Is the HIG Negative Sleeve on EBay Genuine?

Discussion in 'Marketplace archive (read-only)' started by Ann Coates, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. serious

    serious New Member

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    Yes, it's against their rules and I'm against this rule. Of course they put any efforts to protect their business, please note Paypal is an ebay-owned company. Their fees are outrageous and it should be a private deal between the seller and the buyer if the latter agrees to pay these fees. If the buyer does not agree, he will not bid. But I understand ebay will lose money this way.
    I do not clearly stated "additional PP fees" but someone on this board reported it to ebay, and I know who was.
     
  2. BoyRacer

    BoyRacer Back from the grave

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    In case everyone is too lazy to look these records are currently at :

    SMITHS - Reel Around The Fountain - 2nd withdrawn 7" the number two SMITHS rarity! $796.74

    SMITHS - Meat Is Murder 7" MAYKING test pressing RT186 $588.07

    SMITHS - Meat Is Murder 12" EP MAYKING test press RT186 $191.60

    SMITHS - Hand In Glove 7" with NEGATIVE SLEEVE Mint- the number one SMITHS rarity! $967.47


    As of 21 Sept 2006
     
  3. dallow_bg

    dallow_bg the one he left behind

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    From a comment on the main page way back in 2000.

    http://www.morrissey-solo.com/article.pl?sid=00/12/11/0052201
    (near the bottom)

    As for "I Want A Boy For My Birthday, here is the best starting information that I have: Several years ago, Dale Hebert(sp?) The Smiths first bass player and a sound engineer held an online auction. The auction was for a reel to reel tape of The Smiths original demo sessions. The reel contained three songs including a somewhat different version of "Suffer Little Children" that contained the sounds of children playing in the background. As part of the auction, the winning bidder would also receive a tape containing the full version of "I Want A Boy For My Birthday". To prove the ligetimacy of the song, the thirty second clip was created and posted on the Internet. Rumor later circulated that the reel to reel and tape ultimately went for about 10,000 pounds to someone going by the name Koon (?) in Denmark. So, where might a copy exist today? Maybe someone out there has more information? Can anyone confirm, clarify or have anything to add to these reports?



    Koon.... Koen....?!
    Hmm. Oh, I love a mystery.

    .
     
  4. BoyRacer

    BoyRacer Back from the grave

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    Shit this thread just keeps getting BETTER and Better....
     
  5. norah

    norah Junior Member

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    Hi Fernando,

    I see you qualify everything as a revenge, well don’t waste your time on me:

    1. The Toys_And _Collectables_2005 ebayer, UK based, was listing a warning on ebay because apparently you ripped him/her of for £500 some time ago. Whatever…, you guys fight that one out. His listing is obviously removed upon your request. Please notice all the negative feedback he/she all of a sudden received.

    2. The jonnytwobags ebayer, also UK based, lists from time to time very nice Smiths collectibles. I’m sure collectors here bought stuff from him/her. He/she also listed a warning on ebay against the items you sell. He/she even gave certain details as to why your items are poor counterfeits. Again, removed upon your request (ebay probably doesn’t accept the listing of items one doesn’t really sell, but I believe you’re the expert in all this legal stuff and ebay tricks.)

    I believe I did my contribution by pointing out to the collectors on this forum that this is dodgy business. Whatever, if someone really wants to buy your items, I really hope that he/she is happy with it. I advise anyone who’s interested to make a substantial offer to maybe contact these ebayers above and ask them why they reacted…

    As to the tapes I have, this seems to be really important to you. My advise here is to just drop it and concentrate on your business. I just contacted you because, ideally, this is something that goes from collector to collector. Please notice that I didn’t reply anymore to your last e-mail containing dirty seller tricks. Maybe you also sell ‘upholstered’ second hand cars… Let it be clear, I will never do business with sharks. Just accept it.
    Everything I wrote to you is public, no secrets (by the way, if you’re really interested and want to know more about the Decibel Demos, just read some literature). Usually, if one deals with a professional, one may expect some discretion. Your messages here and your way of dealing reveal a lot.
    As to prooving I have these tapes, I really don’t feel any obligation towards you that I have to. But please do some homework first before you start accusing. There was a substantial article in Record Collector devoted to the sale of these tapes. It was titled: “Heaven Knows I’m Expensive Now”. I don’t understand you think I don’t have these, yet you find it important to mention that Warner Music has contacted you etc. etc. Whatever…
    Any Smiths collector/fan on this forum really needing a proof that I have these, can always contact me. For those who are concerned, I did a hell of a job conserving these tapes.

