Jarvis Cocker on Morrissey's autobiography

[Originally posted in the Strange/unexpected Moz references? thread]

í don't know how strange or unexpected this reference is, given the individuals involved, but í may as well post it here as anywhere.

In the current issue {No.10 ~ Winter 2017} of "The Happy Reader" magazine, 'National Treasure' Jarvis Cocker is the cover star and subject of a 26 page feature interview by 'Poet' Simon Armitage.

About half-way through this epic encounter, Armitage asks if we can ever expect to read 'Jarvis: My Story'. {The answer is yes. kinda.} But as part of the ensuing chat, Armitage asks, 'Did you read Morrissey's autobiography?'

JC: I got sent it. I read the first two or three pages. I found the style grated on me. The present tense thing. I've only really properly met him once, in an airport waiting to fly to Dublin. We recognised each other, and we were in this tiny little space so we had to talk to each other, and I really liked him. He was funny and just had an interesting manner about him.

Elsewhere, it's an excellent, interesting, stimulating interview {with an appendix of JC's recommended bed-time reading} and lovely portraits by the god-like Alasdair McLellan. Conducted in two sessions, pre & post summer last year, first in Cocker's Paris flat, second in The London Library on St James's Square.




It was a stimulating read on a couple of levels.

There are people that í know, or have known, that would wish with all their hearts that Morrissey was doing exactly this kind of piece, and occupying the kind of cultural cranny that Cocker cosily inhabits. {The Guardian thought they were on to a winner when they hooked Armitage up with Moz in 2010; and look how that turned out}. And í kind of get that wish.

But then, there was a rather sad line in the interview, when Jarvis says, "But I became aware that no-one was waiting with their tongue out for me to make an album". He's a Pop Star, with no Pop.
Or as the magazine intro puts it he is a 'British Cultural icon...an old college room-mate they'd clearly like to re-connect with'.
Ugh.
 
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Comments

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
[Originally posted in the Strange/unexpected Moz references? thread]

There are people that í know, or have known, that would wish with all their hearts that Morrissey was doing exactly this kind of piece, and occupying the kind of cultural cranny that Cocker cosily inhabits. {The Guardian thought they were on to a winner when they hooked Armitage up with Moz in 2010; and look how that turned out}. And í kind of get that wish.
I sometimes get the impression Morrissey thinks this IS the cultural cranny he occupies; or at least, that's the spot he's aiming for, but he can't quite fathom why it's been denied him. And you're right, I do wish he would do this kind of stuff, but you and I both know he would find a way to screw it up so that he got more headlines out of it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Love Jarvis and love pulp but i didn’t love his solo albums to be honest. Sounds like a nice article
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A good interview, some excellent photos, and a fascinating point from Joe regarding the relative cultural status of Morrissey and Jarvis Cocker now. He was always, in a way, a pretender to the Morrissey throne – indeed, Morrissey once declared that 'the problem with Jarvis Cocker is that he isn't me', and in a way it is true - the songs of Pulp were never the equal of The Smiths, and Morrissey's highest achievements as a solo artist surpass Cocker's also.

Cocker's coyness regarding Morrissey here is a little strange - as if he were not all that familiar with his work, as he surely must be.

It does indeed remind one (and I don't mean this in a merely critical way) how genuinely peculiar and perplexing Morrissey's life and career has been since 1987...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Any chance of some scans of the Cocker articles (the words, not just the pics)??
 

Stanley the 2nd

Active Member
As an aside, is the magazine any good as I almost took out a subscription when it first launched?

Looks fairly cheap for a mag so might take out a sub on a whim.
 

gordyboy9

GAME OF DEATH.
still wondering how a books writing style can grate when you have only read a couple of pages,maybe it was the streets upon streets bit that ruined it for him.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
still wondering how a books writing style can grate when you have only read a couple of pages,maybe it was the streets upon streets bit that ruined it for him.
I get what he means. No chapters, mangled syntax, intensely florid language, and the second paragraph doesn't start until page 9. I wasn't sure I could persevere with it myself, although I did, and enjoyed it in the end.
 

gordyboy9

GAME OF DEATH.
I get what he means. No chapters, mangled syntax, intensely florid language, and the second paragraph doesn't start until page 9. I wasn't sure I could persevere with it myself, although I did, and enjoyed it in the end.
your not going to see any chapters in a book when your only two pages in,maybe he got the books mixed up and it was LIST OF THE LOST he was reading,
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
your not going to see any chapters in a book when your only two pages in,maybe he got the books mixed up and it was LIST OF THE LOST he was reading,
Well, yes, that could explain the grating. Not chapters, maybe, but it's not unreasonable to expect paragraphs.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I sometimes get the impression Morrissey thinks this IS the cultural cranny he occupies; or at least, that's the spot he's aiming for, but he can't quite fathom why it's been denied him. And you're right, I do wish he would do this kind of stuff, but you and I both know he would find a way to screw it up so that he got more headlines out of it.
To think Moz would want to be anyway like Jarvis and have his space in British culture is to wholly miss the point of Moz. Moz was getting shoe honed into the media friendly eccentric role , he chose not to go down that route . He could have had what Jarvis has at any time , he still could. Jarvis can never have what Moz has
He rightly saw that its fake ,pretend "look at me in my red shoes my plastic bags with with packed lunch in " its so forced .
 

joe frady

Vile Refusenik
As an aside, is the magazine any good as I almost took out a subscription when it first launched?

