"It’s weird being an immigrant Muslim Morrissey fan" by Shihab S Joi - HuffPost UK

If you don't take a stand you can't have the open conversation. There are several of us, me included. who've openly expressed that we aren't fans of Islam and welcome discussion but you can't discuss with hateful EDL twats, only oppose. You might not like it but that opposition is a healthy thing unless you want to be goose stepping in a couple of years.
I hate to break it to you, but commenting on a fan site for a musician most people don't give a toss about is not going to change the political landscape dramatically. Making unfounded personal judgements and spreading the word racist around like cheap margarine is not taking a stand: it is just as unthinking, reactionary and and intolerant as the ideologies you are against.
 
I hate to break it to you, but commenting on a fan site for a musician most people don't give a toss about is not going to change the political landscape dramatically. Making unfounded personal judgements and spreading the word racist around like cheap margarine is not taking a stand: it is just as unthinking, reactionary and and intolerant as the ideologies you are against.

How middle class.

It's about opposing that shit everywhere as and when it arises.

It's always funny how opposing hating on people based on stereotypes is seen as being as bad as hating on people based on stereotypes.

Your moral compass seems to be a bit off.
 
No, you're in group B. Tory is as Tory does.

Where are these Tories? There are precious few in Parliament. Labour should be pleased they’ve shifted so far to the left, even if it has driven them mad (and unelectable) in the process. At least they’ve been prepared to go way back in time to attempt to find themselves. Cameron called himself the heir to Blair and that’s what he delivered. We still have a New Labour government. You can count the Conservatives on the government benches on the fingers of one hand.

There’s a lot of moral preening on the left. We see it here in certain quarters. If I dug out an old Echo and The Bunnymen t-shirt from the eighties, and perhaps with the aid of warm spoons managed to get into it, I’m advertising my liking for their music. I’m saying to those who might agree with me that, like them, I have “good” taste. I’m not hoping to bump into Ian McCulloch so I can silently show my support for his continued struggle to pay the gas bill.

An Antifa t-shirt is a fashion statement. No more, no less, and fashions come and go.
 
Where are these Tories? There are precious few in Parliament. Labour should be pleased they’ve shifted so far to the left, even if it has driven them mad (and unelectable) in the process. At least they’ve been prepared to go way back in time to attempt to find themselves. Cameron called himself the heir to Blair and that’s what he delivered. We still have a New Labour government. You can count the Conservatives on the government benches on the fingers of one hand.

There’s a lot of moral preening on the left. We see it here in certain quarters. If I dug out an old Echo and The Bunnymen t-shirt from the eighties, and perhaps with the aid of warm spoons managed to get into it, I’m advertising my liking for their music. I’m saying to those who might agree with me that, like them, I have “good” taste. I’m not hoping to bump into Ian McCulloch so I can silently show my support for his continued struggle to pay the gas bill.

An Antifa t-shirt is a fashion statement. No more, no less, and fashions come and go.

I'm not sure how Blair was on the left or the current Conservative government are. How far right do you need to be to think that?

Not sure why you're always banging on about 'the left' either. It's weird, considering no f***er on the left has held any power here in your lifetime. Fear of an imaginary bogey man.
 
If you don't take a stand you can't have the open conversation. There are several of us, me included. who've openly expressed that we aren't fans of Islam and welcome discussion but you can't discuss with hateful EDL twats, only oppose. You might not like it but that opposition is a healthy thing unless you want to be goose stepping in a couple of years.

Here we have some agreement. There was a news item on local television last night about opposition to the opening of an Islamic centre. The residents were concerned primarily on the grounds of issues of problematic parking and how it would affect local trade. The person they chose to interview the longest, however, was a middle aged white bloke dressed in black carrying a St George’s flag and waffling on about Islamisation of the West.

This therefore enabled the entire protest to be defined as far right and councillors and those supporting the project to get away without answering any serious questions about the impact the new centre would have on the area. Which was, of course, their primary objective.
 
I didn't get that from it at all, he's able to say, I like the music enough to ignore the other stuff.

