It’s not about politics

[Roman Holiday]

Yeah, I've heard of it, but so far I've only seen it as an over-used buzzword by mostly women online. Their examples hardly ever align with actual toxicity. Not saying that toxic masculinity doesn't exist, but I see more timid men than ever now-a-days.

Would this be timid as opposed to aggressive? That seems like a good thing. You and I might be encountering different kinds of men. I live in the South, in a university town at that, so I'm seeing a lot of d-bag frat boys, hip-hop thugs, and fishing/hunting "bros." Online it's far worse in the anti-woke corners. I guess a lot of it depends on a person's definition of "toxic," though.

 

[Ashley_TakeABow]

Would this be timid as opposed to aggressive? That seems like a good thing. You and I might be encountering different kinds of men. I live in the South, in a university town at that, so I'm seeing a lot of d-bag frat boys, hip-hop thugs, and fishing/hunting "bros." Online it's far worse in the anti-woke corners. I guess a lot of it depends on a person's definition of "toxic," though.

Timid as opposed to aggression, yes, but also just normal men who aren't aggressive being more nervous than ever to do or say something "wrong".

I live in the Midwest USA, a lot of "manly" men here - fishermen, hunters, laborers, bar-bros, etc. I also work in a big factory, which is male dominated. I grew up with 4 brothers, no sisters. I mostly had male friends growing up because I didn't get along well with women, I didn't relate with them much, because all they did was objectify and put men down that don't deserve it and that always slowly broke up our friendships. I didn't hear that type of talk much from men; rarely. I am quite "girly" though, I like cute and sweet things, art, but I also love the outdoors and working with my hands. I've played video games since I was a child, which is also more of a "male dominated" hobby.

I guess it does just depend on one's perspective, up-bringing, experiences on what is toxic or not. I have known plenty of toxic men in my life, but much much more toxic women.

I just am not a fan of the term being slung around and attaching to men that truly don't deserve it. It is over-used, which is dangerous.

At my work place I hear all types of misandry, because my department is mostly women. I don't get along with any of them, but I am pretty shy to begin with. The other day I was behind a couple of them and a man walked by and said good morning to us, a few seconds later they were like, "WHEW... that booming voice.. sooo sexy," then they talked about how they want to find a man that is a foot taller than them, muscular, and make double $ what they make, but also have a sexy, booming voice like that guy.. etc... That, to me, is an example of toxic feminity -- Clear objectivcation of men. I personally don't want to hear women getting all creamy about a dude while I'm at work, first of all. Gives me the ick.

Women are being quiet bold lately. By bold, I mean creepy.
It's like men and women have switched creep roles.

There are 2 sides to this coin.

 

[Juan Dulces]

Timid as opposed to aggression, yes, but also just normal men who aren't aggressive being more nervous than ever to do or say something "wrong".

I live in the Midwest USA, a lot of "manly" men here - fishermen, hunters, laborers, bar-bros, etc. I also work in a big factory, which is male dominated. I grew up with 4 brothers, no sisters. I mostly had male friends growing up because I didn't get along well with women, I didn't relate with them much, because all they did was objectify and put men down that don't deserve it and that always slowly broke up our friendships. I didn't hear that type of talk much from men; rarely. I am quite "girly" though, I like cute and sweet things, art, but I also love the outdoors and working with my hands. I've played video games since I was a child, which is also more of a "male dominated" hobby.

I guess it does just depend on one's perspective, up-bringing, experiences on what is toxic or not. I have known plenty of toxic men in my life, but much much more toxic women.

I just am not a fan of the term being slung around and attaching to men that truly don't deserve it. It is over-used, which is dangerous.

At my work place I hear all types of misandry, because my department is mostly women. I don't get along with any of them, but I am pretty shy to begin with. The other day I was behind a couple of them and a man walked by and said good morning to us, a few seconds later they were like, "WHEW... that booming voice.. sooo sexy," then they talked about how they want to find a man that is a foot taller than them, muscular, and make double $ what they make, but also have a sexy, booming voice like that guy.. etc... That, to me, is an example of toxic feminity -- Clear objectivcation of men. I personally don't want to hear women getting all creamy about a dude while I'm at work, first of all. Gives me the ick.

Women are being quiet bold lately. By bold, I mean creepy.
It's like men and women have switched creep roles.

There are 2 sides to this coin.

Incredible observations and expressed so well too! Thank you for that!