    As to your accusation that one could make ‘a thousand remixes’ to make lots of money, please read the sentence again but then as a kind person, not as a lawyeresque shark. Firstly, the world is really not waiting for a thousand remixes of Suffer Little Children. This was to clearly stress we’re talking about a studio tape, which needs mixing. It’s a question of terminology. A studio tape is sometimes confused for a master tape. A master tape contains a final mix (from the studio tape). Such master tape is not ‘mixable’. So to stress that we're talking about a mixable studio tape I used this ‘metaphor’. I concluded that mixing this tape makes you feel a Smith for a day. This is the experience of a Smiths fan, not the view of Sicilian mob. I could have found a way to the underworld a long time ago if I really wanted to, but that’s more for cowboys like you. I hope this closes the discussion about these tapes. As mentioned before, just try to concentrate on your items. Pretend I never contacted you. First you used this information to make your ebay listings look genuine, now you’re using it to distract from the real discussion (I invite you to look again at the title of this tread).

    I see you feel uncomfortable that I initially bidded on your items. Let the world know, my ebay profile is ‘vrsvlk’. Collectors probably saw and will see that from time to time I bid on attractive items, but I’m not ‘fighting’ for an item anymore. I already told you I buy a genuine (!) negative sleeve for £500 (that was my offer) any time! I recently sold my copy and I know what collectors are prepared to pay, hence I was very curious what price it would fetch. Please note that I retracted my bid the moment I found out it was fake. Up till now I was unaware of counterfeits but as I already mentioned somewhere else they will appear, given the prices they fetch. The problem is that forgers are getting better and better every day. Believe me, it’s not my sole opinion they’re fake. But if YOU really believe they’re not, then don’t panic as you’re doing now and you will find a buyer.

    Ok, I’m sure you’re blood thirsty and want to kick around again.

    Enjoy the Italian sun, it’s worth more than this.

    Belch,
    Koen
     
  6. Because We Must

    Because We Must Junior the Member

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    Are you planning to share your tapes with us at some point?
     
  7. serious

    serious New Member

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    This guy is clearly connecte to you because I never ripped off anyone, quite hard to do when you accept credit card payments through Paypal. And why did this crrok never left a negative comment. This is a clown (partner of yours) was warned by ebay officially!!! Yes, ebay deleted his listings because I reported him but ebay does not do something like that if evidences are noti provided...and I provided them!


    Another crook and his listings were banned too. Hey Kown your bad game ha sbeen discovered and you can't hide yourself anymore.
    This guy didn't have those records and again is probably connected to you, another fake Smiths collector who does not have any of those collectibles because...
    A. the Meat is Murder 7" test pressing. It's obvious you and jonnytwobags do not know anything about how test pressing work. This is not a regular edition, this does not have have printed labels like regular editions, this means someone then writes track information on the label. There's one or more human beings who do this job. It's clear the catalogue no. has been written by the same hand! There's the same stamp with the date, but there's the A and B handwritten instead of stamped. This may be happened for several reasons, the guy/s who did this job forgot it and someone added it later, theis jobn was done at later time and the A stamp was not available, the stamp got destoyed or the ink was dried and other 10000 reasons. There are hundreds of Mayking test pressings, have you ever seen a non Smiths Mayking test pressing? Not all of them does have the A+B stamped on the label. I even saw Mayking test pressing with the compnay label totally empty.
    So if you ever saw...let's say...a vinyl record without a label on one side you will think this is a fake because one of the 2 labels is not there? This is known as misspressing, if this happens to regular edition, do you think this cannot happen to a test pressing numbered and handwritten one by one vy one or more human beings?
    I'd like to point out the matrix info is identical to the regular edition!
    So what you/jonnytwobags says is a non-sense and you are well aware of it.
    This remember me the story of the Mayking 12" with the white label, someone told this was a fake and you endorsed this version. You crook do know nothing about the Smiths.
    The matrix info of the Reel Around the Fountain is 100% correct and the serrated ring around the label is definitvely there, if jonnytwobags couldn't see it had to ask for a better scan. Biut of course he never did it because he was not interested in this kinda details.

    But now that you acted like Charles Broson in Death Wish (with very poor results since nobody here trusts you), try to answer the questions I and someone else did to you.


    Not to me, but to the many Smiths nuts here as confirmed by the previous posts, not also my posts!

    Ohoh, you do not want I toalk about your so-called collecton. You're so fishy my dear.