While we're in the business of stereotyping, I'd say we fall into several camps. Racists, Conservatives who have always been happy to turn a blind eye to that stuff, people who agree with Moz whatever he says and defend him to the death, people who can seperate the man and the music and people who've just decided he's beyond worth bothering with.

I'm going to say that you're in group B.

And what about people who don’t agree with everything Morrissey says but don’t think he’s racist? I’d include myself in that group. I wouldn’t give For Britain my vote, but I don’t think the ideas expressed in their manifesto are racist. I just think they’re wrong.

Most people would agree that Islamic extremism is a threat to our personal safety. It might not be the biggest threat -- I happen to think a system that simultaneously creates rampant poverty and demonises the poor is a bigger threat -- but it is a very real threat. The 23 people shredded to death and 500 injured in Manchester on 22nd May 2017 are proof of that.

I just don’t think clamping-down on ‘Islamic immigration’ is the answer. It’s an answer, and not a racist one. In many ways it’s eminently practical. I just think it would create more disenfranchisement among the existing Muslim population and create more opportunities for radicalisation. Don’t get me wrong, it’s precisely the kind of answer (probably the only answer) that appeals to racists, just as For Britain will undoubtedly attract racists. It's an unpleasant solution, a miserable solution certain to create unhappiness, and I don't like it. But that doesn't make it racist.

My preferred solution is to engage with progressive Muslim groups here in the UK and, in the long term, dramatically adjust our disastrous foreign policy. I suspect those on the right will see this as wishy-washy and doomed to failure. They could very well be correct. I could very well be proposing a solution that has less to do with solving the problem and everything to do with making me feel like a good person. I could very well be guilty of letting my heart rule my head and indulging in the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty. I suspect I need to keep thinking about this, the opposite of which is shouting ‘Racist c***! Don’t you like brown people?’ at everyone who disagrees with me.
 
Here we have some agreement. There was a news item on local television last night about opposition to the opening of an Islamic centre. The residents were concerned primarily on the grounds of issues of problematic parking and how it would affect local trade. The person they chose to interview the longest, however, was a middle aged white bloke dressed in black carrying a St George’s flag and waffling on about Islamisation of the West.

This therefore enabled the entire protest to be defined as far right and councillors and those supporting the project to get away without answering any serious questions about the impact the new centre would have on the area. Which was, of course, their primary objective.

Another thing, away from that, the nutters who blow people up want the EDL sorts. Tha
And what about people who don’t agree with everything Morrissey says but don’t think he’s racist? I’d include myself in that group. I wouldn’t give For Britain my vote, but I don’t think the ideas expressed in their manifesto are racist. I just think they’re wrong.

Most people would agree that Islamic extremism is a threat to our personal safety. It might not be the biggest threat -- I happen to think a system that simultaneously creates rampant poverty and demonises the poor is a bigger threat -- but it is a very real threat. The 23 people shredded to death and 500 injured in Manchester on 22nd May 2017 are proof of that.

I just don’t think clamping-down on ‘Islamic immigration’ is the answer. It’s an answer, and not a racist one. In many ways it’s eminently practical. I just think it would create more disenfranchisement among the existing Muslim population and create more opportunities for radicalisation. Don’t get me wrong, it’s precisely the kind of answer (probably the only answer) that appeals to racists, just as For Britain will undoubtedly attract racists. It's an unpleasant solution, a miserable solution certain to create unhappiness, and I don't like it. But that doesn't make it racist.

My preferred solution is to engage with progressive Muslim groups here in the UK and, in the long term, dramatically adjust our disastrous foreign policy. I suspect those on the right will see this as wishy-washy and doomed to failure. They could very well be correct. I could very well be proposing a solution that has less to do with solving the problem and everything to do with making me feel like a good person. I could very well be guilty of letting my heart rule my head and indulging in the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty. I suspect I need to keep thinking about this, the opposite of which is shouting ‘Racist c***! Don’t you like brown people?’ at everyone who disagrees with me.

You're talking about issues within Islam and solving them, focusing on Muslims and little else well... you know. For Britain exist for one reason, the rest is just filler. Nobody is forcing you to think they're racist, it's up to you how you view them.