Looks fairly cheap for a mag so might take out a sub on a whim.
It is the dogs bollocks Stan II, as they say around Bloomsbury.

Interviews are thrillingly long & thoughtful, and the articles are always surprising and unexpected.
In this one, after Jarvis you get a member of Pussy Riot on bedtime reading in a Russian prison, an explanation of how to get stains out of a 300 year old christening gown, a recipe for bread and Will Self's sex-life.

And it smells divine.

.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A good interview, some excellent photos, and a fascinating point from Joe regarding the relative cultural status of Morrissey and Jarvis Cocker now. He was always, in a way, a pretender to the Morrissey throne – indeed, Morrissey once declared that 'the problem with Jarvis Cocker is that he isn't me', and in a way it is true - the songs of Pulp were never the equal of The Smiths, and Morrissey's highest achievements as a solo artist surpass Cocker's also.

Cocker's coyness regarding Morrissey here is a little strange - as if he were not all that familiar with his work, as he surely must be.

It does indeed remind one (and I don't mean this in a merely critical way) how genuinely peculiar and perplexing Morrissey's life and career has been since 1987...
Following this up, it's a shame of course that whilst Jarvis is doing these odd little things around the place - on BBC Radio 6 Music, in the art world, with Faber and Faber and so on, Morrissey is increasingly regarded by the public in the same manner that, say, John Lydon is - a kind of caricature troll figure who is wheeled out by the middle-aged Smiths-loving journalists at The Guardian every few months when he says something silly.

I'm not one of those who hate everything that Morrissey has done recently, but the man who complains about the 'propaganda' of the 'mainstream media' and the 'cow' that knows more than a wife is such a long way from the arch, ironic Alan Bennett/Victoria Wood/Shelagh Delaney loving figure we once knew. It reminds me of something Will Self once wrote: 'The day of reckoning for Morrissey will be when he allows his sense of humour to catch up with his irony.'
 

joe frady

Vile Refusenik
I sometimes get the impression Morrissey thinks this IS the cultural cranny he occupies; or at least, that's the spot he's aiming for, but he can't quite fathom why it's been denied him. And you're right, I do wish he would do this kind of stuff, but you and I both know he would find a way to screw it up so that he got more headlines out of it.
Perhaps so.
But í do believe that Morrissey is a genuine 'outsider' in a way that Le Cocker thinks he is, but actually isn't. He is a stylist's notion of an 'outsider'. {Co-incidentally, the mother of his son is...a fashion stylist}.

For good or ill {M.'s and ours} he is never gonna fit comfortably anywhere, no matter the cranny.
A fate sometimes of his own making, sometimes of other's.
He didn't belong in The Smiths.
He's the congenital awkward bugger.

.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
It is the dogs bollocks Stan II, as they say around Bloomsbury.

Interviews are thrillingly long & thoughtful, and the articles are always surprising and unexpected.
In this one, after Jarvis you get a member of Pussy Riot on bedtime reading in a Russian prison, an explanation of how to get stains out of a 300 year old christening gown, a recipe for bread and Will Self's sex-life.

And it smells divine.

.
Almost worth it for Will Self's sex life alone, I should think.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
To think Moz would want to be anyway like Jarvis and have his space in British culture is to wholly miss the point of Moz. Moz was getting shoe honed into the media friendly eccentric role , he chose not to go down that route . He could have had what Jarvis has at any time , he still could. Jarvis can never have what Moz has
He rightly saw that its fake ,pretend "look at me in my red shoes my plastic bags with with packed lunch in " its so forced .
I don't find Jarvis forced or fake, but then I don't know him. I do think he is more in touch with normal life than Morrissey, though. so from that point alone, I don't think Morrissey could do the things he does. I think he's better educated, for a start; I can't see Morrissey being a commissioning editor at Faber & Faber, his last book was unintelligible garbage. Jarvis also went on Question Time to publicly state/defend his views, something Morrissey has allegedly been asked to do many times and always chickened out of.
 

Peppermint

Well-Known Member
Perhaps so.
But í do believe that Morrissey is a genuine 'outsider' in a way that Le Cocker thinks he is, but actually isn't. He is a stylist's notion of an 'outsider'. {Co-incidentally, the mother of his son is...a fashion stylist}.

For good or ill {M.'s and ours} he is never gonna fit comfortably anywhere, no matter the cranny.
A fate sometimes of his own making, sometimes of other's.
He didn't belong in The Smiths.
He's the congenital awkward bugger.

.
I've always found Jarvis quite authentic, but maybe there's something I'm not seeing. You're right about the awkward bugger, though :)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Perhaps so.
But í do believe that Morrissey is a genuine 'outsider' in a way that Le Cocker thinks he is, but actually isn't. He is a stylist's notion of an 'outsider'. {Co-incidentally, the mother of his son is...a fashion stylist}.

For good or ill {M.'s and ours} he is never gonna fit comfortably anywhere, no matter the cranny.
A fate sometimes of his own making, sometimes of other's.
He didn't belong in The Smiths.
He's the congenital awkward bugger.

.
Gotta agree
 
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