 

[Roman Holiday]

At my work place I hear all types of misandry, because my department is mostly women. I don't get along with any of them, but I am pretty shy to begin with. The other day I was behind a couple of them and a man walked by and said good morning to us, a few seconds later they were like, "WHEW... that booming voice.. sooo sexy," then they talked about how they want to find a man that is a foot taller than them, muscular, and make double $ what they make, but also have a sexy, booming voice like that guy.. etc... That, to me, is an example of toxic feminity -- Clear objectivcation of men. I personally don't want to hear women getting all creamy about a dude while I'm at work, first of all. Gives me the ick.

Did they use profanities and fixate on the man's physique and talk about which sex acts they'd like to do with him? Because that would be the true flip side of the creepy male coin, in terms of objectification. I certainly sympathize with your not wanting to hear about other people's explicit sexual fantasies at work, though. I have tried politely to get people off that topic when they bring up it unsolicited; it's usually in vain, or ends up with me being faulted for prudishness.

Objectification behind one's back is a fairly victimless crime (except for the innocent bystanders like us who are subjected to it). Statistically speaking, though, men put their objectification into practice far more often in terms of sexual harassment and rape. I'm trying to think of a female version of, say, Harvey Weinstein, and no one comes to mind.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

The other day I was behind a couple of them and a man walked by and said good morning to us, a few seconds later they were like, "WHEW... that booming voice.. sooo sexy," then they talked about how they want to find a man that is a foot taller than them, muscular, and make double $ what they make, but also have a sexy, booming voice like that guy.. etc...

Did they mention anything about poetry?

 

[Juan Dulces]

Did they mention anything about poetry?

On a side note....I got an A+ in college poetry, freshman year. The BIGGEST REASON for that ---- Morrissey!

 

[bhops]

It wasn't difficult to admit. A zygote is very different from an infant. And it's not a sentient creature. You can, if you want, define "baby" to include a fertilized egg at 1 week, but that seems a severe stretch to me.



But I don't want to codify Roe v. Wade, since it essentially allowed for abortion at all times during a pregnancy. I don't have a problem with Dobbs per se; it's probably better to leave this divisive issue up to the states. The original discussion was whether I should throw in with the "anti-woke" and specifically MAGA faction.

Have you ever had a baby? Have you sat in the room while they scan the mother's belly at 6-8 weeks and you see the heartbeat. They don't go 'oh look this is your fetus.' But again if you're OK with murdering life, there is little I can do to persuade you otherwise.

 

[bhops]

Yeah, I've heard of it, but so far I've only seen it as an over-used buzzword by mostly women online. Their examples hardly ever align with actual toxicity. Not saying that toxic masculinity doesn't exist, but I see more timid men than ever now-a-days.
Something that should, and doesn't get discussed enough, is toxic feminity. It seems to be running rampant lately. I see it/hear it in real life, as well as online, a hell-of-a-lot more.

Bravo Ashley. There is only toxicity and it comes from both genders.

 

[Ashley_TakeABow]

Did they use profanities and fixate on the man's physique and talk about which sex acts they'd like to do with him? Because that would be the true flip side of the creepy male coin, in terms of objectification. I certainly sympathize with your not wanting to hear about other people's explicit sexual fantasies at work, though. I have tried politely to get people off that topic when they bring up it unsolicited; it's usually in vain, or ends up with me being faulted for prudishness.

Objectification behind one's back is a fairly victimless crime (except for the innocent bystanders like us who are subjected to it). Statistically speaking, though, men put their objectification into practice far more often in terms of sexual harassment and rape. I'm trying to think of a female version of, say, Harvey Weinstein, and no one comes to mind.

No, thank goodness they didn't go that far. It was a quick interaction.

Yeah sexual harassment and rape are definitely a huge no-no. You are right about them taking it far into that side of things... but I do know that women also do those things. Teachers, for example, is a big one. Boys usually don't tattle on their female teachers when they get assaulted because they think it's "cool".. it gives me the creeps. Male teachers usually, if not always, get told on if they come into a student. There is a weird double standard going on with that. For men it's "weak" or "gay" to tell someone when a woman rapes them.

The simple point I'm trying to make with all of this drivel is that there are terrible women AND men out there. I don't like that it all leans into men mostly, because there are great ones out there that get blamed for things they've never done simply for just being a man. I just can't get behind that feminist train of thought..

I'm glad we're having a real conversation about this, honestly. Thank you.

 

[Ashley_TakeABow]

Did they mention anything about poetry?

Nope! Not a requirement!