Is the Pretenders cover a message to Johnny?

[Mr. Jackpots]

I thought maybe this had been discussed before but I scrolled through 15 pages of thread titles and didn't see it.

Listening to the Maide Vale show and I am still struck by his decision to cover Back On The Chain Gang...and I remember when I first heard it, I couldn't help wondering if it wasn't a coded message to Johnny, as the song seems to be about a former lover (or very good friend) who has long since parted with the narrator because of reasons the narrator perceives and articulates as being the fault of outside influences who permeated the insular bond of the relationship and coaxed the former lover/friend away.

Lyrically it's very much in line with how Morrissey discusses, or used to discuss, the end of his friendship with Johnny and the Smiths breakup in general...that he would have gone on forever had it been up to him, but lost the group/Johnny's partnership because of other people getting involved.

It's also interesting to note that The Pretenders were one of the first groups Johnny rebounded with after he dumped The Smiths. So there's that element, too.

And yes, Chryssie Hynde is a good and longtime friend of Morrissey's, and the song is just a great song, period, so maybe it has NOTHING to do with any kind of deeper meaning. But I thought maybe it was worth discussing and speculating on, as it's pretty rare of Morrissey to cover songs that popular...I mean, it's one of the biggest hits of the 80s. So I was wondering if maybe there was some deeper relevance at hand.

 

[URBANUS]

 

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine that morrissey has anything to say that he couldnt have said to him in person when the met up recently. The fact that morrissey stopped replying and drifted away makes me think he's not trying to say anything to johnny in public secret code or say anything much at all. I'd say he just likes the song and the songs author. I can't say really how popular the song is as I'd never heard it before and am not a pretenders fan but he's covered songs that were popular in there day so I don't think it being a hit in its time is really relevant

 

[Anonymous]

I thought maybe this had been discussed before but I scrolled through 15 pages of thread titles and didn't see it.

Listening to the Maide Vale show and I am still struck by his decision to cover Back On The Chain Gang...and I remember when I first heard it, I couldn't help wondering if it wasn't a coded message to Johnny, as the song seems to be about a former lover (or very good friend) who has long since parted with the narrator because of reasons the narrator perceives and articulates as being the fault of outside influences who permeated the insular bond of the relationship and coaxed the former lover/friend away.

Lyrically it's very much in line with how Morrissey discusses, or used to discuss, the end of his friendship with Johnny and the Smiths breakup in general...that he would have gone on forever had it been up to him, but lost the group/Johnny's partnership because of other people getting involved.

It's also interesting to note that The Pretenders were one of the first groups Johnny rebounded with after he dumped The Smiths. So there's that element, too.

And yes, Chryssie Hynde is a good and longtime friend of Morrissey's, and the song is just a great song, period, so maybe it has NOTHING to do with any kind of deeper meaning. But I thought maybe it was worth discussing and speculating on, as it's pretty rare of Morrissey to cover songs that popular...I mean, it's one of the biggest hits of the 80s. So I was wondering if maybe there was some deeper relevance at hand.

And the song is from 1982 ...

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps the cover was just to support her
about the phones affair to Dubaï on the Oct,26 ?

https://dubai.platinumlist.net/even...pretenders-heather-small-and-aswad?show=77348

Morrissey tour started on the Oct,31

https://www.stereogum.com/1969497/p...mera-happy-fans-walks-offstage-in-dubai/news/

https://thewest.com.au/entertainmen...in-dubai-with-foul-mouthed-rant-ng-b88643472z

https://thewest.com.au/entertainmen...in-dubai-with-foul-mouthed-rant-ng-b88643472z

... ... ... ... and all others articles ... ... ... ...

And also that :

https://fr.timesofisrael.com/dans-s...-drapeau-israelien-et-chante-pour-les-vaches/

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

I thought the very same thing. Especially because if you search for the Pretenders and Johnny Marr on YouTube, this is one of the only videos that pops up and the only live one. The poignancy of the lyrics and the fact that there is video of Johnny playing this song with Chrissie, makes it, if not a coded message, then a nostalgic trip to the past, long gone but fondly remembered.

 

[Flibberty]

Much, much more likely that it is Morrissey playing one of his old friend's songs.

In exactly the same way he did with Floorboards and Candle to You.

 

[gordyboy9]

think your looking for something that isn't there.the smiths boat has sailed long ago.people are obsessed these days with reunions and comebacks,well the star wars legacy is on a very shoogly peg after the last jedi.they should have left it alone.

