Is the HIG Negative Sleeve on EBay Genuine?

Discussion in 'Marketplace archive (read-only)' started by Ann Coates, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. Still ILL

    Still ILL Junior Member

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    Sorry I may be wrong about the 12". Maybe it is Mayking without the standard Mayking labels. :confused:
     
  2. serious

    serious New Member

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    I'm pretty sure he's even reading this thread now.
    Anyway forget that " possible"...it's not unlikely but impossible, thanks!

    I may add, something nobody knows, another tape ( a regular tape) exist on which Morrissey (he was not alone though) recorded children on playgrounds and swimming pools and these sounds were used on the Decibel Demos (1 track).
     
  3. serious

    serious New Member

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    Don't worry, we all are human beings and are not omniscients. :)
     
  4. serious

    serious New Member

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    Just an addiiton to this topic....here's the link to the Record Collector page dedicated to the Smiths...
    http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1493/smithrc0620052lj6.jpg

    Please note what I would define imprecisions, they forgot the Meat 12" with the Mayking label. They forgot to mention the two colour variation, yellow/white etc... It should be updated but it's an educational reading. Please note the 7" depicted on this page should be the same listed here www.morrisseymadness.co.uk, A copy auctioned a few years ago and probably purchased by the guy of morrisseymadness.co.uk.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  5. beau

    beau Member

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    My Meat Is Murder 12" test pressing has plain white labels. My 7" has Mayking labels.
     
  6. norah

    norah Junior Member

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    Fellow Smiths fans,

    Ok, this discussion is getting edgy and I feel I have to reply here. I have the original 16 track studio master tape of the Decibel Demos and other tapes that contain e.g. I Want A Boy For My Birthday. Some collectors know, because for some reason I'm selling my Smiths collection, which cost me blood, sweat and tears to build.

    I also saw the mentioned items on ebay and first I wasn't aware of the possibility of counterfeits. I even bidded £500 on the negative sleeve (I was the first bidder), knowing it would be overbid, but this way I could 'follow' the bidding war and see what price it would fetch. I know there's an option in ebay to just 'follow up' the item without bidding, but sometimes I do strange things. Many tracks lead to Rome.

    I even contacted the seller, because he appeared to have access to the rarest. Maybe he knew some collectors willing to buy the above mentioned items.

    After studying the negative sleeve (on ebay) more closely I also got suspicious about the rear cover. All negative sleeves I saw and am aware of have the London address.

    I don't like it that the seller is using my 'expertise' and my collection of extremely rare Smiths items to 'proove' that the ebayed items are genuine. The seller breached my trust by slapping around with my collection. If an item is genuine, there's no need for such hassle to proove it.

    I am not convinced that this negative sleeve is genuine. The Manchester address story doesn't match with the stories I heard from Rough Trade personnel. Please keep in mind that when Rough Trade couldn't pay their employees anymore, a lot of them grabbed and 'stole' stuff. This maybe happened with films for sleeves that were obsolete (e.g. HIG Manchester address), but also for pressing plates etc.

    I am not even convinced that the 7" Mayking test pressing is genuine, although it appears to be fine at first sight. I spot important differences compared to the ones I saw. As for the RATF and the 12" MIM, there's no closer inspection possible. All we have is a picture of a 'white' label.

    Please note that I only expressed my opinion and I don't accuse anyone, but such items are rare and very expensive and one day or another there will be counterfeits, I'm certain.

    Maybe someone is still in contact with Jo Slee. Maybe someone wants to contribute to this thread.

