"Israel" should be released as a solidarity single now

chrismdavis99 said:
This kind of talk is fascism and supports ethnic cleansing, as well as this abhorent and disgusting talk about crushing people.
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The ignore function is fabulous. Welcome to Solo Asylum.
 
Les Tameside said:
“And should you dare, enjoy your body
Here tolls Hades welcome bell” (Nietzsche)

“What is the seal of liberation? - To no longer be ashamed in front of oneself." (Morrissey)
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Nietzsche certainly criticised the Judeo-Christian 'dislike' of the body and its drives and desires, although it's debatable how much of that was derived from Judaism per se, and how much of it was derived from sects like the Essenes, and from Paul, the real founder of Christianity, not Jesus. The song does clearly describe an attempt to break away from this supposed Judeo-Christian dislike of the body and its earthly pleasures. Have always found the use of the word 'Hades' in the song a bit incongruous. That word immediately takes the song away from the Judeo-Christian tradition into the classical tradition, which didn't have a dislike of the body. Indeed, the classical tradition celebrated the body and viewed sexuality as a buffet that was there to be enjoyed, as long as traditional gender roles were respected, which they would have thought much more important than any sense of 'guilt' around sexual desire.
The song does seem to suggest that Israel shouldn't hate itself, as the rest of the world hates it, but that it should feel proud of itself and love itself - in the same way that the singer or the subject of the song shouldn't hate himself for enjoying his bodily desires - for who are Catholic priests who take an oath of chastity to give moral direction about sex? That comparison between the land of Israel and the singer or the subject of the song is oblique, but it is definitely there in the song.
 
I suppose another reading of the song is that it is about a young man called 'Israel'. The word can be used as a personal name. It's original use in the Bible was as a personal name given to Jacob. It's a strange choice of song title though, unless you want the listener to think about the land of Israel too.
The word 'Israel' in Hebrew has several suggested meanings, but one of them is 'he who wrestles with God'. I think anyone who was brought up in a religious family, or a religious culture, can identify with that. It's hard to let go of things we were taught as a child, including a sense of 'guilt' when it come to certain aspects of human behaviour. It's why the Jesuits said, give us the child and we will give you the man. We never really let go of those things that are instilled in us as children. Songs like 'Saint in a Stained Glass Window' suggest that Morrissey still wrestles with religious ideas. We all need 'God' at some level, even if it is just for psychological reasons - especially after the death of a loved one.
 
chrismdavis99 said:
Because you can't more like it .. you've lost this argument your points are extremely poor, incorrect and uneducated. You wanted Morrissey to release Israel in solidarity, but you can't back it up. Of course he would never do anything like you have suggested.
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that certainly wasnt my suggestion. i dont give a shit what morrissey releases or doesnt release lol im not that invested. youre a total troll. even your picture has 'troll' written all over it. lol
 
chrismdavis99 said:
www.declassifieduk.org

‘Beheaded babies’ - How UK media reported Israel’s fake news as fact

Britain’s national press have been indispensable allies of Israel throughout its brutal war on Gaza.
www.declassifieduk.org www.declassifieduk.org

Sorry all debunked ...

So will you retreat your statement ?
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I made no statement about beheaded babies.
But it is a fact that 38 children were killed on 7th October, and another 30 children were taken as hostages by those 'brave freedom fighters' that you so clearly admire. Plus all the shooting in the back, and rape, and mutilation of corpses documented by Human Rights Watch. What lovely company you keep.

www.hrw.org

October 7 Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes by Hamas-led Groups

Hamas’ military wing – the Qassam Brigades – and at least four other Palestinian armed groups committed numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity against civilians during the October 7, 2023 assault on southern Israel. Governments with influence over the armed groups should press for the...
www.hrw.org www.hrw.org
 
gashonthenail said:
Nietzsche certainly criticised the Judeo-Christian 'dislike' of the body and its drives and desires, although it's debatable how much of that was derived from Judaism per se, and how much of it was derived from sects like the Essenes, and from Paul, the real founder of Christianity, not Jesus. The song does clearly describe an attempt to break away from this supposed Judeo-Christian dislike of the body and its earthly pleasures. Have always found the use of the word 'Hades' in the song a bit incongruous. That word immediately takes the song away from the Judeo-Christian tradition into the classical tradition, which didn't have a dislike of the body. Indeed, the classical tradition celebrated the body and viewed sexuality as a buffet that was there to be enjoyed, as long as traditional gender roles were respected, which they would have thought much more important than any sense of 'guilt' around sexual desire.
The song does seem to suggest that Israel shouldn't hate itself, as the rest of the world hates it, but that it should feel proud of itself and love itself - in the same way that the singer or the subject of the song shouldn't hate himself for enjoying his bodily desires - for who are Catholic priests who take an oath of chastity to give moral direction about sex? That comparison between the land of Israel and the singer or the subject of the song is oblique, but it is definitely there in the song.
Click to expand...
The world has not hated Israel, but rather has massively aided and cheered it on. But is it okay for Israel to actively hate to death a lot of the rest of the world, backed by its apparent proxies the US & UK?

The story of a 99-year-old woman who was a secretary during the Nazi regime tells us something about the crazy imbalances at high places - https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/worl...i-camp-worker-s-murder-conviction/ar-AA1p6Aok

What does that case mean for even ordinary people around the world also accidentally supporting genocide by just continuing in the jobs they're in?
 
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goinghome said:
The world has not hated Israel, but rather has massively aided and cheered it on. But is it okay for Israel to actively hate to death a lot of the rest of the world, backed by its apparent proxies the US & UK?

The story of a 99-year-old woman who was a secretary during the Nazi regime tells us something about the crazy imbalances at high places - https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/worl...i-camp-worker-s-murder-conviction/ar-AA1p6Aok

What does that case mean for even ordinary people around the world also accidentally supporting genocide by just continuing in the jobs they're in?
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Wasn't she a secratary at a concentration camp?
 
Stephen Hofmann said:
Wasn't she a secratary at a concentration camp?
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Yes, but my point is, think of all the people innocently engaged in similar admin roles, in arms or dual-use component companies, government procurement departments, thousands of executives in companies doing trade with countries committing war crimes, and maybe you get it?
 
goinghome said:
Yes, but my point is, think of all the people innocently engaged in similar admin roles, in arms or dual-use component companies, government procurement departments, thousands of executives in companies doing trade with countries committing war crimes, and maybe you get it?
Click to expand...

Like Addidas.........Aldi.........
 

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