 

[Amy]

It's an interesting thought, but I didn't think it was really likely - until I read this:

I thought the very same thing. Especially because if you search for the Pretenders and Johnny Marr on YouTube, this is one of the only videos that pops up and the only live one. The poignancy of the lyrics and the fact that there is video of Johnny playing this song with Chrissie, makes it, if not a coded message, then a nostalgic trip to the past, long gone but fondly remembered.

and it made me think of Moz trawling YouTube after a few beers and perhaps coming across it for some reason. In 'Autobiography', he seemed to take a bit of perverse glee in Johnny being more or less "cast out" of the Pretenders for turning up late too many times, which seemed like sour grapes. Chrissie was/is still one of their mutual friends though, as was Kirsty MacColl for many years. It's interesting, for sure.

 

[swift eclipse]

I thought maybe this had been discussed before but I scrolled through 15 pages of thread titles and didn't see it.

Listening to the Maide Vale show and I am still struck by his decision to cover Back On The Chain Gang...and I remember when I first heard it, I couldn't help wondering if it wasn't a coded message to Johnny, as the song seems to be about a former lover (or very good friend) who has long since parted with the narrator because of reasons the narrator perceives and articulates as being the fault of outside influences who permeated the insular bond of the relationship and coaxed the former lover/friend away.

Lyrically it's very much in line with how Morrissey discusses, or used to discuss, the end of his friendship with Johnny and the Smiths breakup in general...that he would have gone on forever had it been up to him, but lost the group/Johnny's partnership because of other people getting involved.

It's also interesting to note that The Pretenders were one of the first groups Johnny rebounded with after he dumped The Smiths. So there's that element, too.

And yes, Chryssie Hynde is a good and longtime friend of Morrissey's, and the song is just a great song, period, so maybe it has NOTHING to do with any kind of deeper meaning. But I thought maybe it was worth discussing and speculating on, as it's pretty rare of Morrissey to cover songs that popular...I mean, it's one of the biggest hits of the 80s. So I was wondering if maybe there was some deeper relevance at hand.

This is an interesting question and I can see that you have put a lot of thought into it. I was also reminded of the Pretenders/Marr connection when I heard this cover. Morrissey is obviously a complex person with attendant actions that have meaning beyond the surface so what you propose is more than quite possible in my opinion. You make a good case. I think this cover might be a "dig" at Johnny in some way. I don't think Moz does anything without a purpose that serves himself. The one consideration would be that I can't recall who these people are that you say Moz believed got involved or permeated the group to cause Johnny to leave. Of course, there was the NME, but that was after Johnny had taken off to L.A.
I suppose that the generally accepted belief is that Marr wasn't totally dead set on quitting when he went to L.A. but as soon as the NME ran their story he decided that this was as good a time as any to move on and Morrissey believed the press and just went with it as well. Can you clarify what you meant further?

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Still sending coded messages to somebody that you parted from 30 years ago would be the kind of shit a stalking weirdo murderer would do. So no, no Morrissey isn't doing that.

 

[Amy]

The one consideration would be that I can't recall who these people are that you say Moz believed got involved or permeated the group to cause Johnny to leave.

In Morrissey's paranoid head, there were several, but I'm not sure if that reflected the reality. We know that he didn't like Johnny's "guest guitar"-ing with other bands at the best of times, nor any producers or managers Marr tried to bring in, and he wasn't involved with Johnny's hard-drinking social life and partying. I think he felt jealous and isolated and perhaps thought Bryan Ferry & co were "tempting" Marr to mutiny and chase his own solo career. That's definitely the angle I got from Autobiog, anyway, and from the Severed Alliance.

 

[Peppermint]

Still sending coded messages to somebody that you parted from 30 years ago would be the kind of shit a stalking weirdo murderer would do. So no, no Morrissey isn't doing that.

I agree that it seems odd, but I do find it intriguing. He did, after all, for years after the split (seemingly) write a blizzard of songs about Johnny (there's a whole thread on here dedicated to this). And we know that he loves a bit of a coded message (with varying degrees of subtlety). If it was any other artist I would say, not a chance, but since it's Morrissey I'm inclined to wonder.

 

[swift eclipse]

In Morrissey's paranoid head, there were several, but I'm not sure if that reflected the reality. We know that he didn't like Johnny's "guest guitar"-ing with other bands at the best of times, nor any producers or managers Marr tried to bring in, and he wasn't involved with Johnny's hard-drinking social life and partying. I think he felt jealous and isolated and perhaps thought Bryan Ferry & co were "tempting" Marr to mutiny and chase his own solo career. That's definitely the angle I got from Autobiog, anyway, and from the Severed Alliance.