    You will never do business with sharks because you try to scam sharks and sheeps. Now I tell you why you contac me.
    You saw our auctions for the 4 rarest Smiths records, I'd like to pointed out that he ACTUALLY SAW the listings, and with high jubilee YOU contacted me to see if we wanted to buy your collection of tapes and Morrissey letters/paintings. When you realized we would not buy from you but only sell your stuff on consignment and when I asked for pictures and more details YOU DISAPPARED. When I revealed your info on a public forum YOU REAPPEARED because you did not want I disclosed details on you. Your scam was unsuccessful, sorry. The proof is in this public forum and on the emails I'm stored. Again I can provide copies with FULL HEADERS to anyone will request them. And the proof you do have NOTHING or you have poor dupes is that you failed to answer the questions of other forum members.


    You not so smart...I read the literature about many arguments, I even know of the Christ's holy shroud, I can read it on several books but this does not mean you own the holy shourd if you email me "I own it".

    TO BE CONTINUED.....
     
  8. serious

    serious New Member

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    Anyone can read my first post, I used the maximun discretion because I mention neither your name nor your country. So it's not a matter of discretion. You area fraid of someone else.


    You do not owe me any proof, but remember you worte in this public forum to talk to the other members who ecpressed their interest in these tapes, you owe it to them!

    Well said mate...I read that article...but I didn't read you name on it. So tomorrow I can start saying "hey guyz, I do own those tapes, if you do not believe me read the article "Heaven Knows I’m Expensive Now”, this is the best proof I can provide". Whatta joker you are.

    Oh privately, you can do that publicly. Sure, because here you are afraid someone writes you are a lie and your stuff does not exist, is not genuine etc... Again you think to be smart.



    MY ACCUSATION. This is what you exactly wrote because you wanted to earn more money, you wanted to sell the COPYRIGHT OWNERSHIP!!!

    it's a matter of copyright!


    Another proof you do know nothing even about the terms you are using. A master is also referred to a reel to reel tape because a master is a mixed or unmixed recording used to do copies. Then you can specify if you have the 24 track tape, if you have a final mix etc... Even a master tape can be a second/thrid/fourth generation tape.


    it's clear you do not want we talk about you. If you have nothing to hide you will not be scared to show your "expertise" and your "collection" to the whole world. I would be proud if I had such one of a kind items.
    Your metaphor was "I sell my tapes (but I can't prove I have actually own them and if I own them where I got them from) and you can even release them, I will sell the copyright". This is your metaphor.


    Your words are like snow in August. You just decided to sell your collection but now we discover you just sold your own negative sleeve. I bet you also sold your other records except for the tapes. Com'on Koen, try to fool someone else.
    I just passed your contact info on to Warner Music, enjoy your future legal issues.
    Have a nice day
    Ferdinando
     
  9. BoyRacer

    BoyRacer Back from the grave

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    If copyright is the main reason for holding these tapes back, why not just digitally post them here on solo so the true Smiths fans can enjoy them, instead of trying to retain them? Should these gems not be enjoyed by the people who can appreciate them? Lets face it, everyone knows this session exists, so why not openly share them?

    If it is money that you are after, I am sure the people who use this site would gladly pool their resources to acquire copies, then openly distribute the sessions to the rest of the fans.

    Just an idea to consider.
     
  10. norah

    norah Junior Member

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    Hello Fernandino,

    Those tapes keep haunting you, don't they. Let's make a deal:

    I'll provide proof I have those tapes, and you will relist your "Smiths" items on ebay without bidders kept secret.

    I don't have the tools now to make some snippets, but I'll do my utmost best to have a result this weekend. I hope you're not thinking I'm going to rent some studio time to record the songs over the weekend.
    What do you think? Do we have a deal?

    Ciao,
    Koen
     
  11. serious

    serious New Member

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    Dear belgian clown, you do not have to provide proofs to me but to the other members. But avoid to do tricks with Cooledit Pro. When you have provided proof, just contact Warner Music, I can give you privately the email address of the music producer who got in touch with me, and sell or loan the tapes to Warner so they can publish them.
    You do not have to make a deal with me but with Warner.
    Something tells me this will never happen :rolleyes:

    Do you want me I relist the records for the third time when you just managed to let them remove by ebay by informing them I was charging for Paypal payments? Remember, I'm on to you and my lawyer is trying to obtain from ebay details on you and your friends. Will see who laughs at last!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2006
  12. serious

    serious New Member

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    In his email dated Sept. 13th Koen wrote:

    "I made a couple of rough mixes myself in a studio in Belgium (where they still had the proper machine to play it). I made one security copy."