    Viva Smiths,
    Koen
     
  7. serious

    serious New Member

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    You are expressing your opinion but thiis opinion is a clear accusation. I have not used your story, you actually contacted me and we discussed the chance to sell your rare stuff. I tried to respect your privacy and I do not think I have disclosed too much info about you, maybe you did not like I talked about your tapes on a public forum so now 'm exsposed to your revenge. But I avoided to add other details you told me which appear to be quite fishy to me. Now your public revenge is simply outrageous. I will start from the tapes and how you obtained them. You said you purchased from Dale Hibbert in person...well I will investigate on this matter but you told me Dale wasn't even paid for his work so he's the actual owner of the tape and the copyright. From a legal point this makes no sense! I asked for a few photos and you didn't provide them, also do you have a legal agreement? No legal agreement no proof that you even actually purchased those tapes and they could have been stolen or they could be just dupes. You mentioned possible legal issues and you didn't want to sell them publicly in your name. I can provide contact info of the Rough Trade sale rep to get confirmation no films were stolen from Rough Trade (very bad accusation here and you may be sued for this), are you able to provide contact info of Dale Hibbert so we know you actually got anything from him legally?
    Remember you wanted to sell the reel to reel tape to give someone else the chance to "make a 1000 remixes" and make money out of it. How do you think you can sell the copyright on such unreleased Smiths material? You even mentioned you have the Meat Is Murder sleeve hand made by Morrissey, well, firstly you failed to provide photos to prove you own it indeed and how you obtained it? It's quite easy to do a sketch on a piece of paper and sell it as "a Morrissey painting".
    Someone at Warner may want to read this thread and may contribute to this conversation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
  8. serious

    serious New Member

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    And here's another confession of this so-called collector...
    Many tracks lead to Belgium. You placed a £500 bid but you wasn't interested in this item. And what's your explanation? You wanted to "follow" the bidding war but you also admit you could do it without bidding. Com'on man, this is not a strange thing, you was about to sell your collection and wanted to raise the value of the negative sleeve. Well, your confession is immortalized on a public forum and it will be easy to prove your illecit bidding activities to ebay safeharbour.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
  9. grlmopz

    grlmopz Junior Member

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    If Koen doubts your story, then I'm back to my original skepticism. Why don't you put everyone's doubts to rest by posting a picture of the negative sleeve with other items in the background to prove that this isn't simply a Photoshop manipulation? Or, even better, how about a photograph of all four records together?
     
  10. norah

    norah Junior Member

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    Hey Serious, this is a big joke

    This is a forum for Smiths fans, not a court room. It's not necessary to knock everyone who might not share your opinion. It seems you have a severe legal history since nearly every sentence you use contains law.

    My opinion is that these items are fake and so does the majority here, I see. Instead of kicking, insulting and threatening with legal actions, please stay with your own kind, and I'll stay with mine.



    P.s.: I buy a genuine (!) negative sleeve for £500 any time
     
  11. serious

    serious New Member

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    Insulting? Who said the films may have been stolen from Rough Trade? You should assume your own responsabilties for what you write. As to the legal part, do you remember you was the one who inquired me about it?
    The "majority" here (the majority you are referring to of course, which is not the majority) does not even know the Mayking was issued without the Mayking label. So does the Mayking 12" with yellow or white label turns out to be a counterfeit?
    Now try to answer a few questions, do you have those tapes indeed? Prove it? Did you get them from Dale Hibbert. Prove that you haven't stolen them
    and they are not non-authorized duplicates. I understood you wanted to sell them, well this forum is populated by hard-core Smiths collectors, why was you so scared to sell them publicly if you do not have something to hide?
    I do not mind to prove those test pressings are genuine, I can provide any contact of the persons who can prove what I wrote. It's likely that you are unable to do the same. You are trying to do somethin illegal and you are well aware of it!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2006
  12. hansrk

    hansrk New Member

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    i used to work at DPR, german distributor connected to Rough Trade, german branch, to whom it may concern i do have two copies of the negative picture sleeve and they show both addresses. A photo is better than 1000 words. How do I upload pics to the board?
    Hans Keller
     
  13. hansrk

    hansrk New Member

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  14. beau

    beau Member

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    Here is Hans pic. Damn!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. dallow_bg

    dallow_bg the one he left behind

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    Oh the twists and turns!
    Does Dale own the Decibel demos and bedroom tapes, or Koen?

    I think we need FLAC and mp3 proof.

    .
     