All true, Amy. Thanks for the reminder. But isn't it funny that Morrissey's "paranoia" ended up being right? Johnny did leave and do all that stuff. Maybe it was less paranoia and more of a self fulfilling prophecy. There's a lot of that in Morrissey's life and career. It's also interesting to note that all these years later Moz is more of a drinker than Johnny. Not too mention more sexually active partnerwise (at least as far as we know). Johnny became downright boring as Moz became "born". Stars on opposing trajectories in more ways than one, yet still in parallel by making music. Just not with each other.

 

[Orson Swells]

I thought maybe this had been discussed before but I scrolled through 15 pages of thread titles and didn't see it.

Listening to the Maide Vale show and I am still struck by his decision to cover Back On The Chain Gang...and I remember when I first heard it, I couldn't help wondering if it wasn't a coded message to Johnny, as the song seems to be about a former lover (or very good friend) who has long since parted with the narrator because of reasons the narrator perceives and articulates as being the fault of outside influences who permeated the insular bond of the relationship and coaxed the former lover/friend away.

Lyrically it's very much in line with how Morrissey discusses, or used to discuss, the end of his friendship with Johnny and the Smiths breakup in general...that he would have gone on forever had it been up to him, but lost the group/Johnny's partnership because of other people getting involved.

It's also interesting to note that The Pretenders were one of the first groups Johnny rebounded with after he dumped The Smiths. So there's that element, too.

And yes, Chryssie Hynde is a good and longtime friend of Morrissey's, and the song is just a great song, period, so maybe it has NOTHING to do with any kind of deeper meaning. But I thought maybe it was worth discussing and speculating on, as it's pretty rare of Morrissey to cover songs that popular...I mean, it's one of the biggest hits of the 80s. So I was wondering if maybe there was some deeper relevance at hand.

Well, Back on the Chain Gang does seem to have been the musical inspiration behind Suedehead - compare the opening lead guitar lines. Also, unusually for Morrissey, he actually adapted some of the vocal melody too, the distinctive ahh-ah-ah, ahh-ah-ah, for his own purposes.

 

[Thewlis]

Pretenders covered Everyday is Like Sunday, and he's returning the gift, I don't think there's more to it than that.
However, I do feel that if there is one person who can bring Johnny and Moz back together it is Chrissie Hynde.

 

[Anonymous]

It is more than possible. James Maker was the one who said that it's never the "direct approach" with Moz. He must know because there is this story when Moz sent him a copy of Murder Is Easy by Agatha Christie just to let him know that running on stage during a Smiths gig to perform with the singer wasn't welcomed by the guitarist. Apparently James then sent Moz the song Message Understood by Sandy Shaw.

 

[Anonymous]

maybe he just likes talking about his friend. I hope she suprises him in London and comes out on stage to sing the song with him.

 

[Truth]

I thought maybe this had been discussed before but I scrolled through 15 pages of thread titles and didn't see it.

Listening to the Maide Vale show and I am still struck by his decision to cover Back On The Chain Gang...and I remember when I first heard it, I couldn't help wondering if it wasn't a coded message to Johnny, as the song seems to be about a former lover (or very good friend) who has long since parted with the narrator because of reasons the narrator perceives and articulates as being the fault of outside influences who permeated the insular bond of the relationship and coaxed the former lover/friend away.

Lyrically it's very much in line with how Morrissey discusses, or used to discuss, the end of his friendship with Johnny and the Smiths breakup in general...that he would have gone on forever had it been up to him, but lost the group/Johnny's partnership because of other people getting involved.

It's also interesting to note that The Pretenders were one of the first groups Johnny rebounded with after he dumped The Smiths. So there's that element, too.

And yes, Chryssie Hynde is a good and longtime friend of Morrissey's, and the song is just a great song, period, so maybe it has NOTHING to do with any kind of deeper meaning. But I thought maybe it was worth discussing and speculating on, as it's pretty rare of Morrissey to cover songs that popular...I mean, it's one of the biggest hits of the 80s. So I was wondering if maybe there was some deeper relevance at hand.

TG;DR

 

[Old Mathew]

I think this falls apart when you consider that he also covered "Talk of the Town" a few tours ago. Pretenders are a great band with great pop songs, and he's friends with CH. I don't think there's much more to it than that.