea, and fill the world's whole theatre with sorrow. They wanted to trouble the elements by their disturbance, and to crush the whole creation by their hurtfulness. So at all events it was not right that, instead of casting these originators of evil, who had treated mankind so ill, into that region of the abyss which they prayed to be delivered from, he should be softened by their entreaty and suffer them to work another calamity.​
If the incident is true, and not a fiction, Christ’s doing convicts him of much baseness, that he should drive the demons from one man, and send them into helpless swine; also that he should terrify with panic those who kept them, making them fly breathless and excited, and agitate the city with the disturbance which resulted. For was it not just to heal the harm not merely of one man or two or three or thirteen, but of everybody, especially as it was for this purpose that he was testified to have come into this life? But to merely loose one man from bonds which were invisible, and to inflict similar bonds upon others; to free certain men happily from their fears, but to surround others with fears without reason—this should rightfully be called not right action but rascality.​
Once more, if you regard it not as fiction, but bearing some relation to truth, there is really plenty to laugh at. For come now, here is a point we must carefully inquire into: how was it that so large a herd of swine was being kept at that time in the land of Judæa, seeing that they were to the Jews from the beginning the most unclean and hated form of beast? And, again, how were all those swine choked, when it was a lake and not a deep sea? It may be left to babes to make a decision about all this.​

Matthew 8:28-34 | Mark 5:1-20 | Luke 8:26-39

zdgUpz5Pzsqy29mifGmPRF-650-80.jpg

speaking of swine and throwing pearls before them, I deleted my first post. Shall we now discuss good Christian’s ( that’s if they are Christian in the first place) being tolerant of other’s opinions and beliefs? Or maybe being intolerant is what makes a ‘good’ Christian?

Then maybe we can quickly move on to a discussion of the so-called ‘virgin birth’, in time for the holiday and all.
 
I liked it when Morrissey wore the Roman collar, but unfortunately he seemed to be copying Sinéad O'Connor, who had done it just a few years earlier, and in her case it was way more interesting because she had actually been ordained a priestess in a bonkers Catholic sect in Spain that had its own pope.

0_sineadoc.png
I do know, they both looked pretty bad-ass in a collar.
 
speaking of swine and throwing pearls before them, I deleted my first post. Shall we now discuss good Christian’s ( that’s if they are Christian in the first place) being tolerant of other’s opinions and beliefs? Or maybe being intolerant is what makes a ‘good’ Christian?

It's impossible to say what makes a good Christian and what makes a heretic, since "Christian" is claimed by all believers, who all anathematize their ideological enemies. They'll agree on a bible canon and interpret it differently. There are Catholics who excommunicate Pope Francis. Homosexuality, divorce, abortion, the real presence, the papacy—these things aren't agreed upon, and there's radio silence from heaven, except for the supposed gift of the Holy Spirit. But that doesn't change the meter, because there doesn't seem to be any difference between the guidance of the Holy Spirit and people having different opinions.
 
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It's impossible to say what makes a good Christian and what makes a heretic, since "Christian" is claimed by all believers, who anathematize their ideological enemies. They'll agree on a bible canon and interpret it differently. There are Catholics who excommunicate Pope Francis. Homosexuality, divorce, abortion, the real presence, the papacy—these things aren't agreed upon, and there's radio silence from heaven, except for the supposed gift of the Holy Spirit. But that doesn't change the meter, because there doesn't seem to be any difference between the guidance of the Holy Spirit and people having different opinions.

Well, I’m thinking J-Dogg himself would think it wrong if one did not turn their other cheek to be smite also. And he did basically surrender himself to be crucified, talk about being tolerant of other’s actions!

Edit: I’m just saying that some of the so-called Christians here on solo, could learn a thing or two from his teachings and not be so quick to downvote other’s opinions!
They need to leave those judgements in the hands of God!
 
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Well, I’m thinking J-Dogg himself would think it wrong if one did not turn their other cheek to be smite also. And he did basically surrender himself to be crucified, talk about being tolerant!

That’s a good point, but then again Jesus declared it would be worse for the towns who didn’t believe in his miracles than it was for Sodom and Gomorrah. And he said Judas would go to hell for betraying him, and for that matter so would anyone who didn’t believe in him—which he also said would be a majority of people(!)—so I don’t know, some of his stuff is love and tolerance, but some of it is rather severe and unforgiving. I guess he had his issues and contradictions just like the rest of us mortals.
 
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