    You do not need any special tool! Also an MP3 sample does not tell us if you really do have the reel to reel tapes. If you so worried to talk about this stuff you have not acquired them legally otr maybe are dupes or what else!
    BEWARE OF THIS GUY. Again I'm on to you and I will do my best to get in touch with Dale Hibbert.
     
  13. norah

    norah Junior Member

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    But Fernando, what's happening? I'm willing to provide 100% proof and now you crawl back to your corner. I repeat, if YOU are certain your items are genuine, you will find a buyer. And I'm sure, all Smiths collectors would feel releaved to bid in an open, spring fresh atmosphere, without thinking you may have setup one or another ebay trick of which I'm sure you know plenty of, given all your ebay remarks on this board. Maybe you should post the question here whether people prefer openess in ebaying such items.

    I have nothing to hide. Please provide here in public the e-mail address of the music producer from Warner who contacted you. Even more so, publish the e-mail he sent you. If you do so, I will contact him/her. This is getting so ridiculous, let's play this open (and stop threatening with revealing e-mails with FULL HEADERS and whatever, just publish openly whatever you have remarks on).

    And for the sake of civilisation, please stop your witch hunt. You're constantly projecting your own failures to other people. If you accuse me of having removed your ebay listing, please provide some proof before you start with the execution. I think you have upset other people in the past, that are now trying to pay you back. This person from Toys_And_Collectables wrote in his ebay listing about real mob practices. Oh yes, you probably think I'm a seller of toys and collectibles. Well, DJ Fernando, maybe there's just one Smiths fan in this world, maybe he bought all Smiths records in all countries since 1983 because he wanted The Smiths to be huge. And maybe this forum is the result of one person, setting up all accounts 'talking' to each other.
    Well maybe you are Mike Joyce.
     
  14. serious

    serious New Member

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    Even more scaried now?


    The music producer does have nothing to do with what you are hiding.
    I'm pretty sure he will not be happy if I publish his email address on a public forum with the obvious risks of spamming. Why do you not clearly ask me to provide it to you. He will be happy to hear from the owner of these tapes.

    But if this is a witch hunt you do not ahve to worry!

    I'm publish my suspects as you publish your suspects. But I'm also collecting proofs.

    Wow, wasn't you who claimed a few guys here were my partners?
    Your blatant idiosyncrasies releval your attitude and your world full of lies.
    That's a matter of fact you tried to sell those imaginary or forged tapes including the copyright to me in a private sale and when you was asked to provide pictures and samples you disappeared. Anything about you smells really bad!
     
  15. doctor

    doctor Junior Member

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    smiths and mozz gave us their music to live it,not to argue like this...
    it's matter of a music and not money...
    but it seems,money changes everything
    ....
     
  16. Zenith Nadir

    Zenith Nadir Senõr Member

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    Best thread I've ever had on "watch". :D
     
  17. jdfjmdf

    jdfjmdf Member

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    this kind of thing seems to haunt The Smiths and their fans. There does seem to be a scarcity of circulating audio rarities from the band, is this why?

    This kind if threat is nonsense as Koen has every right to own the actual physical demos, though not necessarily the right to publish the contents of the tapes. Having said that, since there's a cover version on there this would take it out of the hands of The Smiths and their publisher if you were so inclined.

    Koen, just to clarify, the Decibel demos you have consist of the original 16(?) track multitrack reel, which would be unmixed and unproduced? Did you do a security copy onto a digital format?
     
  18. serious

    serious New Member

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    And in fact I wrote it to see if he owns the physical tape indeed. If he does have it Warner will officially release it.

    Warner needs no authorization to release a cover version, they have just to pay the mechanical rights.
     
  19. jdfjmdf

    jdfjmdf Member

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    Serious,

    Could you photographed the markings on the run-out on your Meat Is Murder 12"? It would put everyone's mind at rest as to the authenticity of it.

    I have a genuine copy and can confirm exactly what is supposed to be there (apart from the 'Our Souls Our Souls Our Souls' bit).

    Thank you
     
  20. grlmopz

    grlmopz Junior Member

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    >And in fact I wrote it to see if he owns the physical tape indeed. If he does >have it Warner will officially release it.

    This is absolute nonsense. Warner hasn't released the Troy Tate demos. How on Earth can you unequivocally state that Warner will release a mixed version of the Decibel demos? The more I listen to you rant, the less I believe that your records are credible. Koen is a well-known Morrissey trader (see Thanks section on passionsjustlikemine), so I believe his word at face value. Yours, not so much.
     
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