On the question of radical Islamism, it's complex and involves us as well as them. Leaving aside the problems involved on the Islamist side, it's a concern that we're carrying on regardless and have learned nothing from the actions which made us a target for attacks.

The immigration thing is interesting as most people who are a danger were born here and grew up here.

ps, Flibberty, you can stick your ratings up your arse.
 
I'm not sure how Blair was on the left or the current Conservative government are. How far right do you need to be to think that?

Not sure why you're always banging on about 'the left' either. It's weird, considering no f***er on the left has held any power here in your lifetime. Fear of an imaginary bogey man.

I was young during the destruction the left visited on the nation in the seventies, but I still remember it. I remember my dad connecting a black and white portable telly to a car battery during the three day week. As the battery ran down the picture got smaller. A vivid memory of my childhood is watching Ernie (The Fastest Milkman in the West) on Top of the Pops with a picture the size of a postage stamp. That was the same week the house nearly burnt down because we had to use candles to light the place as the unions turned the power off. Don’t tell me I don’t know about the left, Charlie. The idiocy of the left created the environment in which Thatcher won three general elections.

I think Blair was actually extremely left wing. The talk of him being a centrist isn’t borne out by his actions, particularly domestically. He was every bit as much a revolutionary as Thatcher, perhaps more. The only difference was that Thatcher didn’t seek to hide it under a veneer of middle of the road respectability. Blairite dogma is immensely more sinister than anything Corbyn might espouse, not least because Corbyn, for his myriad faults, doesn’t seek to hide his aspirations and alliances. There’s more than hint of the smiling assassin about Blair and his fellow travellers. I was reading about his curious rise to power. It wasn’t usual for a young public schoolboy with no party or union affiliations to speak of to gain selection for a safe northern Labour seat under normal circumstances. In 1983 he was dropped into the newly created constituency of Sedgefield, a geographic area that had been delivering sixty percent Labour wins for decades. Most odd.

We assume, correctly, that Blair was instrumental in the destruction of Iraq. History will prove that was as nothing to the destruction he wrought on the UK. He is no more interested in what was best for this country than Napoleon was, as underlined by his continued and underhand attempts to overturn the Brexit vote.
 
I'm not sure how somebody who got rid of banking regulations so we could be more free market could be seen as on the left. He admittedly created a minimum wage but then that was needed and still is.

Corbyn is better than Blair, despite him being an old hippy, because he's honest which is rare considering how corrupt our politicians are. Who knows if his policies would work or would be disasterous? To be honest I think for one term they'd be great but in the long run they'd be disasterous. Sometimes you need a redress of the balance and a little resetting of the rigged game that comes from being run by the corrupt.

Your recollections of the left are like my recollections under Thatcher. Say what you like about the 70's but the country recovered, vast areas never recovered from Thatcher. You don't become as hated as she was by accident.

Back to Blair, at least he united the country, there must only be handful of Labour Party loyalists who don't hate him with a passion.
 
Here we have some agreement. There was a news item on local television last night about opposition to the opening of an Islamic centre. The residents were concerned primarily on the grounds of issues of problematic parking and how it would affect local trade. The person they chose to interview the longest, however, was a middle aged white bloke dressed in black carrying a St George’s flag and waffling on about Islamisation of the West.

This therefore enabled the entire protest to be defined as far right and councillors and those supporting the project to get away without answering any serious questions about the impact the new centre would have on the area. Which was, of course, their primary objective.

"I love Muslims but we can't have a mosque because it creates parking problems."
This is a brilliant strategy. Morrissey could use your help.
I'm joking. I get your point and I understand how business owners suffer when people can't come to their shops but I also think that if the people that are actually worried about Islamization would appeal to these practical concerns in a rational way they would get have an easier time being heard. Except, of course, the people reporting on these things are always going to be drawn to the more colorful story and that's always going to be the loony shouting about conspiracies.
 
And what about people who don’t agree with everything Morrissey says but don’t think he’s racist? I’d include myself in that group. I wouldn’t give For Britain my vote, but I don’t think the ideas expressed in their manifesto are racist. I just think they’re wrong.