  16. Sheridan Whiteside

    Sheridan Whiteside Sweet and Tender Hooligan

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    All of the items for sale from this seller have been removed from ebay. strange.
     
  17. serious

    serious New Member

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    do not worry, I'm relisting anything. Ebay did not like the part of the listing about the PAYPAL requirements. If you charge the buyer for the Paypal fees this is an ebay fees circumvention. This is what I just learned. I talked to an ebay agent and edited out the part related to the Paypal requirements. So the records will be relisted within the next few minutes. I will post URL's. Sorry for any inconveniences.

    Update...
    URL's are
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200028760913
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200028760958
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200028760990
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200028761015
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2006
  18. norah

    norah Junior Member

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    Fellow Smiths collectors,

    There's some interesting commotion going on regarding the so called rare Smiths records seriousga is selling on ebay (negative sleeve, MIM 7" and 12", RATF). Please have a look at ebay item 320030493833.

    Yesterday another ebayer warned the Smiths community for bad practices regarding seriousga. His listing was removed.

    Toys_And_Collectables_2005 and jonnytwobags have warned us already. Thanks guys!

    I myself found this seriousga real crap by disclosing info I sent him. But that's ok. He misused this info, lied, put things in different context, really hilarious. I have learned a lesson here.

    Just beware. It's really odd that an Italian guy together with his German partner (Hans Keller), formerly "Rought Trade associated", come up with these items (e.g. HIG negative with Manchester address). Years and years searching in the UK, and I never encountered this...

    If anyone has questions, feel free to e-mail me at: [email protected]

    Cheers,
    Koen
     
  19. serious

    serious New Member

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    Hi Koen
    yes, that warning, clearly posted from someone connected to one of the two guys who write here, one of these two guys are you, dear Koen. The Smiths "expert" who was asked to provide proof of those tapes but failed to even reply. As to that warning, have you ever asked why those listings were removed, and mine were not removed? it was deleted from ebay safeharbour because I have personally talked to an ebay agent who had evidence that the bad practices belonged to that ebayer who is clearly connected to someone here, maybe you, Koen. I was also told our previous listings were removed because someone told ebay that I was charging to accept Paypal payment. In fact I was very surprised to see ebay removed the listings a few minutes before the end because I was overcharging to take Paypal. I listed the same conditions in the past and nothing happened, ebay is full of listings which clearly state "4% fee for Paypal payments" etc.
    Your revenge is typical of a loser who feels himself like an hunted dog. Are you scared someone discovers you never had any tape?
    Why have you failed to answer to a clear question above, prove you have those tapes with flac and mp3 proof. Oh, probably the guy from Texas who asked for this proof is another of my partners. You're a joker. And remember, you even wrote me in private that you have mixed the reel to reel tape. Show us how well they were mixed. I have proof of anything I'm writing, so who wants copy of the emails sent by this so called Smiths expert can send me a private message. I will provide emails with full headers. His expertise is so high that he placed bids on our previous listings to "better following these auctions" (his own wrods) and he didn't think they were fake. But suddenly, when I mention he owns several tapes by disclosing several details on the ownership issue (but never wrote his name) he, SUDDENLY, realizes the records are fake. Well Koen, show us the Morrissey letters. You said to me you have dozens of letters written by Morrissey, you have several picture sleeve personally painted by Morrissey. Show us your expertise and your unbelievable collection. You want to sell your unbelievable collection? Sell it here! It's not real crap, if you have these items why are you so scared to admit it and send proofs?
    Koen, you should also be aware I was contacted by a well known Warner Music producer about these tapes. The truth about you will come out soon.
    As to the German guy (another partner of mine, sure), he shut your mounth, but of course anything you never saw does not exist. You're a clown.
    I invite the administrator to check who is who in this forum. He has the tools to do it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2006
  20. robert

    robert Same old suit since 1962

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    Depends on whether or not they see it. I used to try to include additional PP fees in my auctions but that stopped once eBay ended my auctions. It clearly against their rules.
     
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