Most people would agree that Islamic extremism is a threat to our personal safety. It might not be the biggest threat -- I happen to think a system that simultaneously creates rampant poverty and demonises the poor is a bigger threat -- but it is a very real threat. The 23 people shredded to death and 500 injured in Manchester on 22nd May 2017 are proof of that.

I just don’t think clamping-down on ‘Islamic immigration’ is the answer. It’s an answer, and not a racist one. In many ways it’s eminently practical. I just think it would create more disenfranchisement among the existing Muslim population and create more opportunities for radicalisation. Don’t get me wrong, it’s precisely the kind of answer (probably the only answer) that appeals to racists, just as For Britain will undoubtedly attract racists. It's an unpleasant solution, a miserable solution certain to create unhappiness, and I don't like it. But that doesn't make it racist.

My preferred solution is to engage with progressive Muslim groups here in the UK and, in the long term, dramatically adjust our disastrous foreign policy. I suspect those on the right will see this as wishy-washy and doomed to failure. They could very well be correct. I could very well be proposing a solution that has less to do with solving the problem and everything to do with making me feel like a good person. I could very well be guilty of letting my heart rule my head and indulging in the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty. I suspect I need to keep thinking about this, the opposite of which is shouting ‘Racist c***! Don’t you like brown people?’ at everyone who disagrees with me.

Agreed
 
Good morning everyone! It's a beautiful spring day here, and the sun coming up over the mountains could break your heart.

In any case, I haven't had my coffee yet and I forget what we are all supposed to be so angry about. Could somebody remind me? Thanks in advance.
 
I'm not sure how Blair was on the left or the current Conservative government are. How far right do you need to be to think that?

Not sure why you're always banging on about 'the left' either. It's weird, considering no f***er on the left has held any power here in your lifetime. Fear of an imaginary bogey man.


Conservatives seem a bit of this and that these days. Still punishing the poor, the unemployed, the elderly and the disabled, whilst still propagating an enourmous overseas aid budget and doing very little other than the Prevent scheme to sort out internal Islamic terrorism. Their internal arguing on Brexit is prime evidence.
 
I'm not sure how somebody who got rid of banking regulations so we could be more free market could be seen as on the left. He admittedly created a minimum wage but then that was needed and still is.

Corbyn is better than Blair, despite him being an old hippy, because he's honest which is rare considering how corrupt our politicians are. Who knows if his policies would work or would be disasterous? To be honest I think for one term they'd be great but in the long run they'd be disasterous. Sometimes you need a redress of the balance and a little resetting of the rigged game that comes from being run by the corrupt.

Your recollections of the left are like my recollections under Thatcher. Say what you like about the 70's but the country recovered, vast areas never recovered from Thatcher. You don't become as hated as she was by accident.

Back to Blair, at least he united the country, there must only be handful of Labour Party loyalists who don't hate him with a passion.


One thing Thatcher did help was music and young bands. Without her various schemes and letting people get on with it, all that great, great music wouldn't have happened. On the flipside of course, is those that weren't making music or in the arts, were left to rot.
 
Conservatives seem a bit of this and that these days. Still punishing the poor, the unemployed, the elderly and the disabled, whilst still propagating an enourmous overseas aid budget and doing very little other than the Prevent scheme to sort out internal Islamic terrorism. Their internal arguing on Brexit is prime evidence.

I don't think Brexit has anything to do with the debate on Islamic terrorism. To be honest when it's internalized like it is I think all you can do is let those in charge of prevention get on with it and maybe stop bombing countries, oh wait...
 
You should never apologise for the words of a racist. You should condemn them. Always.
Mate, go studying up on some Smiths knowledge and have another crack on Mastermind. Your furrowed brow is put to better use reciting music history rather than satirical articles.
 
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was watching the news channel yesterday and a poll showed 73 percent of uk citizens think Britain is more divided than it was ten years ago,second highest in Europe after Italy,a lot of people agree with M but will never say it.

It's divided in part because of those like Morrissey who put their focus on the very small minority of immigrants who commit acid attacks and not the very large majority of immigrants who are human beings just trying to live their best life like the rest of us.
 
Very true. Plus how do you go from having the negative mudslinging of the referendum and then suddenly become undivided again?

The powers that be did a little bit too good a job on dividing us this time.
 

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